[North Vancouver] CentreView | 73.2 & 55m| 24fls & 17 fls | Completed

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by wrenegade

Onni did their very best to mobilize all the people they could to come out and support the project, there is nothing wrong with that. They asked me (I was unfortunately out of town) as well as asked me to talk to any friends who might be interested. It was a big project with many public benefits for the City. That site is only going to be developed once, it should be done right because it's going to be there for the next 60+ years. Some on council complained that the Public Hearing was hijacked, well, just because the developer actually got people out in support and not enough people stood up to oppose it does not mean it was hijacked. It's really unfortunate, even more so because I'm sure Onni will come back in January with two 180' towers which will hardly seems any different than a 240 footer and a 180 footer from the street (and Stella Jo Dean Park will still be shadowed), the office space will be cut in half (or gone) and I'm sure the daycare will disappear. It will all be OCP compliant and council won't be able to reject it. A handful of people who live in Springhill Place (140 east 14th) will retain a little more of their view and EVERYONE else loses the public benefits.

Very sad double standards....as if the North Vancouver seniors aren't great with mobilizing their anti-development supporters every time there's a major development proposed (like the proposed ship-shaped tower at the Foot of Lonsdale some years ago, which would have given the city a public swimming pool among many of its public amenities!). The NIMBYs/seniors might as well be a city-sanctioned mob rule!

About that city councillor that argued there weren't enough benefits for the city and that what was provided were "trinkets"....well, what do you really expect? As much as they'd like to think it's like a massive Downtown Vancouver redevelopment that can afford to provide more public amenities, it's not (although certainly large for North Vancouver). A daycare plus 12 affordable housing units is a good win. And it's not like more public amenities are "free" at the cost to the developer...these costs are passed down to the buyer, which hinders affordability.

Small town thinking. Very disappointing.

[BIMBAM]

Do you have to live in North Van to go to the public consult in January? I live in Vancouver, but think this is ridiculous and want to go to give some extra voice to the development crowd. I'm in now way involved with the development, I just thing it'd be a shame if this were crushed.

[huenthar]

Originally Posted by mr.x

(like the proposed ship-shaped tower at the Foot of Lonsdale some years ago, which would have given the city a public swimming pool among many of its public amenities!)

Reminds me of Site 8 too. The sad thing is that that proposal really was a downtown Vancouver-scale project with amazing benefits - a swimming pool, a waterfront museum for the Presentation Gallery, a new SeaBus terminal and bus loop, etc. etc..

Well I hope it comes back in January...

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by BIMBAM

Do you have to live in North Van to go to the public consult in January? I live in Vancouver, but think this is ridiculous and want to go to give some extra voice to the development crowd. I'm in now way involved with the development, I just thing it'd be a shame if this were crushed.

There is nothing stopping you no, but you'll likely be asked for your name and address. When councillors hear that you are not from the city they will likely not take your comments into account as much as a resident, but I think anything helps. I am no longer a city resident/taxpayer but I do plan to move back to the city, and I would certainly mention that if I were getting up to speak.

Oh, and as far as amenities, it was more than just a daycare and 12 affordable housing units. Full list below:

- 20% of the units will be built to adaptable design guidelines level 2 (to help those who want to age in place)
- Exceeding CNV green building standards
- Lonsdale Energy Corp mini-plant
- 10,000 sf of affordable housing (as mentioned above)
- 10,500 sf daycare facility (as mentioned above)
- land dedication from 13th Street to provide access to Stella Jo Dean Park
- $1.04M purchase of north-south lane (towards Community Amenity Fund)
- $1M contribution to CNV's Community Amenity Fund
- And although many don't view it as an amenity, the development will also have 78,720 sf of spec office space, not something that is built in North Vancouver very often.

There is no other privately owned site in the City that could provide as many benefits (Harry Jerome and the City's own East 1st holdings don't count) as this one*, not even Site 8 (because it's hampered by height limits and is also partially owned by the city). Failing to maximize this site's potential is very short-sighted.

*Unless we want to talk about knocking down and redeveloping Cap Mall, but I don't see that happening for at least 10 years, probably more

[Rusty Gull]

Originally Posted by jozero

Yup. To me this is a bellweather for North Vancouver. If it passes I believe over the next 20 years we will become the next evolution of a city. If it fails or is the shadow of itself then we will remain essentially a small town thats nearby a large metropolis.

If I were a betting man, I would put my money on the latter scenario. North Vancouver will almost certainly continue to be a small, sometimes narrow-minded community with virtually zero interest in sustainable city planning or economic development. And I don't blame the politicians necessarily. There are a handful of resident agitators who try to shoot down every civic proposal imaginable - and they are very effective at mobilization.

If you compare North Vancouver (City and District) to any other Metro Van area, it is remarkably out-dated - from the proliferation of fast-food restaurants and automobile dealers on Marine Drive to some of the outdated residential architecture up and down Lonsdale Avenue.

If your values skew towards diversity, the arts, and sustainable community development and you are thinking of moving to North Van, I would say... don't.

On the other hand, if your vision of urbanity includes 1950s social conservatism and 1960s urban planning, then I would say by all means...

[Pinion]

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[Pinion]

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[Pinion]

Onni is not even going to bother adjusting the proposal. Wow

Onni intends to quit Lonsdale development

Onni Group, the developer behind one of the most ambitious and publicly divisive condo plans in North Vancouver history, is expected to announce it will walk away from the lucrative Central Lonsdale project, citing "possibly defamatory" remarks made by two city councillors.

In a Dec. 3 letter obtained by The Outlook, Onni president Rossano De Cotiis told Mayor Darrell Mussatto the company intends to "publicly announce within the next 48 - 72 hours that we are withdrawing our application" for the 13th Street and Lonsdale Avenue redevelopment. De Cotiis blamed his company's departure on comments made in council by councillors Pam Bookham and Rod Clark.

In his letter, De Cotiis said the problem "goes well beyond a simple disagreement over the issues associated with the project," and claims the two councillors acted unfairly when they accused Onni of manipulating a public hearing at which Onni staff and supporters spoke in favour of the project.

"We are no longer able to tolerate public abuse from these colleagues of yours," De Cotiis told the mayor, "and are unwilling to continue to go to endless rounds of public hearings until Councilors [sic] Bookham and Clark get their way."

The letter was received by the mayor and copied to council shortly after their unanimous vote Monday night to send the Onni proposal for two high-rise condo towers and one six-storey office building back to another public hearing at the end of January.

A Nov. 19 hearing on the 350-unit condo proposal heard more than 90 people speak over six hours, with supporters of the project outnumbering naysayers 3-1. Accusations followed from council that Onni staff had arrived at the meeting early to add several supporters' names to the speakers list — a move which is not against existing city rules on public hearings, and appears to have been a tactic used by both sides at the meeting, according to Coun. Don Bell.

But De Cotiis also said Onni's problems with Bookham and Clark have been ongoing, writing "[t]he outrageous public comments made by Councillor Clark and Councillor Bookham over the past number of months are not only unprofessional and undemocratic but, in our view, possibly defamatory."

Speaking with The Outlook Tuesday morning, Coun. Clark was defiant when asked if he regretted accusing Onni in council of "bullying" and "hijacking" after the Nov. 19 hearing.

"Absolutely not," Clark said. "I said what I said based on the facts as I see them and my belief is that is not defamation of character."

He continued, "I do believe that the public meeting was hijacked," adding, "the meeting wasn't just hijacked, it was stacked."

Councillor Bookham declined to comment on the letter Monday night and Onni did not immediately return a call from The Outlook.

Mayor Mussatto told The Outlook on Tuesday he's deeply disappointed with the Onni letter and laments the probable loss of not just the 24- and 17-storey condo towers and six-storey office building, but all the commercial space and community amenities that were to come with the 1300-block Lonsdale redevelopment.

"All I can say is, it's been a frustrating process and I'm very disappointed that we're going to potentially lose 10,000-square-feet of non-market rental housing, a 37-space daycare, 80,000-square-feet of office space," he said. "There's no blame, I'm just disappointed we're going to lose it all."

http://www.northshoreoutlook.com/news/182046341.html

[phesto]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Onni is not even going to bother adjusting the proposal. Wow

http://www.northshoreoutlook.com/news/182046341.html

Looks like posturing by Onni. It wouldn't make sense to simply "quit" the project when they already own the site and have spent a considerable amount of time and money already.

[jozero]

As enjoyable as posting on forums are, it doesn't make your voice heard in the right places.

Mayor : dmussatto@cnv.org
Councillor Pam Bookham : pbookham@cnv.org
Councillor Rod Clark : rclark@cnv.org

These email addresses are from the City of North Vancouver website. Send a well reasoned email.

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by phesto

Looks like posturing by Onni. It wouldn't make sense to simply "quit" the project when they already own the site and have spent a considerable amount of time and money already.

It's not posturing. The project is dead. For the time being anyways. I'm sure it will will resurface in a couple years.

Hope Clark and Bookham are happy, pretty much everyone else loses in this deal.

[Klazu]

What a fiasco.

[Millennium2002]

Wait for the even bigger fiasco when a generic cookie cutter townhouse with few amenities included from a cheaper developer is approved by the opposing people on the same site in a few months... then we'll know what their reasoning is when they objected it. (too close to their view, anyone?)

[jozero]

Originally Posted by wrenegade

It's not posturing. The project is dead.

Serious ??

2 people on council get to kill an entire development that would benefit hundreds if not thousands ?

That is spectacularly horrendous.

[mr.x]

Congratulations North Vancouver, you've signalled everyone in the business community that you're, well, closed for business.



In his letter, De Cotiis said the problem "goes well beyond a simple disagreement over the issues associated with the project," and claimed the two councillors acted unfairly when they accused Onni of manipulating a public hearing at which Onni staff and supporters spoke in favour of the project.

"We are no longer able to tolerate public abuse from these colleagues of yours," De Cotiis told the mayor, "and are unwilling to continue to go to endless rounds of public hearings until Councilors [sic] Bookham and Clark get their way."

....

De Cotiis maintained Tuesday that each of the Onni supporters at the meeting had a legitimate right to be there as a concerned resident.

"All of the people who came out to support our project are residents, business owners, tax payers, and voters in the City of North Vancouver," he said.

But in the Monday letter, De Cotiis said Onni's problems with Bookham and Clark specifically had been ongoing, writing "[t]he outrageous public comments made by Councillor Clark and Councillor Bookham over the past number of months are not only unprofessional and undemocratic but, in our view, possibly defamatory."

Speaking with The Outlook Tuesday morning, Coun. Clark was defiant when asked if he regretted accusing Onni in council of "bullying" and "hijacking" the Nov. 19 hearing.

"Absolutely not," Clark said. "I said what I said based on the facts as I see them and my belief is that is not defamation of character."

He continued, "I do believe that the public meeting was hijacked," adding, "The meeting wasn't just hijacked, it was stacked."

Councillor Bookham declined to comment.

http://www.northshoreoutlook.com/news/182046341.html


Talk about sheer defiant arrogance.

Double standards too.... the senior mobs also "stack" and "hijack" the process too. They've done much more than what Onni has done, if this is what hijacking is defined as.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by phesto

Looks like posturing by Onni. It wouldn't make sense to simply "quit" the project when they already own the site and have spent a considerable amount of time and money already.

It would make sense if Onni's sentiment was shared by the other big developers and there was a understanding that all would benefit if they mutually turned their back on the city and made a example of it, for a little while. I don't thin Onni's the only one who has had extra problems doing legitimate business in the city, at least I would assume their not the only ones.

Its within the realm of possibilities as I would assume all the big players talk, and talk allot.

ps That councilor sounds like a total idiot and clearly would not be able to cut it in the really world. His comments are completely unprofessional, and I cant believe people like him are actually in a position to deal with the business community on behalf of the public.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by cornholio

It would make sense if Onni's sentiment was shared by the other big developers and there was a understanding that all would benefit if they mutually turned their back on the city and made a example of it, for a little while.

How exactly would that work? Most NIMBYs would be like "awesome, we beat them." How does that teach anyone a lesson other than complaining loudly can kill good development?

With this and two more stores closing on Lower Lonsdale it's getting pretty bleak around here. At least we still have a few 4 storey wood shitboxes to look forward to I'm gonna go emo like Rusty Gull soon.

[GMasterAres]

They said on the news this morning that Onni has officially withdrew it's application from the city and will no longer be pursuing development. I think it's good because NV council needs to give its head a shake. The optics are so horrible to external parties.

Basically what those 2 councilors are saying is "If you disagree with my viewpoint and find people that also disagree, you are hijacking and stacking things improperly." as though it is completely out of the realm of possibility that a project may actually have a lot of support.

And let's face it, what developer doesn't bring people to support their project to public hearings? I'd bet money those 2 councilors asked citizens while they were trying to get elected to get out and vote. Seems like the same thing to me. Were they trying to "stack" and "hijack" the election by getting their supporters to go vote and support them?

If not then why would a developer asking citizens that support them to lend their voice to the cause be any different?

[biketrouble]

Based on my not-so-close reading of City of NV politics, Councillor Rod Clark's name is usually front & centre whenever there is any kind of craziness going on. The sense I get is that he sees himself as no-nonsense, speaks his mind kind of guy, but basically just comes off as a bit of a blowhard. He'd previously tried to pass a motion to limit the site to 2.6FSR so you know he was never going to vote for this project.

But, that said, 4 councillors voted against this, not just the 2 called out by Onni, and there was some hint that one councillor might change his mind. So for all the noise I have to wonder if Onni is using this fiasco as an excuse to drop a project whose economics are looking increasingly dubious due to softening market conditions, without actually coming out and admitting that.

It's a shame, I liked the look of this project but it might not have looked so great sitting half unsold.

[WarrenC12]

This looks really bad on NV's council, but what do their voters think?

Also, I wouldn't trust the De Cotiis family as far as I could throw them.