[Halifax] The Vuze at South Village (Fenwick) | 106 m | 36/10/8 fl | U/C

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

You know what is annoying about this area? That long, ugly, useless, windowless, fenced, wasteful blank wall that Sobey's offers along Fenwick.

C2 zoning allows a wall with no windows at a property line, so you get Sobey's and the new Rona on Almon. Horrible design. Hoping to change that with teh Centre Plan.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

C2 zoning allows a wall with no windows at a property line, so you get Sobey's and the new Rona on Almon. Horrible design. Hoping to change that with teh Centre Plan.

So, the plans aren't perfect?

This, Waye, is why we are so opposed to following "plans" like a bible. Just because something is planned, doesn't mean its right.

Case in point, that development near the Martello tower that was only what, like 8 stories?

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

So, the plans aren't perfect?

This, Waye, is why we are so opposed to following "plans" like a bible. Just because something is planned, doesn't mean its right.

Case in point, that development near the Martello tower that was only what, like 8 stories?

Yeah, but we can't just start ditching the rules because we don't like them—uncertainty around rules, and constant appeals, etc., are widely blamed for Halifax's difficult development environment pre-HRMxD.

I agree about that proposal you mention—it would've been fine at eight storeys. But the rules say otherwise, and overturning the rules introduces a bad precedent, in which developers will propose projects contrary to planning policies, which will ultimately be bad for the city AND lead to endless debates and red tape and a combative relationship between developers and communities.

So we have to abide by the rules we've created. If those rules are in some cases flawed, we should change them via the agreed-upon process, not simply ignore them.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

C2 zoning allows a wall with no windows at a property line, so you get Sobey's and the new Rona on Almon. Horrible design. Hoping to change that with teh Centre Plan.

cheers!

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Yeah, but we can't just start ditching the rules because we don't like them—uncertainty around rules, and constant appeals, etc., are widely blamed for Halifax's difficult development environment pre-HRMxD.

But if each development that CONFORMS still goes through a process, why isn't each development considered upon its merit?

It would be one thing if things that met standards went through... but that never happens, so why set all these ridiculous rules that are completely arbitrary. Nothing passes under directly under the rules.

As someone123 has said, this is a huge problem in Halifax. In other places, things that meet the rules don't get shot down anyway!!!

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

But if each development that CONFORMS still goes through a process, why isn't each development considered upon its merit?

It would be one thing if things that met standards went through... but that never happens, so why set all these ridiculous rules that are completely arbitrary. Nothing passes under directly under the rules.

As someone123 has said, this is a huge problem in Halifax. In other places, things that meet the rules don't get shot down anyway!!!

Yeah, I don't know exactly how we differ. I do know that when I loved in Toronto and reported on development issues as a journalist, there were loads of citizen appeals and opposition to council and to the Ontario Municipal Board, to the point that a lot of projects got held up, delayed, shrunk or outright cancelled due to fierce opposition. Mostly they were innocuous or even very good projects that were opposed for the usual nimby reasons.

I'd like to see a comparison of development applications, approvals and rejection in different cities, actually. We'd know once and for all which cities really are difficult to work in, and which are easier.

[portapetey]

This is a real crying shame. Very disappointing. Why bother at all?


(P.S. I know I should ease in gently instead of making my very first post so negative...but, really, UGH to this revised plan. Very sad.)

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I see that the 5599 Fenwick Street details have been updated - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/appli...293Details.php

The following link gives several 3D perspective renderings - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/appli...nd3DImages.pdf (I posted one of their images below). I think it looks great. It keeps the original brutalist shape but the glass re-cladding will look more contemporary.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by portapetey

This is a real crying shame. Very disappointing. Why bother at all?


(P.S. I know I should ease in gently instead of making my very first post so negative...but, really, UGH to this revised plan. Very sad.)

Lots of reasons. They're totally re-doing interior on units. Also, they're going to be adding a nice retail shop front to Fenwick, that is a massive improvement over the dumb, ugly, brutalist concrete driveway there now.

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Lots of reasons. They're totally re-doing interior on units. Also, they're going to be adding a nice retail shop front to Fenwick, that is a massive improvement over the dumb, ugly, brutalist concrete driveway there now.

Sure, but the building exterior will remain hideous, which has been the biggest complaint all along. It's really too bad the plan to reclad it with a clean, modern exterior has been abandoned. If the rendering is to believed, the minor effort to update the exterior will be for naught.

[curnhalio]

Originally Posted by portapetey

This is a real crying shame. Very disappointing. Why bother at all?


(P.S. I know I should ease in gently instead of making my very first post so negative...but, really, UGH to this revised plan. Very sad.)

Welcome to the board, from a relative newbie myself. I agree wholeheartedly how unfortunate this is, and the utter absurdity of the reasons why have been detailed in great length. If sports are games of inches, then development in Halifax is a game of feet. I also understand that the planned design was based on the ability to widen the tower and add more, larger units. Since the shape has to stay, and a long-promised makeover is still needed, I'm in favour of anything that upgrades the exterior. It probably looked tired in 1970, now it looks like an insomniac. The rendering probably isn't doing it justice, I doubt the glass on the finished product will look as lined and blocky as it does in the proposal.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Duff

A new rendering has been released for Fenwick Towers.

So, this is the old (new) rendering? This has been abandoned?

It doesn't look like it was going to be a radical do-over in any case.

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

So, this is the old (new) rendering? This has been abandoned?

It doesn't look like it was going to be a radical do-over in any case.

What do you mean? Have you ever actually seen Fenwick? Radical - this rendering doesn't even look like the same building - and that's a good thing.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by portapetey

What do you mean? Have you ever actually seen Fenwick? Radical - this rendering doesn't even look like the same building - and that's a good thing.

I think you need to go back upthread and look at the original renderings at different angles more closely. There was going to be re-cladding and an expansion, but not a radical make-over; the substantial change was going to be the added 34 floor tower expansion.

My understanding is the re-cladding will still include glass; so it will still get an external make-over.

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

I think you need to go back upthread and look at the original renderings at different angles more closely."

No need to be so condescending; I've read the entire thread and viewed all the renderings.

The new one looks pretty much identical to the existing, ugly building.

The previous one, expansion aside, had all new cladding that made it look like an entirely different, clean, and modern building.

Old plan solved the problem of the existing tower's very ugly appearance. New plan does not. That's all I'm saying.

It's a shame that the new, clean, smooth profile (including the expansion) has been abandoned in favor of a very minor modification to the existing tower.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by portapetey

No need to be so condescending; I've read the entire thread and viewed all the renderings.

The new one looks pretty much identical to the existing, ugly building.

The previous one, expansion aside, had all new cladding that made it look like an entirely different, clean, and modern building.

Old plan solved the problem of the existing tower's very ugly appearance. New plan does not. That's all I'm saying.

It's a shame that the new, clean, smooth profile (including the expansion) has been abandoned in favor of a very minor modification to the existing tower.

You're funny. You accuse me of being "condescending" after your "ZOMG, HAVE YOU EVER EVEN SEEN FENWICK?!?!".

I was actually being earnest. Why don't you try it in your next post-- your... 6th one on SSP? (Believe me, you'll know it when I'm being condescending. Like right now.)

In any case, my point, was that a curtain wall is not exactly a "radical" change; the significant changes, architecturally, were going to be the added massing to the tower. That was also the most controversial component.

As fenwick points out above, there will still be re-cladding-- happily, the floor to ceiling glass in units will reduce some of the clunky brutalist aspects of the exterior.

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

You're funny. You accuse me of being "condescending" after your "ZOMG, HAVE YOU EVER EVEN SEEN FENWICK?!?!".

I was actually being earnest. Why don't you try it in your next post-- your... 6th one on SSP? (Believe me, you'll know it when I'm being condescending. Like right now.)

In any case, my point, was that a curtain wall is not exactly a "radical" change; the significant changes, architecturally, were going to be the added massing to the tower. That was also the most controversial component.

As fenwick points out above, there will still be re-cladding-- happily, the floor to ceiling glass in units will reduce some of the clunky brutalist aspects of the exterior.

Yay for me! In a matter of three or four posts I've already managed to run up against one of the forum's apparent Queen Bees / de facto hall monitors who wants to make sure no one has any of their own opinions on simple questions. Sweet!

Why don't we just agree to disagree?

We'll call my glib quip and your finger-wagging scolding a draw, and you keep on keepin' on insisting - Counterfactually, of course - that the two designs aren't radically different in appearance, and I'll keep on being right. Deal?

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by portapetey

Yay for me! In a matter of three or four posts I've already managed to run up against one of the forum's apparent Queen Bees / de facto hall monitors who wants to make sure no one has any of their own opinions on simple questions. Sweet!

Why don't we just agree to disagree?

We'll call my glib quip and your finger-wagging scolding a draw, and you keep on keepin' on insisting - Counterfactually, of course - that the two designs aren't radically different in appearance, and I'll keep on being right. Deal?

This post reminds me a bit of this guy:



Anyways, it's all good, Port-a-Petey. Comes with the territory.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

This post reminds me a bit of this guy:



Anyways, it's all good, Port-a-Petey. Comes with the territory.

You guys slay me. Thanks for the chuckle!

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

This post reminds me a bit of this guy:



Anyways, it's all good, Port-a-Petey. Comes with the territory.

Love it! Glad you took my last post in th spirit in which it was intended.

[TheNovaScotian]

I honestly believe that Joe has run out of patiences with this proposal and now realizing that the building still fills every school year is slapping some lipstick on the pig and is moving on.
He's pretty much getting the windows done and putting it back on the market. The secondary building is too small and should step up to this monolithic structure not form some grouping of midgets to a giant.

The worst part is anything is a upgrade from the state the building is in and though this will do some good, the original had more vision of the area compared to him just finishing the building and washing his hands quickly to a REIT.