Panhandlers

[thistleclub]

Maybe I'm atypical, but I've never encountered aggressive panhandlers. Aggressive drivers seem to be more common.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by Pearlstreet

I make the walk to The TD bank in Jackson Square often from Victoria Ave and back. I can honestly say given the reason for the trip I am causious and get bent out of shape when approached by people asking for money. So far, in one year of doing this I have never, I repeat, never once made the trip without at least one person asking me. From reasonably dressed to stereotypical panhandlers.. If you want families and women living downtown, this is a must! I am happy to see this conversation happening here.

OK but of course we can't rid the city of panhandling - it's present in every major urban centre around the globe, after all. And panhandling doesn't stop people from living in places like Ottawa - where it's more prevalent than here - or New York City for that matter. It's a part of city life that isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

And in response the article's reference to aggressive panhandling, I've never experienced anything in the city like that beyond the typical 'spare a dime' request.

As long as you're polite and say 'Sorry, mate' - or perhaps even fire a loonie into their hat - all will be fine. I have seen people - in other places - be brutal with panhandlers and it's not a good strategy. Address them, be confident and move on.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

Maybe I'm atypical, but I've never encountered aggressive panhandlers. Aggressive drivers seem to be more common.

Just last week I was crossing King heading south on Bay and a driver (turning left onto King) both honked and flipped me off without any provocation. I guess I was in his way. People may be shocked to learn he was driving a massive 4x4 pick up with a Dale Earnhardt sticker on the rear window.

[drpgq]

I have actually had a panhandler do the squeegee thing at this intersection. Didn't know that was still a thing.

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Police dealing with panhandling at Hamilton intersections

http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/stor...nhandlers.html

Drivers at the corner of Queen and Main shouldn't be too surprised to see someone approach the car and ask for money. And Hamilton's downtown councillor is still hoping police can fix that.

The intersection is a common one for panhandlers who approach cars, said Coun. Jason Farr of Ward 2. Some tap on the window, which police define as aggressive.

There are other areas in the city where this can happen. Panhandlers are often at Summers Lane at King, or Hess and King, or Centennial and Barton.

But Queen and Main is “definitely a hot spot,” Farr said. And he's wondering what police can do about it.

The issue was discussed at a task force on cleanliness and safety in the downtown subcommittee meeting on Thursday. Inspector Scott Rastin of Hamilton Police Service updated the group on efforts to deal with "aggressive" panhandlers.

The term “aggressive" can be a gray area, Rastin said. It includes obstructing people, yelling or threatening people, or touching people.

“Sitting there with a cup is not technically aggressive,” Rastin said. “But if the person is going out of their way to obstruct you, be bothersome or challenge you, that's aggressive.”

Approaching cars at intersections is “borderline,” he said. “Tapping on the windows could be classified as aggressive.”

Panhandling is not against the law, Rastin said. Police can charge aggressive panhandlers under the Safe Streets Act.

A more common approach is the Social Navigator program, which sees panhandlers connected with social services that deal with larger issues, whether they be mental health, housing, addiction or access to employment.

Since the program was established in July 2011 by the city, police and emergency medical services, 86 people have been “navigated,” Rastin said.

“We've had a very good success rate,” he said. “Panhandlers come to us now and say they've heard about the program and want to access it.”

Farr has been talking to police about Queen and Main for about two years. He suspects the Social Navigator program is the way to go.

“It's on our radar,” Rastin said.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Interesting. I've never seen that in Hamilton. I once had that happen in Guelph of all places.

[SteelTown]

Should be a straight up ban on panhandling. We have by laws that don't tolerate smoking on public parks.

[HillStreetBlues]

There's a fellow who plays guitar most days in front of the liquor store on Dundurn that many of you probably know (the last few weeks, I think he has shifted to Locke Street). I pass him every day on my way home, and usually chat about the weather for a few seconds. I have only put a few coins in his case a couple of times when I've been on my way out of the store, even though I have sometimes even stopped and listened for a few minutes.

My point is, he's a nice guy who is just hoping to make whatever he does, and is friendly and civil to me even though I'm not generous to him. I can't imagine his being "aggressive" with anyone, but he's been fined under the "Safe Streets Act." I suspect that some people interpret a "good morning" as aggressive.

Thistleclub and pete are right, there are other cohorts in this city a lot more aggressive than the few panhandlers. Unfortunately, they're members of the majority, so probably nothing will be done about them soon.

[SteelTown]

I have zero issues with on street entertainers.

[Pearlstreet]

Last year there was one guy who was 'playing' the parking cone as a trumpet while in a delusional state. Great show....

[SteelTown]

lol that would've been entertaining to watch.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

With a ban on panhandling are you not just criminalising the poor? How would it be enforced? Do we round them up every morning and ship them off to labour farms? OK I'm being a tad dramatic here but I do believe it's a slippery slope. Frankly, we've made a pretty big mess of our society and I think we should have to look it square in the eye every day.

As a side note, anybody who's been to a Third World country knows the streets are filled with people hustling to make a buck, selling this, that and the other. Well, naturally, that's illegal in Canada. If you want to sell something on the street you need a license and aside from the expense there are probably lots of restrictions as to what you can sell and where. So, the typical struggling Canadian has few options in front of him: work for minimum wage; go on the dole; or beg for change down on the corner. We've largely legislated creativity and initiative out of our culture, so this is what we get.

[SteelTown]

The same way the city enforce no smoking in parks and no idling.

Out West most cities have by laws against panhandling.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by Pearlstreet

Last year there was one guy who was 'playing' the parking cone as a trumpet while in a delusional state. Great show....

I've seen much worse at parties with 'civilised' people not to mention on university campuses with, well, less civilised types.

For some, the difference between being housed and sober and being homeless and blasted on Aqua Velva is a shockingly fine line.

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by Pearlstreet

Last year there was one guy who was 'playing' the parking cone as a trumpet while in a delusional state. Great show....

If that was who I think it is, he's a friend of mine and used to go by 'the pyloneer.' He's more into electronic music these days.

[matt602]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Should be a straight up ban on panhandling. We have by laws that don't tolerate smoking on public parks.

I disagree strongly. Violent or aggressive panhandlers are one thing but is a person holding a cup or sign really such a big deal? Is it really so bad to have to SEE them?

I've done both panhandling and busking before in Hamilton and other cities across Canada and I'm actually pretty insulted when people suggest an outright ban on panhandling or even worse, busking. Have we become so heartless that we must hide the less fortunate now?

[SteelTown]

I have absolutely zero issues with on street entertainers or buskers.

Panhandlers is a blight on the core that symbolizes a broken system. It needs to be eradicated much like poverty needs to be eradicated.

So matt why did you panhandle? If you don't mind telling.

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Panhandlers is a blight on the core that symbolizes a broken system. It needs to be eradicated much like poverty needs to be eradicated.

As you say, it is symbolic and symptomatic of an imperfect system. The goal can never be to eradicate a symptom, particularly when that symptom is composed of human beings.

You're right that poverty needs to be eradicated, not panhandling.

[SteelTown]

So if we eradicated poverty what's the point of panhandling? Seems like after that it's a substance abuse problem. Which I suspect is the majority of Hamilton's panhandlers.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

^I get what you're saying but, quite frankly, we won't be eradicating poverty any time soon because, well, we're not even trying. There was a brief moment there, before most of us were born, when the wealth we created was distributed much more evenly than it is today. Those days are long gone and they're not coming back, so unless we go Communist tomorrow, poverty will continue to grow unabated until society ceases to function in the way we're accustomed. Perhaps then panhandling will be seen as a decent career choice, rather than the last resort that it is today.

[thistleclub]

I wonder how much money has come out of fines related to feeding pigeons? It's been a decade or so. Surely some violations must be on the books. Also having flashbacks to the anti-swearing proposal.