Transit Fantasies

[Anorak]

Originally Posted by gkz

A north shore line doesn't need to be tunnelled necessarily - incoming crazy idea:

What would the travel time of that route be versus the seabus?

[Pinion]

You'll never get West Vancouverites to want a skytrain line - especially at the cost of a bridge lane.

Originally Posted by Anorak

What would the travel time of that route be versus the seabus?

To Lonsdale Quay? Not any faster.

[officedweller]

There would be shorter headways.

[wrenegade]

It would probably make more sense to take Skytrain east from Waterfront Station towards the Ironworkers bridge and then tunnel it under the 2nd narrows. It could then stop at Phibbs exchange (and serve Capilano university), along Main Street, and then to Lonsdale Quay. There are existing rail right-of-ways along 90% of the route (although being able to get access to those is a different story). Alternatively, Skytrain could run along East Hastings, serving Commercial Drive, Hastings-Sunrise and Hastings Park on the way to the North Shore.

[AMTDGT]

Originally Posted by wrenegade

It would probably make more sense to take Skytrain east from Waterfront Station towards the Ironworkers bridge and then tunnel it under the 2nd narrows. It could then stop at Phibbs exchange (and serve Capilano university), along Main Street, and then to Lonsdale Quay. There are existing rail right-of-ways along 90% of the route (although being able to get access to those is a different story). Alternatively, Skytrain could run along East Hastings, serving Commercial Drive, Hastings-Sunrise and Hastings Park on the way to the North Shore.

I seem to recall, our nautical charts of the Harbour show a relatively shallow back across the harbour about 2/3's of the way between WF station and the 2nd narrows bridge.

[AMTDGT]

Thinking about the Broadway Line, and potential choke points in the future, especially if it becomes as popular as the C line.

Broadway Station and City Hall station will become packed with people transferring to and from trains to down town, even with larger train consists and increased frequency.

Why not build a switch and stub at the proposed Finning Station. (like was done for the planned Evergreen line when the M Line was built) In future, a tunnel could relatively cheaply be bored down Main with stations at Terminal, then Hastings turning onto Hastings, station at Victory Square with a terminus station at Granville or Burrard . Maybe instead of Hastings, simply turning along the water front to Water Front Station.

It would keep Coquitlam pax to down town off the the C & E lines. Would give Kits pax the option of transferring to down town at either City Hall, Broadway or Finning

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by wrenegade

It would probably make more sense to take Skytrain east from Waterfront Station towards the Ironworkers bridge and then tunnel it under the 2nd narrows. It could then stop at Phibbs exchange (and serve Capilano university), along Main Street, and then to Lonsdale Quay. There are existing rail right-of-ways along 90% of the route (although being able to get access to those is a different story). Alternatively, Skytrain could run along East Hastings, serving Commercial Drive, Hastings-Sunrise and Hastings Park on the way to the North Shore.

Nah, Hastings needs to have its own line. Put it through downtown and across the Lions Gate, connect it on the east end to a Willingdon Line, and send the Willingdon to Phibbs and Lonsdale.

[BobLoblawsLawBlog]

If there were to be a Hastings and North Van line, this is what it would look like.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...9SdjWRMBmN6bV8

You decide what's above or underground.

[waves]

Bob your map has not been made public so we can't see it.

[BobLoblawsLawBlog]

Whhhhhhhhhhooooooppppssssssi daisies. Lemme fix that.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1tL...V8&usp=sharing

[ssiguy]

I agree with the Broadway extension and rapid transit down Hastings to the Kootenay Loops but over the longer term Vancouver must start looking seriously at suburban rail.

This is similar to Melbourne and Sydney have and Toronto is created with it's RER......all day, each way service running about every 10 minutes and late night.

Vancouver is really beginning to sprawl in the valley and that will only accelerate as more young people seek affordable accommodation which increasing means Aldergrove, Mission, and Abbotsford as even Surrey is getting out of reach for younger people. Vancouver also suffers from a very disjointed employment base which is one of the reasons it has never reached transit ridership levels of Montreal, Toronto, or even Ottawa, and is only on par with Calgary. It's very hard to serve more dispersed populations and employment regions.

It's for these reasons that Vancouver should begin regular suburban rail that crosses longer distances with fewer stations but unlike commuter rail, be all day and each way.

There is a point to where rapid transit ceases to be rapid if the lines simply become too long. Langley may at one point get SkyTrain but the distance to downtown is so great, the train alone would take 45 minutes. Suburban rail with fewer stations but stations at Skytrain means SkyTrain/bus for the shorter end portion of the trip and suburban rail to get to the station. Getting more of the long distance travellers onto suburban rail will also relieve some of SkyTrain's over capacity issues.

Vancouver is sprawling fast and leapfrogging over what's left of the Valley's agricultural reserve. This will only increase and so Metro has to start planning for a far more sprawling commuter base.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by BobLoblawsLawBlog

Whhhhhhhhhhooooooppppssssssi daisies. Lemme fix that.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1tL...V8&usp=sharing

I LIKE IT !!!

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I agree with the Broadway extension and rapid transit down Hastings to the Kootenay Loops but over the longer term Vancouver must start looking seriously at suburban rail.

This is similar to Melbourne and Sydney have and Toronto is created with it's RER......all day, each way service running about every 10 minutes and late night.

Vancouver is really beginning to sprawl in the valley and that will only accelerate.................

It's for these reasons that Vancouver should begin regular suburban rail that crosses longer distances with fewer stations but unlike commuter rail, be all day and each way.

.................................
Vancouver is sprawling fast and leapfrogging over what's left of the Valley's agricultural reserve. This will only increase and so Metro has to start planning for a far more sprawling commuter base.

>> Exactly. And if we start planning rail lines now, development will follow that. IMO. Thankx

[Express691]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I agree with the Broadway extension and rapid transit down Hastings to the Kootenay Loops but over the longer term Vancouver must start looking seriously at suburban rail.

This is similar to Melbourne and Sydney have and Toronto is created with it's RER......all day, each way service running about every 10 minutes and late night.

Vancouver is really beginning to sprawl in the valley and that will only accelerate as more young people seek affordable accommodation which increasing means Aldergrove, Mission, and Abbotsford as even Surrey is getting out of reach for younger people. Vancouver also suffers from a very disjointed employment base which is one of the reasons it has never reached transit ridership levels of Montreal, Toronto, or even Ottawa, and is only on par with Calgary. It's very hard to serve more dispersed populations and employment regions.

It's for these reasons that Vancouver should begin regular suburban rail that crosses longer distances with fewer stations but unlike commuter rail, be all day and each way.

There is a point to where rapid transit ceases to be rapid if the lines simply become too long. Langley may at one point get SkyTrain but the distance to downtown is so great, the train alone would take 45 minutes. Suburban rail with fewer stations but stations at Skytrain means SkyTrain/bus for the shorter end portion of the trip and suburban rail to get to the station. Getting more of the long distance travellers onto suburban rail will also relieve some of SkyTrain's over capacity issues.

Vancouver is sprawling fast and leapfrogging over what's left of the Valley's agricultural reserve. This will only increase and so Metro has to start planning for a far more sprawling commuter base.

I find that most of the sprawl is in the east, because that's pretty much the only direction the city can grow.

As for urban rail, I think we do have to start looking at electric-powered technology if we want long West-Coast-Express trains travelling across the region, especially when it comes to nighttime travel. I honestly do not think electrification will work on our rail infrastructure - there are no strategic locations for any stations.

I really like Sydney's electric EMUs - I have been watching clips recently. The thing I like about them is that they double up as a subway train and that they're all 2-deck trains (which makes up for great space in regards to delays).

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by BobLoblawsLawBlog

If there were to be a Hastings and North Van line, this is what it would look like.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...9SdjWRMBmN6bV8

You decide what's above or underground.

Any Lonsdale skytrain would go down 3rd, not Esplanade/Low Level, which already has train tracks below it. Condos are already set back on the south side to make room for it.

[ssiguy]

Yes, it will require new rail infrastructure but that is obvious but the corridors are there.

EMU {whether commuter type or standard Metro} running all day each way from the deep Valley to Waterfront. The obvious first choice would be the line from Waterfront to Abbotsford with stations at Aldergrove, Langley, Cloverdale, 152nd, Newton, {one in the Delta area, over the bridge to interchange with a Millenium SkyTrain station in NuWest, then Broadway to interchange with the Millenium Eastbound, Expo, and Broadway extension and then finally Waterfront. It provides service with the Valley and express service closer to the city with 2 key SkyTrain interchanges.

Vancouver is sprawling like wildfire as the population grows and the Valley the only place left to build and the only place where anyone under 40 can afford to buy a house. It's time Vancouver got over this "no-sprawl" idea when the high prices make it inevitable, and provide service to where it's going to be needed.

[twoNeurons]

I might extend the Expo line 1 or 2 stops east... but it's not a really easy endeavor. No clear ROW has been preserved for a line east. You're going to have to go deep under buildings in Gastown and the line is currently at grade.

Getting the Expo line over to Hastings doesn't seem like an easy thing to do. In any case, as the region changes in that area, it deserves a station or two. A station in the middle of Chinatown.

A Hastings line IS a good idea, but I think it's more likely that west of Clark it would run along Cordova, not Hastings.

[MIPS]

You're forgetting that because of the LIM technology we can run on grades far steeper than your average train. In theory up to a 13% grade on the MK I's

[ssiguy]

Express691........

You make mention of the Sydney system which is the type to which I am referring. I would not, however, follow Sydney's lead of the double-decker trains. They are great for commuter rail but suburban rail has more stops and is frequent enough to be viewed as a standard Metro-type service. This means people use it a lot more for off hours, weekends, and people with different work schedules.

It is seen as a regular part of the rapid transit network which of course it is. This however results in a lot more on/off traffic at each stop. Melbourne use to have the double-decker trains but got rid of them because they were significantly slower as they required far more dwell times at stations. There are fewer doors and the 2 levels makes un/boarding far more time consuming. They are also quite problematic for people with wheelchairs, strollers, the elderly, and grocery carrying walkers.

Due to this Melbourne's trains are faster and can have higher frequencies and hence actually have the same capacity. Sydney has recognized this and has stated that some of it's new suburban trains will be the single level one's like Melbourne's.

[scryer]

Continued off the Arbutus Thread....

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I'm usually against grade-integrated technology (read: streetcar or LRT) as you can achieve the same capacity and speed with BRT.... but I don't mind this particular fantasy only because downtown Vancouver is sprawling (read: growing more highrises/densifying outside of the downtown core) a little bit out to main street and out to the south. There are lots of housing proposals out to Olympic Village, Main Street, and some in South Granville and I think that having an improved transit system would greatly benefit this area of Vancouver in the long-run.

In my opinion, a streetcar-like system, whether it be LRT or the traditional streetcars; should serve as a more permanent strategy to serve higher capacities of riders than to serve as a rapid transit solution. On the TTC in Toronto, I never would call the streetcars there as reliable as vehicle traffic has a significant role in their timing/movement; instead I viewed the streetcars as high-capacity electric buses that served on roads that would forever need a high capacity service.

[vancouver]

Hello Everyone! I have been reading the Transportation & Infrastructure section for a long time, but I think this is my first post.

I have made a fantasy map of the transit network in the Tri-Cities. I plan on finishing the map and completing all of Greater Vancouver.

Here is a description of the new system and lines:

Skytrain (Thick Lines)
Evergreen Extension (Green)
Extended by one station north up to David Avenue, and three stations east into Port Coquitlam. Port Coquitlam alignment follows Lougheed Highway.

Frequent Bus (Thin Lines)
Light Orange Line
Bus service serving North Coquitlam/PoCo and Port Moody. Designed to connect to Evergreen Line stations. Replaces 188. Frequency: 15 minutes peak, 30 minutes off-peak. Starts from Inlet Centre, goes up Heritage Mountain Blvd, runs east along David, then goes south down Coast Meridian.

Pink Line
Bus service serving the area formerly served by 97 B-Line, and also provides a North-South connection. Frequency: 10 minutes peak, 20 minutes off-peak.

Teal-Line
Starts from Coquitlam Central, going until SFU, and along Hastings until Waterfront Station. Replaces 143. Frequency 10 minutes peak, 20 minutes off-peak.

Purple Line
Bus Service to both SFU and South Coquitlam. Replaces 145. Frequency 10 minutes peak, 20 minutes off-peak. Additional frequency from Production to SFU during peak hours.

Green Line
Commuter bus service to Surrey and Langley, connecting to Braid station. Replaces 555.

Dark Orange Line
Bus service from Coquitlam Central to Guildford. Could possibly integrate with 96 B-Line. Frequency 10 minutes peak, 20 minutes off-peak. Goes on Lougheed Hwy and Port Mann Bridge.

Lime Line
Bus service to Pitt Meadows and Maple Ridge, connecting to new SkyTrain station.