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  #61  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Albertaboy View Post
It would be nice to get the support, but I honestly don't expect it from the rest of Canada. That is just the way it is with Winnipeg from the rest of the country's point of view; we are on our own.
The rest of Canada has never had a problem dumping on our grave. So I think its safe to say we're in this all alone.

Stand tall Winnipeg, stand tall..

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Last edited by Only The Lonely..; Jan 28, 2007 at 10:43 PM.
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  #62  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 10:32 PM
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Last edited by sky_Winnipegger; Jan 28, 2007 at 10:35 PM. Reason: double post... sorry
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  #63  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by CorporateWhore View Post
Civic pride is one thing. Banging your head against the wall is completely different. There are so many issues that are working against Winnipeg getting an NHL team, I really don't see how you people can ignore them. This has nothing to do with Winnipeg being a good city to live in, it's just too small for the NHL market. Quantity, not quality.

I would love to see the Jets back, but let's be realistic here. Things would have be perfect for Winnipeg to have a team. Even Gary Bettman used the term "ideal world" to describe the scenario, and that was only after being pushed by Ron MacLean into a corner. But what happens when things aren't perfect? When the dollar is down? When salaries go up? When corporate support is waining? Then what? Do you really think civic pride will bail you in those circumstances?
Well, there are many other cities out there who have "dreams" that are not realisitic... but that is no reason to stomp on them.

I tell you what, just like many many professional sport franchies out there, there may be someone (or a group) who may decide to do this out of civic pride ... and yes loose some money... but that is no different that many other cities. It isn't always about $$ and cents. You may be surpirsed to see how close Winnipeg is to getting a team.

But if we get back to stats and facts... just so you know... the MTS centre is the fourth busiest and profitable arena in Canada and top 10 in North America. The word on the street is that the man/group looking to bring the Jets back are the same individuals who own the arena. In the first 2 years of operations, they have made money on the moose and made millions on non hockey events. If there is an ownership group here with deep pockets who have an emotional attachment to the city and were very upset when the Jets left... and if they can subsidize losses with non-hockey events, why wouldn't they bring a TEAM back. The numbers can work... but regardless, these are the type of guys who will do it because they want to be owners... cause they can... no different then what happened in Ottawa with Eugene Melnyk.

If sports was about making only $$$ and no egos involved or civic pride, then most leagues like the NHL and MLB would have shut their doors years ago...

So if someone rich want us to have a hockey team b/c he gets off on it (just like the owners accross the country... only the leafs make any real money), so be it!!! Ha.
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  #64  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 10:39 PM
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Winnipeg scores pre-season NHL game

Thu Jan 25 2007 | By Tim Campbell | Winnipeg Free Press

WILKES-BARRE, Pa. -- The bring-back-the-Jets crowd might have to put on their elbow pads to get to the front of the line for the next NHL game in Winnipeg.
They'll be battling Leafs Nation.

True North Sports and Entertainment chairman Mark Chipman confirmed Wednesday night that MTS Centre will be the site of an NHL pre-season game later this year between the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Phoenix Coyotes.

"Is that right? How could it be better than that, the old Jets and my Leafs?" said Winnipegger Todd Teplitski, one of the city's most insatiable Maple Leafs fans. "Awesome. I'm going to be there, taking my two boys and my dad for sure."

Asked which team will get his support, Teplitski waffled only briefly.

"How about a few cheers for the old Jets in the first period and then all for the Leafs the rest of the way," he declared.
September contest

Ticket details for the contest scheduled for September have yet to be released but True North and the Moose organization will make such an announcement in the coming days. The game will be an "official" Coyotes home game.

Chipman said Wednesday night that last September's sellout contest between the Edmonton Oilers and Coyotes at MTS Centre was encouragement enough to try yet another such venture.

The Oilers won 5-0 before a sellout of 15,015.

"We heard from the Coyotes during the event and shortly after it about the possibility of doing it again," Chipman said. "I was contacted by Mike Barnett (Phoenix GM) again a couple of months later and he told us he'd like to talk to us about the ability to bring in another game, this time with the Leafs.

"It sure made sense to talk about hosting another one based on last year's success."

The Moose, True North and MTS Centre didn't have a whole lot of trouble selling out last September's game and the presence of the Leafs this coming September doesn't figure to hurt.

"The Leafs are the most powerful brand in hockey and we've got a good relationship with Phoenix and they're comfortable with this," he said. "It just makes a lot of sense."

tim.campbell@freepress.mb.ca
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  #65  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay in Cowtown View Post
I would move a team to Houston or Seattle before Winnipeg, simply due to market size...
Didn't they once think the same about Atlanta, Miami and Phoenix?
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  #66  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 10:40 PM
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City to inherit hockey worlds? Quebec City bid hangs by thread; may be our gain

Thu Jan 25 2007 | By Gary Lawless | Winnipeg Free Press

THE 2008 Men's World Hockey Championship is on the brink of failure in Quebec City and Winnipeg has been targeted by Hockey Canada as the top alternative.
Hockey Canada has given the Quebec City committee a week to show it has its house in order and if that doesn't happen, Winnipeg could be granted the tournament within two weeks of today.

"(Hockey Canada) knows the spectrum of our capacity, they know what we've done in the past, they know our history," True North Sports and Entertainment CEO Jim Ludlow said Wednesday. "They say 'We think we have a solution in Winnipeg. We need a solution, because we are teetering on the edge of a major problem for Hockey Canada and the IIHF (International Ice Hockey Federation) in Canada.' Hockey Canada cannot fail in the men's tournament, the first time it's been off European soil in 100 years. Especially with it coming to Canada, the birthplace of hockey.

"So barring an organizational miracle in Quebec City, if it's out of Quebec City, we have probably the best chance of any community in Canada of getting up to speed and making this work."

Winnipeg is staging the 2007 Women's World Championship, which is on course to be a success. Ludlow says the women's worlds staff could easily be enhanced for the men's event.

"We have the infrastructure in place. The men's tournament is a bigger event but we have the administration and organization to handle such an event," said Ludlow.
Hockey Canada president Bob Nicholson is not sitting idly by waiting for a report from Quebec City, due on his desk next Wednesday. He flew to Winnipeg last Sunday along with Hockey Canada senior vice-president Scott Smith and chairman Rene Marcil for a meeting with True North Sports and Entertainment chairman Mark Chipman as well as Ludlow. Hamilton is also reportedly interested in making a pitch for the tournament.

"Mark Chipman and myself met with Hockey Canada on Sunday of this week to discuss this very possibility, which is our venue and our committee providing a solution to Hockey Canada given the challenges in Quebec City," said Ludlow. "We think we are capable and able to provide a solution for Hockey Canada. We have the venue, we think we have the infrastructure, the administration and organization and the strength of community in Winnipeg to easily provide support to that level of tournament, which is very significant on the world stage."

Winnipeg originally bid on this event back in 2003 only to see it awarded to a combined bid of Quebec City and Halifax. The Halifax portion of the event is in fine order and has deposits for more than 1,000 ticket packages. The Quebec City bid has no chair for its host committee and deposits on just 300 ticket packages.

"To be fair to Hockey Canada, if they determine for all the reasons they're considering that that component of the tournament will not work in Quebec City, I'd like to think given the obvious strengths we have -- our community, our venue, our organization -- that Winnipeg would definitely be the front-runner as the alternative for Hockey Canada," said Ludlow. "If it moves from Quebec City, we are a very, very strong option for Hockey Canada. They're giving Quebec City another swing at the bat, appropriately so, but if that doesn't work out, my guess is, since the tournament was awarded over a year ago, the catch-up has to be very quick. The decision to move will be very, very quick. Shortly after the seven-day window passes or not, Hockey Canada is going to pick its dance partner to go along with Halifax."

Ludlow said the 2003 Winnipeg bid included a guarantee in the range of $7 million to be paid to Hockey Canada. There would be some adjustments to the proposed 2003 agreement, but it would be the same basic blueprint, said Ludlow.

"The tournament has inherent risk in it, but that's no different than any business arrangement," said Ludlow. "A Grey Cup weekend, a women's tournament or a men's senior tournament, it can boil down to an economic issue. There would be considerations to a deal going forward, but we'd put something similar in place and we don't see that as a significant impediment. We have confidence in this business proposition."

Any agreement between True North and Hockey Canada would not push the Manitoba Moose out of their MTS Centre home. True North has asserted to Hockey Canada that should the Moose be in the playoffs at the same time of the tournament, world championship games would be played in the afternoon and Moose games at night on intersecting dates.

Neither Nicholson nor Smith were available for comment on Wednesday.

What's going on?


Winnipeg is being considered to take Quebec City's place as host city for the 2008 Men's World Hockey Championship.


What games would we get?


* Team Canada training camp, Winnipeg

* Team Canada exhibition games , Winnipeg Pool A or B games not including Team Canada. Halifax would retain pool games featuring Team Canada

* All medal round games, Winnipeg

Expected costs -- round robin games an average of $35, medal round games an average of $65

When would it happen?


The event would run May 1 to 18, 2008.
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  #67  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 10:41 PM
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Nicholson knows this is the town for big international hockey tilts

Thu Jan 25 2007 | GARY LAWLESS | Winnipeg Free Press

GARY BETTMAN may not think much of Winnipeg as a hockey market, but to Bob Nicholson, there is no better place to stage an event.
Nicholson is in a tight spot these days with the 2008 Men's World Hockey Championship headed for a messy wreck in Quebec City.

So where does Nicholson turn when he needs a handshake agreement for a bailout? Winnipeg, of course.

Where else could a hockey executive stick out his hand and ask for a guarantee of $7 million as well as a promise for an organized and well-attended marquee international event? All put together in just over one year. Nashville, you say? Atlanta? Tampa? Phoenix? Miami?

Please continue reading now that you've recovered from choking on your doughnut. These places may all be part of Bettman's failing NHL vision, but they don't really register as true hockey markets. Not with real people in seats.

Winnipeg, however, does.
So with an organizing committee unable to name a chairman in Quebec City, deposits on less than 300 ticket packages and a new mayor who just last week went back and forth on whether she wants to be responsible for financial commitments agreed to by her predecessor, Nicholson has some issues in La Belle Province.

Out on the Prairies, however, there lurks a white knight with a beautiful state-of-the-art building and a ticket-buying populace that eats up international hockey.

Hell, in 2005 we bailed out the world junior tournament held two hours south of here. Doesn't even have to be in our country and we'll show up in our red and white, buy all the beer for sale and make the event something memorable.

So imagine what we'll do in our own backyard.

In fact, one need not imagine but just remember. In 1999 we set attendance marks with our world junior tournament. In December 2004 we sold out a pair of exhibition games played by Canada's national junior team. And we're in the process of putting on the 2007 women's worlds with the expectation of again setting attendance marks.

Put simply, we're among the top markets in Canada for international hockey events. So why wouldn't Nicholson turn to us in his hour of need? We'll make it right, and he knows it.

The IIHF has never held the men's world tournament in Canada and it hasn't left European soil in 100 years. So imagine Nicholson's horror when faced with the prospect of showing a globally viewed broadcast taped in a rink with empty seats.

The Hockey Canada czar went out on a limb to get this event played in Canada and he doesn't want to watch it go south. But maybe west wouldn't be so bad. The last team our country sent to the world championship included Sydney Crosby, Patrice Bergeron, Brendan Shanahan, Mike Comrie and Kenora's Mike Richards.

All wearing Team Canada jerseys and playing for our country. Tickets are expected to average in the $65 range for a gold-medal final.

Folks around here will line up for those stubs like they will for free perogies. It's a no-brainer. We'll buy the tickets, get the corporate sponsorships and make Team Canada game-nights memorable.

We'll fill the streets for tournament festivals, host our international hockey brothers and give them a two-week ride they'll never forget.

We are hockey. We know it even if the NHL doesn't. And this will be just another opportunity to let the rest of the world in on our secret. We're Winnipeg, and hockey belongs here.

gary.lawless@freepress.mb.ca
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  #68  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 10:45 PM
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Haha guess just becuase you throw that little wink in at the end it makes it ok for you to take a shot? What makes you think Calgary has more or better fans? there are certainly more fans in Vancouver, as it has twice the population, and there are certainly just as rabid as fans, me being one of them, so lets just leave it that Canadians love their hockey across the county, before this gets stupid.
Probably because we don't get natural ice here, and kids here grow up playing soccer, rugby, baseball, or anything other than hockey, so it's not really in their blood (at least not as much as in Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg or wherever).
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  #69  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 10:49 PM
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  #70  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 10:57 PM
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As far as Winnipeg getting an NHL team, to me it seems like a longshot, and I mean a real longshot. Mainly for two reasons, the MTS centre is too small, (it only holds 15,000), and corporate support. The team would get tremendous support from the 'average joe' fan, but so much of the revenue these days comes from coroprate support in the way of season tickets and private boxes. Corpoarte support is what carries teams during it down cycles and bad saesons.
Unless the Asper family is going to buy up all of the corporate boxes, and a boatload of season tickets there won't be much corporate support.
The test for Winnipeg would be after the team was there for 5 years and the novelty had worn off, as soon as they had a mediocre team, how many 'average joes' are going to shell out $120.00 a game? Winnipeg could probably support a team right now, but long term, seems doubtful.

As for the international hockey tournament, Winnipeg would be a great place to host it, and hopefully we see it go there.
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  #71  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 11:01 PM
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geez...how manty of these threads can there be?...i cant keep up with the arguments....

i cant believe 70 posts in one day on this topic....considering its the topic of discussion every second day in the winnipeg thread and its like the 4th thread in a month to talk about it.

i will summarize all of my posts on this topic.

1. corporate support: winnipeg has the 5th most head offices in canada, including the third highest per capita....it has as many top 500 head offices and almost as many head office employees than ottawa and edmonton combined...corporate support is not an issue....they sold out the luxury suites in 1996 before the building was even started....winnipeg has a large and very diverse corporate base that is largely homegrown and has a commitment to this city far greater than most corporations do to theirs...

2. arena size: a 15 000 seat arena is not too small in practical terms...the loss of revenue of 1500 300 level seats is only 2 million per year in revenues....not substantial at all...the optics of a 15 000 seat arena may be the bigger challenge...one advantage is that the team would own the arena and all the revenues of one of the busiest arenas on the continent....i wish it was bigger but it is not a breaking point issue.

3. ownership: winipeg has potential for an ownership group...the city has a number of very wealthy people who have expressed interst in this including david asper only last week on a national television show (prime time sports).

4. poor jets attendance: average attendance for the jets was only 500 less than the average attendance of the NHL in the 90's....it was a different time then...and the jets were one of the worst teams in the NHL for 17 years, having only 5 plus 500 records and only winning 2 playoff series in that time....they still hold the pro sports record for longest winless streak....comparing attendances from 1996 and today is not valid....even edmonton averaged only 13 000 in the early 90's.

5. AHL support: comparing attendance of the moose in the AHL to a potential support for the NHL is not valid either.....the AHL does not attract the same demographic....i for one have only been to two games in 10 years...last nights game was on the third page of the sports in the free press today, behind 4 articles about the NHL.

6. winnipeg's economy: there seems to be a pervasive feeling that winnipeg is a poor city and that we could never afford to support the ticket prices.....the reality is that economic growth in winnipeg has been 3% plus for a number of years now and has ranked near the top cities in the non-alberta country in economic growth....this chart shows that income levels and disposable income is right on with the national average....winnipeg is a different city than it was in 1996, when the jets left....as most canadian cities are....a decade of strong economic growth across the country has put all canadian cities in better position to support sports teams......a ticket price structure llike that of edmonton or ottawa could be supported in winnipeg...$120 is not the average ticket price in edmonton.




there are many issues that are against winnipeg getting a team back....marketability for the league, public perception and the like, but i take issue with many of the knee jerk reactions that people have as they are based in stereotype not reality.

Last edited by trueviking; Jan 28, 2007 at 11:35 PM.
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  #72  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 11:03 PM
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As a fellow western Canadian, I really do hope Winnipeg scores another team. It seems to me that the league is realizing that the hopes of exanding into the US would bring a bigger TV contract have fallen short. Stick to the markets who brung ya.
I can't wait to watch the Oilers beat up on the Jets again. Ahhh, the memories.
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  #73  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 11:16 PM
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Well, I normally don't participate in these threads... they seem like a total waste of time. But, I am curious... I know other leagues like the NFL have some sort of revenue sharing set up that allows teams like Green Bay (CMA 279,485) to survive. Does the NHL have something similar? Or can anyone explain how it actually works?
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  #74  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 11:42 PM
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Well, I normally don't participate in these threads... they seem like a total waste of time. But, I am curious... I know other leagues like the NFL have some sort of revenue sharing set up that allows teams like Green Bay (CMA 279,485) to survive. Does the NHL have something similar? Or can anyone explain how it actually works?
As always, everybody forgets that just about everybody in Milwaukee and Madison supports the Packers. That means that for all purposes they are a mid sized market team.

Why would the NHL allow expansion into a market whose business plan for staying afloat could depend on taking revenue from other teams? With Winnipeg what you see is what you get. Your going to have the same number of fans in year 15 as you did in year one accounting for market growth. With other non-traditional markets you have the potential (if done correctly with enough time) where you can incraese your fan base many fold. Now if I was commish, and somebody came to me wanting to purchase the rights to an expansion franchise and their business model was to rely on handouts, in the best of times, I'd run away as fast as possible.
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  #75  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 11:45 PM
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I would love to see an NHL team in Winnipeg but as long as that hater of Canada Pukman or Scumman or whatever it is, is in charge of the NHL, it will never happen. He would much rather put 20 teams in American cities where 99.999% of the population can't even spell hockey, can't follow the puck on TV unless it has a comet tail running after it and couldn't pick out a pair of skates in a shoe store window. As far as I am concerned, American businessmen have ruined the game. I bet that not one of them has ever played the game on a winters night on an outdoor rink just for the sheer pleasure of playing hockey or been out there coaching a bunch of kids. If it doesn't have a dollar sign attached to it, they can't be bothered.

I lived in Winnipeg during a number of the WHA and Jets days. Although I have been to games in Toronto, Calgary and Vancouver, I have never seen anything close to what it was like at the games in the ole Peg, especially during the playoffs. There was a true love of the game and a sheer joy of being there watching something that was an integral, enjoyable part of your childhood.
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  #76  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 11:45 PM
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Dear Winnipeg,

Its nice to have dreams, but thats all this is.

Signed,

The NHL.
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  #77  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 11:47 PM
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Dear Winnipeg,

Its nice to have dreams, but thats all this is.

Signed,

The NHL.
You should make that

Signed,

Scumman (also know as Bettman)
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  #78  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 11:54 PM
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Yes blame Bettman. It's his fault Winnipegs coorporate sector did not purchase the team and it's his fault the politicians couldn't work out a deal for a new arena.
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  #79  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 11:59 PM
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Yes blame Bettman. It's his fault Winnipegs coorporate sector did not purchase the team and it's his fault the politicians couldn't work out a deal for a new arena.
I am not saying its all his fault, just that he will make sure it never happens!
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  #80  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2007, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by SHOFEAR View Post
Yes blame Bettman. It's his fault Winnipegs coorporate sector did not purchase the team and it's his fault the politicians couldn't work out a deal for a new arena.

Bettman is only half the problem. Yes, the lack of private investment was partly to blame for Winnipeg's loss of the team. That is why now is the time to find the right potential PRIVATE owner(s) to step up and make the bid. But I still believe Bettman needs to be given the boot; not just for Winnipeg, but for other small market Canadian teams like Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa.

But until this happens, no, we won't be getting a team in my opinion.
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