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  #61  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2017, 1:38 AM
Marshal Marshal is offline
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
I think the right to develop whatever an owner wants should not be questioned by others who never contribute a single penny to the land. If such projects are questionable, like having negative environmental impacts, then professionals have the right to wade in to object. Other than that, without any good reasons, nobody else should object, especially those protesting for the sake of protesting.

Like the person who said she's ok with 15 stories rather than 50 stories...what's the rationale? A tall tower has a higher chance of falling on her little shack a mile away and flatten her while she sleeps?
Don't we live in a free speech country? Developers can always try to do whatever they want, and then must adapt to the limits and regulations of our society . . . effectively our 'free speech' filtered through government. The problem I have is with our formalized public consultations. For most people, public consultation is what elections do. The public consultation we include in the permitting process should not occur because the municipal governments have no proper method of consulting the public. Input through a few meetings just alows the same demographic and interest groups to sound off on the usual points. Its irrational, and the sample size is so small as to be useless.

But, the public, in groups, organizations, or as individuals, can sound off anytime they want on anything they want - within our legally acceptable scope (ie., no hate speech).

Vin, you almost have it backwards. People can say what they want about a project. It's just words. But professionals have no rights to 'wade' in whenever they want. Nor do they have reason. They have no policing role. Professionals . . . I wonder what professionals you are referring to . . . cannot speak freely most of the time. Professions are governed by statute, and most of them, like the Architect's Act, prevent one professional's comment upon the work of another. There are lots of legal repercussions in this that make this censure both practical and correct.

Finally, this notion of who contributes to the land is interesting in that, in construction contracts (including professional services contracts) value that accrues to a property through the work of others (other than the owner) is the key legal means towards which values are quantified. But, unlike your claim, developers cannot do whatever they want. Why? It is because their property is part of the public whole. Indeed, the public surround gives private property a considerable amount of its value. So, by extension, "others who never contribute a single penny" don't exist, because everyone is part of the public and so has added actual value to any property in question. And, to repeat, I think they deserve a voice, but I would stand up for our democratic system and limit that voice to the selection of government representatives at election time. Otherwise, let them picket and holler . . . its just noise.

Last edited by Marshal; Jun 13, 2017 at 1:54 AM.
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  #62  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2017, 3:42 AM
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it seemed to be all new west residents who were against, most said no buildings, they want park space, others complained they will lose their view and others were against more people in their hood and more traffic
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  #63  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2017, 5:17 AM
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it seemed to be all new west residents who were against, most said no buildings, they want park space, others complained they will lose their view and others were against more people in their hood and more traffic
That would be New West Nimbys - they might be related to the North Shore Nimbys. The NW ones got more attention with their previous mayor than they do with their current one.
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  #64  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2017, 3:59 PM
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it seemed to be all new west residents who were against, most said no buildings, they want park space, others complained they will lose their view and others were against more people in their hood and more traffic
I'm a New West resident who's in favour of this project. I would like to see the city require more childcare spots in this project though. That's really my only objection.
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  #65  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2017, 6:01 PM
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Originally Posted by towerseeker101 View Post
I believe that it might be Amanat Architecture, from what​ I could find. (The daily hive credited the rendering to them) The same architect designed the towers right next to Holdom Skytrain Station.
http://www.amanatarchitect.com
Great news. They've designed quite a few Bosa projects in California, but only the Holdom towers here. Hossein Amanat is a treasure.
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  #66  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2017, 8:50 PM
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it's kinda funny I have a friend who lives just off columbia and he always complains that there is no life on columbia and its so dead and quiet down there. He would like to have more people and more shopping choices on columbia to give the area more life. He seems to be ok with the new towers.
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  #67  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2017, 8:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Marshal View Post
Don't we live in a free speech country? Developers can always try to do whatever they want, and then must adapt to the limits and regulations of our society . . . effectively our 'free speech' filtered through government. The problem I have is with our formalized public consultations. For most people, public consultation is what elections do. The public consultation we include in the permitting process should not occur because the municipal governments have no proper method of consulting the public. Input through a few meetings just alows the same demographic and interest groups to sound off on the usual points. Its irrational, and the sample size is so small as to be useless.

But, the public, in groups, organizations, or as individuals, can sound off anytime they want on anything they want - within our legally acceptable scope (ie., no hate speech).

Vin, you almost have it backwards. People can say what they want about a project. It's just words. But professionals have no rights to 'wade' in whenever they want. Nor do they have reason. They have no policing role. Professionals . . . I wonder what professionals you are referring to . . . cannot speak freely most of the time. Professions are governed by statute, and most of them, like the Architect's Act, prevent one professional's comment upon the work of another. There are lots of legal repercussions in this that make this censure both practical and correct.

Finally, this notion of who contributes to the land is interesting in that, in construction contracts (including professional services contracts) value that accrues to a property through the work of others (other than the owner) is the key legal means towards which values are quantified. But, unlike your claim, developers cannot do whatever they want. Why? It is because their property is part of the public whole. Indeed, the public surround gives private property a considerable amount of its value. So, by extension, "others who never contribute a single penny" don't exist, because everyone is part of the public and so has added actual value to any property in question. And, to repeat, I think they deserve a voice, but I would stand up for our democratic system and limit that voice to the selection of government representatives at election time. Otherwise, let them picket and holler . . . its just noise.
What if you work hard and finally save up enough to buy a piece of land. You start working even harder in the hopes of building that dream house of yours on the land. Then due to "free speech", the neighbours come in and say, "We want an empty lot: no buildings!". The City Council listens to them and bars you from building anything. Will you go happy?


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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
it seemed to be all new west residents who were against, most said no buildings, they want park space, others complained they will lose their view and others were against more people in their hood and more traffic
All very very selfish reasons.
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  #68  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2017, 8:56 PM
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Originally Posted by VarBreStr18 View Post
People who objects may reflect the sentiment of potential buyers who ultimately determine success of the project. Developer can developer whatever...
Buyers may hesitate due to various reasons, after all there all so many other locations they can consider all over metro Vancouver right now.
That's why so many areas in Metro Van are losing young people, or that housing is beyond unaffordable. I think people who object are those who live close by. At one time before moving there, these people must be very pro-new-housing. After moving there, they reject everything.
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  #69  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2017, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
All very very selfish reasons.
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
That's why so many areas in Metro Van are losing young people, or that housing is beyond unaffordable. I think people who object are those who live close by. At one time before moving there, these people must be very pro-new-housing. After moving there, they reject everything.
Nimby's also tend to be older people. They want things to be 'like the old days' and for nothing to change. Annoying (and selfish) but hardly surprising.
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  #70  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2017, 3:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
What if you work hard and finally save up enough to buy a piece of land. You start working even harder in the hopes of building that dream house of yours on the land. Then due to "free speech", the neighbours come in and say, "We want an empty lot: no buildings!". The City Council listens to them and bars you from building anything. Will you go happy?
Then you shouldn't have been stupid and bought a lot that you knew needed rezoning.
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  #71  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2017, 3:21 AM
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^^ Way to go off-topic folks.
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  #72  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2017, 7:51 AM
Marshal Marshal is offline
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
That's why so many areas in Metro Van are losing young people, or that housing is beyond unaffordable. I think people who object are those who live close by. At one time before moving there, these people must be very pro-new-housing. After moving there, they reject everything.
Yes, it's the old "lock the door behind me" concept of community. What municipalities hear way too much of is the voices of those who do not comprehend, or more likely, don't even see, that they live in a very big city that is growing regardless of anything.
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  #73  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2017, 8:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
What if you work hard and finally save up enough to buy a piece of land. You start working even harder in the hopes of building that dream house of yours on the land. Then due to "free speech", the neighbours come in and say, "We want an empty lot: no buildings!". The City Council listens to them and bars you from building anything. Will you go happy?
What you are missing Vin is how things work. And the answer to that is somewhat implicit in CanSpice's response. What you describe is not possible. "Free speech," as you say, does not have the influence to prevent an owner from building, nor even the design an owner might want to pursue.

This is how it works: Municipal Government has the delegated authority (from the Province) to zone land under its jurisdiction. By that legal delegation, the Provinces define what municipalities can do with zoning: let's just limit it to use and density. So, virtually every property in a city has a zoning specification. If you work hard and buy a piece of land, that land will come with zoning 'attached.' If you work even harder, you can build whatever you want on your land, so long as it satisfies two things: the zoning, and that it does not require a development permit. If that is the case (and for a house it should be, given that you are responsible for buying land that will allow you to do what you want), the municipality cannot refuse you a building permit. In such cases, government's only real role is through the City Building Department, governing the building code, work safety, etc.

The troubles and trickiness arise when an owner wishes to build something that does not fit the zoning, or requires a development permit. Once an owner asks the city for a zoning change or DP, then the gates are open, and the city will rush through them and try to push the owner to do whatever they can get away with. Public consultation has also been triggered, because the municipal government is supposed to act upon the public good - as they see it, or as they try to define it.

Cities have built public consultation into their process because it is a tool that a) provides them cover as a definer of the public good, and b) can be manipulated to justify their actions. The last point is why they never try to develop sophisticated tools to actually gauge public opinion across the full spectrum. Anonymity allows me to say that all of this has evolved such that municipalities exercise more power over more things than was ever intended; and, as the layers of political and bureaucratic process have accumulated over many decades, it has all become more than a little crooked. Within the industry, no one is willing to challenge this state of affairs, leaving a crooked system in the hands of, too often, dimwit city councils.

Ahhh. I always like getting that off my chest. I can't count the number of times I have been in such sessions of complaint with other architects, engineers, and developers.

Last edited by Marshal; Jun 14, 2017 at 8:22 AM.
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  #74  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2017, 4:25 PM
Caliplanner1 Caliplanner1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Marshal View Post
What you are missing Vin is how things work. And the answer to that is somewhat implicit in CanSpice's response. What you describe is not possible. "Free speech," as you say, does not have the influence to prevent an owner from building, nor even the design an owner might want to pursue.

This is how it works: Municipal Government has the delegated authority (from the Province) to zone land under its jurisdiction. By that legal delegation, the Provinces define what municipalities can do with zoning: let's just limit it to use and density. So, virtually every property in a city has a zoning specification. If you work hard and buy a piece of land, that land will come with zoning 'attached.' If you work even harder, you can build whatever you want on your land, so long as it satisfies two things: the zoning, and that it does not require a development permit. If that is the case (and for a house it should be, given that you are responsible for buying land that will allow you to do what you want), the municipality cannot refuse you a building permit. In such cases, government's only real role is through the City Building Department, governing the building code, work safety, etc.

The troubles and trickiness arise when an owner wishes to build something that does not fit the zoning, or requires a development permit. Once an owner asks the city for a zoning change or DP, then the gates are open, and the city will rush through them and try to push the owner to do whatever they can get away with. Public consultation has also been triggered, because the municipal government is supposed to act upon the public good - as they see it, or as they try to define it.

Cities have built public consultation into their process because it is a tool that a) provides them cover as a definer of the public good, and b) can be manipulated to justify their actions. The last point is why they never try to develop sophisticated tools to actually gauge public opinion across the full spectrum. Anonymity allows me to say that all of this has evolved such that municipalities exercise more power over more things than was ever intended; and, as the layers of political and bureaucratic process have accumulated over many decades, it has all become more than a little crooked. Within the industry, no one is willing to challenge this state of affairs, leaving a crooked system in the hands of, too often, dimwit city councils.

Ahhh. I always like getting that off my chest. I can't count the number of times I have been in such sessions of complaint with other architects, engineers, and developers.
As a former public sector planner I know only too well how politicians/elected officials etc. ignore sound professional advice in order to gain reelection/fodder their political nests/gain corrupt benefits etc. from the private sector,...so the knife cuts in more than one way here.
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  #75  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2017, 10:55 PM
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So true.
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  #76  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2017, 12:36 AM
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Bosa Development seeks support for its riverfront plan in New West


Bosa Development is seeking the City of New Westminster’s official support for its waterfront development plan.

On Monday, council will consider approval of a development permit to allow variances for building height, number of vehicle parking spaces at grade, maximum building footprint size above the second storey and a revised site plan within the zoning district.

“The project continues to propose the same height and density as in the previous report received by council,” said planner Mike Watson. “This is the formal opportunity for council to consider the variances necessary to accommodate the changes to the site plan proposed by Bosa.”


According to the staff report, Bosa Development is proposing to delay its construction start date until after Bosa Properties completes construction of the RiverSky development at 1000 Quayside Dr., in order to ensure that public parking is available for downtown and waterfront businesses. The current timeline suggests that piling and pre-construction works will take place next spring and summer, followed by construction and then occupancy of Phase 1 in the fall of 2021.
From the New West Record
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  #77  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2017, 7:11 AM
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I went to the New West Council Meeting tonight. This passed unanimously.

A couple residents were a little concerned, but nothing big was discussed. Emergency access, traffic. All the usual.
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  #78  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2017, 7:17 AM
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Great news!
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  #79  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2017, 9:44 PM
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Wow, not surprised it was passed, but I expected it to be more controversial.

Good news!
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  #80  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2017, 9:49 PM
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Wow, not surprised it was passed, but I expected it to be more controversial.

Good news!
The rezoning didn't add any new density, and reduced the view impacts. So it wasn't much of a stretch from what was approved previously.
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