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  #2561  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2019, 5:04 PM
suburbia suburbia is offline
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Choosing a maintenance facility should be a late stage consideration.
So, which LRT lines have you developed previously?

Joking aside, a maintenance and storage facility is a major installation and absolutely critical to putting in an LRT line.

The Mayor explicitly requested the city staff to look for maintenance facility site options in the north, and they came back with there being nothing appropriate. You wouldn't want to take up something like the prime Aurora Business Park site for something like a maintenance site - it just wouldn't fit.

Anyway, those were the reported facts. If you guys want to discuss about hypotheticals, so ahead, but it is really meaningless.
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  #2562  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2019, 6:01 PM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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What I mean is, cities don't decide the route of transit lines primarily on where maintenance facilities are, they (should) decide them based on where the best ridership lies. Who knows how much effort they put into finding a facility, given how flawed the entire decision making process has been. If the only place we can afford to build a facility is in an industrial wasteland, and that means we have to build a mass transit line mostly through industrial wasteland, perhaps we need to question whether the line is feasible?

I agree I'd rather be talking about stuff that isn't hypothetical, but given that we haven't received any interesting information on the project for about 2 years, there's little else to talk about.
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  #2563  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2019, 6:21 PM
outoftheice outoftheice is offline
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One thing of interest is that the city put out their request for pre-qualification for bidders on the Green Line LRVs this week. My guess is it will be the usual suspects like Siemens and Bombardier but this is the first real steps in tendering the project. A decision on LRVs should be made by the fall.
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  #2564  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2019, 6:32 PM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Do we know how many they are ordering?
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  #2565  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2019, 7:21 PM
accord1999 accord1999 is online now
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Do we know how many they are ordering?
The original presentation for Phase 1 said 70.

https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings....cumentId=13865
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  #2566  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2019, 2:01 AM
CrossedTheTracks CrossedTheTracks is online now
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If memory serves, complexity of land acquisition was also much greater in the north. Much larger number of smaller properties, and the time to negotiate and/or expropriate would be that much longer, and ultimately cost.

(I'm not defending any such logic; just mentioning it as an apparent factor for the city.)
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  #2567  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2019, 2:24 AM
CTrainDude CTrainDude is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by accord1999 View Post
The original presentation for Phase 1 said 70.

https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings....cumentId=13865
Ultimately it depends on the length of LRVs they decide to order - longer LRVs means fewer cars.
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  #2568  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2019, 3:13 AM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrossedTheTracks View Post
If memory serves, complexity of land acquisition was also much greater in the north. Much larger number of smaller properties, and the time to negotiate and/or expropriate would be that much longer, and ultimately cost.

(I'm not defending any such logic; just mentioning it as an apparent factor for the city.)
Yeah, 300 or so properties apparently. I know I sound like chicken little here but I really feel the scale of construction (and destruction) required on the north side has been massively underestimated. It was easy to just draw a line on a map 5 years ago and say that the Centre St portion of the Green Line can run at grade, but I think making that a reality will be much harder. The idea that we can just keep on building to the north is likely fantasy.
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  #2569  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2019, 7:18 AM
accord1999 accord1999 is online now
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Originally Posted by suburbia View Post
The Mayor explicitly requested the city staff to look for maintenance facility site options in the north, and they came back with there being nothing appropriate.
I think that was just (at the time) private citizen Jyoti Gondek asking Twitter why Admin didn't look North for area for a facility, Mayor Nenshi spotting the question on his phone and asked it out loud.

https://twitter.com/JyotiGondek/stat...40320543825920

And after reviewing the video from the May 2017 meeting, starting at 8:46:22 Fabiola Macintyre actually confirms to the Mayor that it could fit at Aurora.

https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings....a&lang=English

Quote:
You wouldn't want to take up something like the prime Aurora Business Park site for something like a maintenance site
Rough calculations would say that there's virtually no way even 70 acres of land that far away from the downtown core would generate municipal property taxes that would match the higher revenues and operational savings you would get from going NC first.

And I wonder how prime Aurora really is? Despite its good location, the City hasn't done much with it for over a decade. You can't even find the City's current Aurora Business Park page from a Google search. It's last update shows that it's in the "Revisit Aurora project in conjunction with Green Line LRT Program." phase which was supposed to be worked on 2016-2017 and its ASP link goes to Auburn Bay's.

It may be that by protecting Aurora for future development, it actually hampers it because there's not much interest until there's an actual date on when the Green Line gets there.

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Anyway, those were the reported facts. If you guys want to discuss about hypotheticals, so ahead, but it is really meaningless.
If the Administration reports actually provided real facts, such as revenue, operating costs, and scoring between the NC and SE options and gave the City and Council a chance to debate it, as well as showing actual progress in the last 18 months on getting the NC line ready for Phase 2, we might not have people still questioning the decision.

And these discussion might not be so hypothetical if Phase 1 proposals comes back significantly over-budget and the City has to turn to Premier Kenney for more money.

Last edited by accord1999; Feb 7, 2019 at 10:41 AM.
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  #2570  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2019, 8:23 AM
Cage Cage is offline
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The North central Green Line has much better business case compared to Southeast first, that’s why NC got deferrred to phase 2. This is the whacky circumstances for public projects. If you go with your best option, later phases won’t get the same level of support. But if you go with the second best option first, the second phase preserves the better business case for future funding requests.

You guys aren’t seeing the pure politics of the situation. Kenney wants a fight with Nenshi, especially over the Green Line cause the North area is super pissed at getting passed over by Calgary City Council. There is 4-5 ridings up for grabs if the UCP goes after Calgary Council and Nenshi in particular.

The mayor loves a good political scrap, Kenney is only too happy to oblige Nenshi. If you think the political fireworks will stop after the provincial election, think again.

The next city election you will see Magliocca go for Mayor. Its debatable as to whether Keating puts his name forward for Mayor. Nenshi is also recently considering another run in 2021. In any event, Mags and Kenney are super tight. Expect the NC Greenline to be fought over during 2021 civic election. Premier Kenney is going to give a lot of support to Mags and the NC Greenline funding could be a major policy plank.

Every year Mags puts on a major Stampede BBQ for all of Ward 2. It’s also the biggest meetup for Conservative politics in Calgary. MPs, MLAs, Councillors all attend if they bleed conservative blue. Most get introduced and give a quick speech. Last 2 years Kenney has stayed at the BBQ for most of the event. This is guy who’s nickname as immigration minister was “Curry in a Hurry”.

Another conservative angle, there is a stron NC political alliance between Michelle Rempel, Sean Chu, and Paul Frank. Calgary-North UCP nomination vote is this Saturday, and if Paul Frank wins it will be a lock up for federal-provincial-City alliance to get the NC Green Line complete before it gets south of a Shepherd.

But before any new money comes available. Expect at least another 2 years of stalled funding announcements as the province squeezes Calgary a council for more concessions, particularly on the “city building” aspects of the Green Line.
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  #2571  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2019, 10:23 AM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cage View Post
The North central Green Line has much better business case compared to Southeast first, that’s why NC got deferrred to phase 2. This is the whacky circumstances for public projects. If you go with your best option, later phases won’t get the same level of support. But if you go with the second best option first, the second phase preserves the better business case for future funding requests.

You guys aren’t seeing the pure politics of the situation. Kenney wants a fight with Nenshi, especially over the Green Line cause the North area is super pissed at getting passed over by Calgary City Council. There is 4-5 ridings up for grabs if the UCP goes after Calgary Council and Nenshi in particular.

The mayor loves a good political scrap, Kenney is only too happy to oblige Nenshi. If you think the political fireworks will stop after the provincial election, think again.

The next city election you will see Magliocca go for Mayor. Its debatable as to whether Keating puts his name forward for Mayor. Nenshi is also recently considering another run in 2021. In any event, Mags and Kenney are super tight. Expect the NC Greenline to be fought over during 2021 civic election. Premier Kenney is going to give a lot of support to Mags and the NC Greenline funding could be a major policy plank.

Every year Mags puts on a major Stampede BBQ for all of Ward 2. It’s also the biggest meetup for Conservative politics in Calgary. MPs, MLAs, Councillors all attend if they bleed conservative blue. Most get introduced and give a quick speech. Last 2 years Kenney has stayed at the BBQ for most of the event. This is guy who’s nickname as immigration minister was “Curry in a Hurry”.

Another conservative angle, there is a stron NC political alliance between Michelle Rempel, Sean Chu, and Paul Frank. Calgary-North UCP nomination vote is this Saturday, and if Paul Frank wins it will be a lock up for federal-provincial-City alliance to get the NC Green Line complete before it gets south of a Shepherd.

But before any new money comes available. Expect at least another 2 years of stalled funding announcements as the province squeezes Calgary a council for more concessions, particularly on the “city building” aspects of the Green Line.
Keating for mayor? What a disaster that would be. I'm also starting to think the UCP will be a disaster.
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  #2572  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2019, 6:42 PM
suburbia suburbia is offline
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Originally Posted by accord1999 View Post
I think that was just (at the time) private citizen Jyoti Gondek asking Twitter why Admin didn't look North for area for a facility, Mayor Nenshi spotting the question on his phone and asked it out loud.

https://twitter.com/JyotiGondek/stat...40320543825920

And after reviewing the video from the May 2017 meeting, starting at 8:46:22 Fabiola Macintyre actually confirms to the Mayor that it could fit at Aurora.
I believe the mayor had separately asked also (well before that meeting). Am aware that Jyoti asked the question, but it had already been investigated (though they reviewed one more time I believe).

It is not a question of if it could physically fit in Aurora, but rather that Aurora is massively prime. Close to the airport along the Western portion of airport trail / 96th. Existing developments include a good amount of shopping and restaurants including T&T - probably about 20 businesses not including across centre. It is immediately next to the protected creek area and connected to the golf course which has hosted numerous national golf tournaments. The hotel under construction there is almost ready.

I believe the city slowed down Aurora till the NC line timeline could be finalized because maximum potential is contingent on it being an LRT serviced hub. Further, it would be ridiculous to build out more when there is a demand lull currently anyway.
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  #2573  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2019, 6:47 PM
suburbia suburbia is offline
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Originally Posted by Cage View Post
Another conservative angle, there is a stron NC political alliance between Michelle Rempel, Sean Chu, and Paul Frank. Calgary-North UCP nomination vote is this Saturday, and if Paul Frank wins it will be a lock up for federal-provincial-City alliance to get the NC Green Line complete before it gets south of a Shepherd.
It is going north before going to Shepherd no mater who is in. Shoehorning political parties in is just wedge politics. It is not like the Province or the Municipal government are against it going north, and frankly, the centre and left have always been more supportive of public transit that the right and extreme right.

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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
Keating for mayor? What a disaster that would be. I'm also starting to think the UCP will be a disaster.
Fully agree with that. Tolls for Deerfoot enhancements anyone?
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