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Old Posted Sep 6, 2014, 8:48 PM
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Trevor Birchett Trevor Birchett is offline
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MEMPHIS | Pyramid Arena Renovation

The Memphis Pyramid, originally called the Great American Pyramid and later known locally as simply "The Pyramid", opened in 1991 as a sports arena and the home of the University of Memphis Tigers and Memphis Grizzlies basketball teams. The Pyramid also hosted various concerts and other performances through it's heyday. However, in 2004, the FedExForum opened nearby as a replacement for the Pyramid, and became the home to the Grizzlies, Tigers, and all major concerts and performances. The Pyramid saw a slow decrease in use through the mid-2000s, with the last concert being performed on February 3, 2007.

After it's closure, many ideas were presented to renovate the Pyramid. These included a casino (illegal in Tennessee), indoor amusement park, and even a branch of the Smithsonian. All of these ideas failed for one reason or another.

Eventually, rumors began to buzz of a possible renovation into a Bass Pro Shops "megastore". The rumors were confirmed by Bass Pro when they signed a 55-year lease of the building on June 30, 2010.

Not much progress was made until around 2012, when the inside of the Pyramid was gutted and Bass Pro began work.

Plans for Bass Pro at the Pyramid include a retail store, hotel, restaurants, and an observation deck at the top. The store is expected to open in December of this year.

(More Pyramid History)

RENDERINGS:

(Wikipedia)


(The Commercial Appeal)


(Tinypic - Unknown original source)

"A look inside Bass Pro's Pyramid plans" (MBJ) - June 21, 2012

"Bass Pro gives a glimpse of the Pyramid (Video)" (MBJ) - February 18, 2014

"Bill Dance discusses his part in the Bass Pro Pyramid project (Video)" (MBJ) - February 19, 2014

"Contractor pulls $26.3M permit for Bass Pro Pyramid hotel (Video)" (MBJ) - August 6, 2014

"Bass Pro's Pyramid taking shape" (The Commercial Appeal) - September 4, 2014

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pyramid Progress Update - September 6, 2014

After a few news reports about recent progress at the Pyramid came out yesterday, I decided to go down for myself and have a look. I was impressed with the recent work! Here's some pictures from this morning.

(Future) Bass Pro Drive surprisingly already making progress:


More Bass Pro Drive work, you can also see work going on at the top of the Pyramid, likely constructing the observation deck:




North face of the Pyramid:


Construction entrance on the north end:


Entire north side of the Pyramid:


Another look at the work on the south side of the observation deck:


And last but definitely not least...the main, south entrance is making major progress!

Last edited by Trevor Birchett; Sep 27, 2014 at 7:36 PM.
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Old Posted Sep 6, 2014, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevor Birchett View Post
After a few news reports about recent progress at the Pyramid came out yesterday, I decided to go down for myself and have a look. I was impressed with the recent work! Here's some pictures from this morning.
I watched that particular clip. I got a good laugh out of that old lady saying that people from all over the world would come to the Pyramid.

Quote:
And last but definitely not least...the main, south entrance is making major progress!
^^^^
This should add to our urban clout...


I'm not in Memphis much as of late so thanks for the updates. Keep them coming.
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Old Posted Sep 8, 2014, 6:49 PM
Huntsvillenative Huntsvillenative is offline
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I watched that particular clip. I got a good laugh out of that old lady saying that people from all over the world would come to the Pyramid.
Why wouldn't they? The Pyramid project will be a massive new addition to both downtown and its tourism. It will also be unique and nothing else like it in the US. Once the Graceland area is completely revamped (houses and all) and the new hotel and upgrades are finished, then more people will want to go and spend money and time as long as it is safe. Keep the rough bad areas away from tourist attractions and people will have no reason not to want to go there.

Keep in mind that the Pyramid Bass Pro shop attraction will bring non Elvis fans to Memphis who will more than likely take in a new Graceland experience that will be crime-free.
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Old Posted Sep 8, 2014, 7:09 PM
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Why wouldn't they? The Pyramid project will be a massive new addition to both downtown and its tourism. It will also be unique and nothing else like it in the US.
Is this a serious question?

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Once the Graceland area is completely revamped (houses and all) and the new hotel and upgrades are finished, then more people will want to go and spend money and time as long as it is safe. Keep the rough bad areas away from tourist attractions and people will have no reason not to want to go there.
I said I would let it go, but here is once again another credited piece of information which disputes your opinion/vision/idea.

http://www.memphisdailynews.com/news...emphis-talent/

Nowhere in that article is anything mentioned about "restoring the natural landscape". I would surely think that if the Daily News wanted to take the time to interview the architects who designed the hotel they would at least mention a massive overhaul of the surrounding acres.

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Keep in mind that the Pyramid Bass Pro shop attraction will bring non Elvis fans to Memphis who will more than likely take in a new Graceland experience that will be crime-free.
I agree with you here (other than you trying to imply new by the complete overhaul of the surrounding houses. I just don't see a couple from Amsterdam traveling to Memphis for the sole purpose of visiting Bass Pro Shop's set up at the Pyramid. Hell, I grew up hunting and fishing and still do (when I have time), but I probably won't even visit the Pyramid. You can't honestly think that someone is going to travel thousands of miles for just for that.
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Old Posted Sep 8, 2014, 7:39 PM
Huntsvillenative Huntsvillenative is offline
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Originally Posted by arkitekte View Post
Is this a serious question?



I said I would let it go, but here is once again another credited piece of information which disputes your opinion/vision/idea.

http://www.memphisdailynews.com/news...emphis-talent/

Nowhere in that article is anything mentioned about "restoring the natural landscape". I would surely think that if the Daily News wanted to take the time to interview the architects who designed the hotel they would at least mention a massive overhaul of the surrounding acres.



I agree with you here (other than you trying to imply new by the complete overhaul of the surrounding houses. I just don't see a couple from Amsterdam traveling to Memphis for the sole purpose of visiting Bass Pro Shop's set up at the Pyramid. Hell, I grew up hunting and fishing and still do (when I have time), but I probably won't even visit the Pyramid. You can't honestly think that someone is going to travel thousands of miles for just for that.

Yes it was a serious question. You sounded as if you doubted her.

As for the Daily news article, there was no mention of the landscape OUTSIDE of the hotel's perimeters simply because they do NOT own that property nor do they have a say in what happens to it. The Hnedek Bobo Architects Company is hired to draw up, develop and build the hotel as EPE asked them to. I have since been told by a reliable source (who I will not name because they are in a strong position in Whitehaven community near Graceland) that the plan is for the city to remove the lower class apartment complexes along and near EP Boulevard in the near future (just south of Graceland property lines) and for EPE and their new owners to eventually buy up ALL of the homes in the nearby area near Winchester all the way down to near Raines on the Graceland mansion side of the boulevard. They plan to PRESERVE the land but clear off the houses, telephone lines and polls and fill in the streets to green space that entire area. They want Graceland to be separate from the neighborhood area.

Also to point out something interesting. Their new owner, Joel Wienshanker recently commented on the amount of land that they CURRENTLY own which is according to him 130 acres. It has previously been reported even by EPE that they own 120 acres.

So let's figure this out.

*There's only 25 acres of undeveloped land north of Graceland (where the new hotel is being built) that they have owned since 1994 and Graceland's original property sits on just about 14 acres. That's a total of 40 acres on the East side of the boulevard.
*Without including Graceland that would be just 26 acres total.
*The west side of the boulevard (along Craft Rd) has roughly 78-80 acres total that EPE has acquired since 2006. That makes it 120 acres combined total (which is the number previously reported by the company to media outlets).
*So where's the other 10 acres coming from? You do the math. If you look at each lot behind the hotel's boundaries, there's about a half acre per lot to a few lots being a full acre. It adds up to just under 10 acres out of 19 homes. Those are the same 19 homes highlighted in their site plan.

I'm just saying.
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Old Posted Sep 8, 2014, 8:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative View Post
Yes it was a serious question. You sounded as if you doubted her.

As for the Daily news article, there was no mention of the landscape OUTSIDE of the hotel's perimeters simply because they do NOT own that property nor do they have a say in what happens to it. The Hnedek Bobo Architects Company is hired to draw up, develop and build the hotel as EPE asked them to. I have since been told by a reliable source (who I will not name because they are in a strong position in Whitehaven community near Graceland) that the plan is for the city to remove the lower class apartment complexes along and near EP Boulevard in the near future (just south of Graceland property lines) and for EPE and their new owners to eventually buy up ALL of the homes in the nearby area near Winchester all the way down to near Raines on the Graceland mansion side of the boulevard. They plan to PRESERVE the land but clear off the houses, telephone lines and polls and fill in the streets to green space that entire area. They want Graceland to be separate from the neighborhood area.

Also to point out something interesting. Their new owner, Joel Wienshanker recently commented on the amount of land that they CURRENTLY own which is according to him 130 acres. It has previously been reported even by EPE that they own 120 acres.

So let's figure this out.

*There's only 25 acres of undeveloped land north of Graceland (where the new hotel is being built) that they have owned since 1994 and Graceland's original property sits on just about 14 acres. That's a total of 40 acres on the East side of the boulevard.
*Without including Graceland that would be just 26 acres total.
*The west side of the boulevard (along Craft Rd) has roughly 78-80 acres total that EPE has acquired since 2006. That makes it 120 acres combined total (which is the number previously reported by the company to media outlets).
*So where's the other 10 acres coming from? You do the math. If you look at each lot behind the hotel's boundaries, there's about a half acre per lot to a few lots being a full acre. It adds up to just under 10 acres out of 19 homes. Those are the same 19 homes highlighted in their site plan.

I'm just saying.
Why wouldn't I doubt her? Of course she's going to say that because it will help he business out.

Isn't that what I've been saying?

Anyways, I'm not changing my opinion based on an inside source you claim to have that you won't name. That 10 additional acres could come from a number of places, just as you think it could come from the homes they plan to buy up. Once again, until a master plan is published that actually contains this information it's nothing other than word of mouth that doesn't have much if any credibility.
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Old Posted Sep 27, 2014, 6:03 PM
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Pyramid Update #2 - September 27, 2014

Checked in with the Pyramid project once again today to see if there was any more progress (click photos to enlarge).

Not much was new with the main entrance construction:





However, there was some progress toward the top: The balcony/observation deck has begun to take shape!


Glass removal on the West face(???):


Bonus shot: Pyramid and Downtown from Mud Island:

Last edited by Trevor Birchett; Sep 27, 2014 at 7:37 PM.
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Old Posted Sep 27, 2014, 9:41 PM
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Thanks for the update photos, Trevor.
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Old Posted Oct 13, 2014, 5:25 AM
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Interesting to see Bass Pro Shops setup in downtown, they had attempted something similar in Buffalo before the project was cancelled and became a hockey wonderland of sorts.

I'm not against business development, but hunting and sportsmens' paradise in the middle of a downtown district? I question how popular these things will be long term, but welcome the development.
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Old Posted Oct 13, 2014, 5:11 PM
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Interesting to see Bass Pro Shops setup in downtown, they had attempted something similar in Buffalo before the project was cancelled and became a hockey wonderland of sorts.

I'm not against business development, but hunting and sportsmens' paradise in the middle of a downtown district? I question how popular these things will be long term, but welcome the development.
Really? Surely you're aware of how Bass Pro Shop and Cabela's bilk taxpayers out of millions of dollars in subsidies at literally. every. single. store.

It's sad that having one of these stores in your community is seen as a crowning achievement for conservative cities and towns across the heartland when their very business model goes against the basic tenets of fiscal responsibility.

The cost to open one of these stores isn't going down, but there are definitely declining returns - the more stores open up, the less people will travel to get to one. It's disappointing that a great city like Memphis could not find a better use for its most distinctive building.
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Old Posted Oct 15, 2014, 6:01 AM
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To be honest I don't keep up with Bass Pro Shops at all. It isn't my forte, I just don't think it makes sense to have one in a downtown district from a culture/lifestyle perspective. Fishing and hunting isn't exactly what downtown residents are into. I'm more familiar with how Buffalo tried and tried and tried to draw one to its downtown, but thankfully that project fell through and something better came along.

I'm not against business development in a general sense is what I'm saying, I have no clue what dealing goes on behind closed doors to get these stores where they are. If it is indeed a lot of corporate welfare, I'd tend to be against it for this type of store.

Re: conservative, Memphis isn't exactly a conservative city. Neither is Buffalo. Bass Pro Shops is courting anyone it can, I don't think it relies on political ideology. I suppose one thing that benefits the store is that Memphis is a very, very compact city for its region. I don't know of another city in the southeast that isn't in Florida or New Orleans that has as many residents cohesively living together, including its suburbs. This may help the store in terms of suburbanites that aren't really that far away will be more likely to venture into the store even if its downtown.

Who knows?

Last edited by Dr Nevergold; Oct 15, 2014 at 6:13 AM.
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Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 4:48 AM
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good observation by the last author. another point, i think it is only fair to point out a very large majority of citizens and a large number of civic leaders, both county and city, did not necessarily want this particular project, but after 4 1/2- 5 years, it was really the best option. harold collins' and a few other council members were so shortsighted that they actually proposed tearing the iconic building down. the decision is made, and maybe all will be well. it certainly won't be the first "screwing" memphis has gotten over the years, and most likely it won't be the last. an argument for what belongs downtown as opposed to the suburbs can easily be both an advancing argument for either for or against.

there is so much in memphis that belongs to its citizens, as far as cu;ture, food, activities. city caregivers need to ask and expect more for the principal core of the city. that investment comes back to the most people. we don't have to have everything that floats down the river and hangs on the bank. we don't have to be austin, portland, or charlotte, in order to be validated as a city. we do need some upgrades in the skyline, and we could get them, if the right people get the positions. the urban vibe has always been here.
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Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 5:45 AM
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Comparing cities is kind of a useless art, especially with US cities since even very large cities here can be terribly suburban. The US has cities with a lot of growth, some cities with minimal growth (and even shrinkage), and other cities that moderately chug along without being fast or slow. Memphis is one of those places that moderately chugs along and Memphis has always had respectable numbers metro-wide. If you add 120-130k a decade that's robust, yet controllable growth. It isn't always about the speed of growth as much as how you organize the resources and the form and function of the development.

Afterall, metro Vancouver only has 2.3 million residents and its downtown has an amazing stock of highrise condos. Memphis won't become Vancouver for obvious reasons, but as long as the leadership is there from civic officials, there's desire in the development community, and you have enough affordable condo housing, it is most certainly possible to get things moving in the right direction in terms of multi-family mid and high rise housing within the context of urban form.
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Old Posted Oct 18, 2014, 1:04 AM
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To be honest I don't keep up with Bass Pro Shops at all. It isn't my forte, I just don't think it makes sense to have one in a downtown district from a culture/lifestyle perspective. Fishing and hunting isn't exactly what downtown residents are into. I'm more familiar with how Buffalo tried and tried and tried to draw one to its downtown, but thankfully that project fell through and something better came along.

I'm not against business development in a general sense is what I'm saying, I have no clue what dealing goes on behind closed doors to get these stores where they are. If it is indeed a lot of corporate welfare, I'd tend to be against it for this type of store.

Re: conservative, Memphis isn't exactly a conservative city. Neither is Buffalo. Bass Pro Shops is courting anyone it can, I don't think it relies on political ideology. I suppose one thing that benefits the store is that Memphis is a very, very compact city for its region. I don't know of another city in the southeast that isn't in Florida or New Orleans that has as many residents cohesively living together, including its suburbs. This may help the store in terms of suburbanites that aren't really that far away will be more likely to venture into the store even if its downtown.

Who knows?
Bass Pro saw a desperate city council and moved in while the getting was good. That's how this went down. The City could either have an empty Pyramid with the tax payers still paying for it, or a Bass Pro super store in there and all of its hideous signage with no bill to foot other than bringing the Pyramid up to seismic standards.

Downtown residents be damned, Bass Pro knows it can draw from the Midsouth with it's easy location. TDOT added an exit for the Pyramid that wasn't previously there. I've said it time and time again that I think this redevelopment of the Pyramid is stupid (I hunt and fish myself), BUT since Memphis City Council and Mayor's office is pretty uncreative we'll have to live with this.

I'd call Memphis fairly urban, but I don't know about the cohesively living together part.

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Originally Posted by Dr Nevergold View Post
Comparing cities is kind of a useless art, especially with US cities since even very large cities here can be terribly suburban. The US has cities with a lot of growth, some cities with minimal growth (and even shrinkage), and other cities that moderately chug along without being fast or slow. Memphis is one of those places that moderately chugs along and Memphis has always had respectable numbers metro-wide. If you add 120-130k a decade that's robust, yet controllable growth. It isn't always about the speed of growth as much as how you organize the resources and the form and function of the development.

Afterall, metro Vancouver only has 2.3 million residents and its downtown has an amazing stock of highrise condos. Memphis won't become Vancouver for obvious reasons, but as long as the leadership is there from civic officials, there's desire in the development community, and you have enough affordable condo housing, it is most certainly possible to get things moving in the right direction in terms of multi-family mid and high rise housing within the context of urban form.
That's a long shot.
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Old Posted Oct 19, 2014, 7:04 PM
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^Memphis is urban in the North American context (in Europe, Midtown would be a nice suburb with its huge lawns and slow paced streets), what I meant about living cohesively together is even the new developments out in Collierville and Bartlett and Cordova and everything out east is tightly packed by southeastern standards. Memphis has more dense suburbia than Atlanta, Raleigh, Charlotte, Nashville, or any city really in this region.

To match the suburban style you have to look southwest, in areas like Dallas or up in the Midwest in Chicago.

In regards to Bass Pro Shops, if its a done deal just take the tax money and run with it. I think its silly to have that type store in that location, but if the tax receipts offset any expenses its overall better than sitting with a vacant structure. The "if" is if this really does pay off, which I highly doubt it does.
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Old Posted Oct 19, 2014, 8:42 PM
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^I guess you'd have to further define what you mean by cohesively living together.

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In regards to Bass Pro Shops, if its a done deal just take the tax money and run with it. I think its silly to have that type store in that location, but if the tax receipts offset any expenses its overall better than sitting with a vacant structure. The "if" is if this really does pay off, which I highly doubt it does.
It will generate activity in Uptown and The Pinch and will send tourists into downtown which is good. It's already paying off in the fact that the City isn't paying for two arenas downtown anymore; that was the City Council's main concern. You'd be hard pressed to find many Memphians who think that a Bass Pro Pyramid is a good idea, but when it comes to the City no longer making payments on the Pyramid, Bass Pro works just fine. I wouldn't necessarily have an issue with it in the Pyramid if their overall redesign didn't look like something from Branson, MO.
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Old Posted Oct 20, 2014, 4:33 AM
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I'll give it one more try to explain this: homes aren't as far apart from one another and they're on smaller lots (a good thing IMO), plus the Memphis suburbs aren't bulbs of population/business in the middle of nowhere with super low dense housing or nothing between them.

I don't know your age, but nothing is impossible when it comes to constructing more urban housing. I'm 32 years old and for the first 25 years of my life, before I left Tennessee to find work and success out of state, I remember Nashville was a pretty terrible city. Sure, it had a nice suburban growth thing like most sunbelt cities, but the city was just awful. It seems just as I left town things began to change and a lot of urban housing began to pop up with some serious investments into parks and public amenities. The Nashville I remember was downright nasty in the late 90's and early 00's, if you stepped south of Broadway, it was all 1950's-like ran down one story block industrial/warehouse type structures straight to the highway loop. No one lived downtown, and when I say no one I mean there probably wasn't even 1,000 people in the entire inner loop area south of Jefferson Street. Even if you included Germantown/North downtown it was maybe a few hundred people more, most of whom were indigent with the city paying little attention to them. It was kind of depressing...

Things are changing in Nashville in a way I've never seen before. How does this relate to Memphis? Well you indicated you think development in Memphis is "a long shot," but again I reference my youth. In the late 90's and early 00's, in Tennessee at least, Memphis was the place to catch up to in terms of downtown residential and lifestyle options. The trolley opened in 1992, the extensions along the riverfront and Madison Ave were added later on and functioning by 2004, Harbortown had been planned and built since the early 90's, South Bluffs were booming with residences. Memphis had opened Peabody Place just after 2000, the Beale St nightlife district was alive as any could be.

We're talking about only 10 to 15 years ago Memphis was light years ahead of Nashville in the urban living department. Between South Bluffs, Harbortown, and the renos and other condo/apartment projects right in downtown the center city area had over 30,000 residents in the late 90's while Nashville had almost nothing at all, maybe a few hundred.

Never, ever say never when it comes to possibility. Just because downtown residential has slowed in Memphis doesn't mean its not going to happen. Memphis got hit harder by the global recession - for whatever reason - and hasn't bounced back quite as fast. Someday, urban housing startups will certainly expand.

And just be thankful Memphis doesn't have these absurd transit debates happening up here in Nashville, I've made my AMP feelings very clear on this and other forums. The trolley system is going through some technical glitches, but it'll be back online soon enough. Memphis may have challenges, but there is little reason for it to not change. It will take some time, and besides it still has a higher downtown population than Nashville even with all these new condos.

Since I've got a lot of time on my hands these days, I just drove down to Memphis last week and spent an entire day roaming around downtown and midtown. Brought back memories for me, and I still get the feeling that downtown is very healthy. The most depressing thing I saw was a completely shuttered Peabody Place. But Memphis still has tons of people living in the urban core and the Main Street Mall still is charming with classic Memphis architecture.

Last edited by Dr Nevergold; Oct 20, 2014 at 5:39 AM.
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Old Posted Oct 20, 2014, 1:10 PM
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I'll give it one more try to explain this: homes aren't as far apart from one another and they're on smaller lots (a good thing IMO), plus the Memphis suburbs aren't bulbs of population/business in the middle of nowhere with super low dense housing or nothing between them.
So that alone makes them cohesive? Disregard the lack of walkability, public transit, and actual neighborhood sense.

Quote:
Things are changing in Nashville in a way I've never seen before. How does this relate to Memphis? Well you indicated you think development in Memphis is "a long shot," but again I reference my youth. In the late 90's and early 00's, in Tennessee at least, Memphis was the place to catch up to in terms of downtown residential and lifestyle options. The trolley opened in 1992, the extensions along the riverfront and Madison Ave were added later on and functioning by 2004, Harbortown had been planned and built since the early 90's, South Bluffs were booming with residences. Memphis had opened Peabody Place just after 2000, the Beale St nightlife district was alive as any could be.
You're mentioning a handful of projects in Memphis, one of which is closed and the other is a novelty for tourists. Yeah, those things were happening in Memphis in the late 90's and early 2000's, but that was 15 years ago. I also wouldn't necessarily call Memphis the "place to catch up to in terms of downtown residential and lifestyle options".

Quote:
We're talking about only 10 to 15 years ago Memphis was light years ahead of Nashville in the urban living department. Between South Bluffs, Harbortown, and the renos and other condo/apartment projects right in downtown the center city area had over 30,000 residents in the late 90's while Nashville had almost nothing at all, maybe a few hundred.
That's not accurate.

Quote:
Never, ever say never when it comes to possibility. Just because downtown residential has slowed in Memphis doesn't mean its not going to happen. Memphis got hit harder by the global recession - for whatever reason - and hasn't bounced back quite as fast. Someday, urban housing startups will certainly expand.
Where did I say it wouldn't? I worked in architecture and planning in downtown for 3 years. I saw what was going on. What I also saw was the disconnect between civic officials and a push toward "urban living". That's why I said it's a long shot.

Quote:
And just be thankful Memphis doesn't have these absurd transit debates happening up here in Nashville, I've made my AMP feelings very clear on this and other forums. The trolley system is going through some technical glitches, but it'll be back online soon enough. Memphis may have challenges, but there is little reason for it to not change. It will take some time, and besides it still has a higher downtown population than Nashville even with all these new condos.
This is ridiculous. That trolley system is a joke. It's a novelty for tourists and isn't very accomodating to people who actually live and work downtown. I'd rather have a city with "absurd transit debates" than a city who is willing to completely ignore transit issues all together.

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Since I've got a lot of time on my hands these days, I just drove down to Memphis last week and spent an entire day roaming around downtown and midtown. Brought back memories for me, and I still get the feeling that downtown is very healthy. The most depressing thing I saw was a completely shuttered Peabody Place. But Memphis still has tons of people living in the urban core and the Main Street Mall still is charming with classic Memphis architecture.
Memphis downtown, Harbour Town, and South Main urban living is pretty solid as well as Midtowns. The University of Memphis area and Highland strip are also seeing a boost here lately.
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  #19  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2014, 6:05 PM
Dr Nevergold Dr Nevergold is offline
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Sounds like you were ready to move, I'm glad you did. Good luck in your new city. I've moved about the past several years and I'm not sure I'll be staying in Tennessee either as this state has lots of problems (I've yet to find a job in the mid state worth staying over even as the region is touted for jobs growth, most seem to be lower wage). I have a final immigration application for Canada that hasn't had a decision come back yet (I'm hoping a decision by December). It will likely be my last attempt to move to Canada and Toronto. We don't always get what we want...

It sounds like what you're frustrated with is typical American development (not unique to Memphis) that is characteristic of most cities. The trolley actually is a decent central city local circulation system (it isn't a joke at all, that is your opinion), and Memphis is having the exact same discussions to bring BRT-like services to other corridors just as other cities are. You can only do so much in a typical American environment where few people utilize transit. My hope is that Memphis gets modern light rail vehicles to replace the vintage ones, it would make the system run slightly faster.

BTW, I'm aware Peabody Place closed. I think I had mentioned it, and mentioned that it I'm sad it couldn't sustain. I also mentioned the city is facing some current challenges, challenges that absolutely can be overcome in time. Being honest about challenges and not giving into them is the best attitude to have. Like I said, I remember when Memphis was the go-to place for urban development in this state, a time not so long ago.

This is America bud, cities aren't that urban and where it is urban it is typically not affordable for most people to live there. When you view per capita incomes on a metro or zip code level then you see how much housing costs, I'm amazed as many people live in cities as they do, our system is so stacked against urban living its not even funny. This is a constant complaint I have had for years, I'm not convinced our current model of capitalism is working that well, it seems all we do is build playgrounds for wealthier people and everyone else has to buy a far out suburban home. Does that mean I'm a commie? No, I just think within the context of a market economy we can do a lot better to build affordable urban housing with transit. It does seem impossible at times, but never say never.

I was pretty clear about what I meant with cohesive and its not worth repeating... Relax a bit, you are trying to make more out of it than needs to be. I never said it was urban utopia from Collierville to Downtown, I said people live closer together on smaller lots than southeastern peer cities. That's 100% accurate.

FWIW, I lived for nearly 5 years in a city more economically depressed than Memphis with a shrinking metro population, not just a city with challenges. Buffalo was an interesting city to experience, and its more interesting seeing such a challenged area sit next to one of North America's fastest growing in southern Ontario. But even there, the central city is seeing some revitalization after years of nothing going on. Memphis is hardly that down and out... It has been steadily growing for most all of its history, it is how you organize that growth that makes it a better place.

Last edited by Dr Nevergold; Oct 20, 2014 at 7:05 PM.
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  #20  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 12:08 AM
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arkitekte arkitekte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Nevergold View Post
It sounds like what you're frustrated with is typical American development (not unique to Memphis) that is characteristic of most cities. The trolley actually is a decent central city local circulation system (it isn't a joke at all, that is your opinion), and Memphis is having the exact same discussions to bring BRT-like services to other corridors just as other cities are. You can only do so much in a typical American environment where few people utilize transit. My hope is that Memphis gets modern light rail vehicles to replace the vintage ones, it would make the system run slightly faster.
I wouldn't call a trolley system whose routes serve Census tracks with a population totaling less that 20,000 with a total route length of roughly 6.5 miles a "decent central city local circulation system". A downtown system that somewhat adequately moves tourists and downtown workers at lunch? Yes. The lack of proper maintenance that led to two trolleys catching on fire in less than a year goes a long way in saying where MATA's priorities are with the trolley system.

If Memphis was having the exact same discussion with BRT as Nashville or other cities we would see similar studies and route maps. If you've come across these online, please post them.

The Madison route, while usually empty is the one that I think holds the most potential if it was extended to Overton Square and down to Cooper-Young like the original trolleys were. That's the line that I too would like to see modern street cars. I think that the historic trolleys should remain on the Main Street and Riverside loop (that is my opinion).

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BTW, I'm aware Peabody Place closed. I think I had mentioned it, and mentioned that it I'm sad it couldn't sustain. I also mentioned the city is facing some current challenges, challenges that absolutely can be overcome in time. Being honest about challenges and not giving into them is the best attitude to have. Like I said, I remember when Memphis was the go-to place for urban development in this state, a time not so long ago.
Peabody Place mainly suffered due to the lack of residents downtown to continually frequent it. It's still just as convenient to drive out to East Memphis to buy whatever you could have bought at Peabody Place. If downtown Memphis/South Main had 50,000 or so residents then Peabody Place could possibly stay afloat. I think that it would have to have more entertainment than retail though.

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I was pretty clear about what I meant with cohesive and its not worth repeating... Relax a bit, you are trying to make more out of it than needs to be. I never said it was urban utopia from Collierville to Downtown, I said people live closer together on smaller lots than southeastern peer cities. That's 100% accurate.
I'm not debating that point, I'm mainly questioning how you phrased it.

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FWIW, I lived for nearly 5 years in a city more economically depressed than Memphis with a shrinking metro population, not just a city with challenges. Buffalo was an interesting city to experience, and its more interesting seeing such a challenged area sit next to one of North America's fastest growing in southern Ontario. But even there, the central city is seeing some revitalization after years of nothing going on. Memphis is hardly that down and out... It has been steadily growing for most all of its history, it is how you organize that growth that makes it a better place.
No debate that Memphis is growing; it's mainly where that growth is...that's both residential developments and commercial developments.
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