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  #701  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2014, 12:05 AM
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We haven't yet spoke the crazy/stupid project of the socialist candidate Hidalgo.



The project is to use the middle of Avenue Foch to built shopping/office.hopusing space and a park.
This is Avenue Foch as it is now.


I understand why they don't propose the construction of new skyscrapers in Montparnasse instead of this.
In my opinion, it would be easily accepted than this project, more realistic and more feasible.

If they want a project in this area, why to a redevelopment/revitalization of Avenue de la Grande Armée and Porte Maillot.
Today the shopping on Avenue de la Grande Armée is not attractive enough, it is dominated by car and motorcycle dealerships. Not good especially for the extension of the Champs Elysées.
This would be a much better project.

An article of the guardian

Quote:
Build council houses on Billionaires' Row, says Paris mayoral candidate
Socialist Anne Hidalgo's 'green corridor' ideas for Avenue Foch, home of oligarchs and royalty, prompts outrage from residents
Kim Willsher in Paris
theguardian.com, Thursday 23 January 2014 14.26 GMT

For some it is an inspirational idea to make Paris more green, to others a plan to destroy one of the French capital's most prestigious and historic avenues.

The fact that the proposals also include building council housing in the Billionaires' Row of Paris only makes them more contentious.

As Anne Hidalgo, the frontrunner in the city's mayoral race, walked the Avenue Foch, at the Arc de Triomphe end of the Champs Elysées, on Thursday, followed by banner-waving opponents, she insisted the plan to transform the area was "magnifique".

What's more, she said several times, her intuition told her she was on the right path.

Angry residents disagreed and said the scheme was crazy and politically motivated. "We say non to Madame Hidalgo's Luna Park," they said, and even Hidalgo's entourage had to admit the nickname was inspired.

Hidalgo, currently deputy mayor of Paris and the pollsters' favourite to win the municipal election in March, caused a storm when she announced she wanted to transform Avenue Foch, which some critics have described as a "lifeless urban motorway", into a "green corridor" leading straight to the neighbouring Bois de Boulogne public park.

Residents, who include a number Russian oligarchs, Middle Eastern royals and relatives of African leaders, are considerably less enthusiastic and have accused Hidalgo and the Socialist-run city hall of attempting to alter the socioeconomic makeup of the 16th arrondissement – the third-wealthiest area in Paris – and fill it with leftwing supporters.

Hidalgo's main opponent in the mayoral race, Nathalie Kosciusko-Morizet, of the centre-right UMP, immediately announced she was vehemently opposed to the proposal and would campaign against it.

The 1.3km (0.8-mile) long and 140-metre wide Avenue Foch, a classified historic monument, is one of 12 highways emanating from the roundabout around the Arc de Triomphe. It was opened in 1875 as the Avenue de l'Impératrice, named for Napoléon III's wife. During the Nazi occupation of Paris it was home to the local Gestapo headquarters and was nicknamed Avenue Boche.

If the plans are approved, and Hidalgo has promised a full Paris-wide consultation process, one end of Avenue Foch would become parkland and the other, by the Arc de Triomphe, a pedestrian area and shopping mall. Cars would be pushed out from the centre of the avenue to two lanes either side, and up to 7,000 homes, including student flats, local authority homes and private housing, would be built on a parallel strip.

"Historically, the spirit of Baron Haussmann was that this avenue should be Paris's entrance to the Bois de Boulogne," Hidalgo said on Thursday. "So this is about respecting history."

However, Jean-Pascal Sudaka, representing a group of residents who greeted the mayoral candidate with a banner and leaflets, said: "The project has no credibility or logic. Because they [the Socialists] are not in the majority in this arrondissement, they don't like it and are trying to change the makeup of the area. That's the real aim."

The 16th arrondissement of Paris has only around 2.5% of its properties designated as council housing, far short of the 20% required by law.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...nue-foch-mayor
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  #702  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2014, 6:20 AM
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^ Do you think that's anything serious? Cause it sounds very much like a socialist joke to raise political controversy for the municipal election. I think Hidalgo has a bunch of other priorities, Bastille and Nation for example. At least I hope so.
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  #703  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2014, 1:00 PM
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Even if it is a serious scheme, the Avenue Foch project has very little chance to be done, to not say none. I was criticizing the sole fact of proposing this crazy idea.
Why not skyscrapers in Montparnasse instead?

This is a small excerpt of what may be done at Place de la Bastille.


http://www.leparisien.fr/espace-prem...14-3524745.php
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  #704  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2014, 12:48 AM
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If you build social housing in the rich part of paris, wealthy foreigners will not want to live or own property there, prices will fall and the exclusive and prestigious neighbourhoods, where wealthy people live, will be downgraded and its status diminished, many wealthy people have allready left because of the high tax rate, if paris did this as well it would be economic suicide, even more money would leave paris for London, billions allready have, does the French media approve of this or are they being critical of it?, do you think it is likely to happen? Or is it just a ploy for political motives?

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Originally Posted by FMIII View Post
I strongly agree and we are far from what they promised us with La Defense 2012... And if I could strangle people at the Epad, I would. There is almost no place to build something in La Defense and they can not come up with something better than 3 new towers of about the same height and who are lost in a forest of guess what? = same height towers...

I really don't know why they spend so much on design for hidden towers...

They should start thinking bigger (if it's not too late) because soon there will be no place left to build some real towers...

Besides, it is really sad that we have to wait for a stubborn Russian (thankfully) to get something big done in this area.
If hermitage supertalls get built things will look different and probably start a wave of taller buildings

Last edited by Minato Ku; Feb 5, 2014 at 10:17 PM.
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  #705  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2014, 10:56 PM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
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Le Figaro published today an article that nicely supports what I was saying the other day. Maybe they read us.

This is what I wrote on Friday:
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
In my opinion, only a massive investment in roads can solve the problem of transportation at the level of the inner suburbs. We need to massively enlarge the current freeway network. The projects that need immediate attention are numerous:
  • widening the Périphérique (wherever it's possible) and above all the A86. These two beltways should have 12 lanes wherever it's possible.
  • joining the A14 freeway to the Périphérique by building the long-awaited tunnel under Neuilly-sur-Seine
  • joining the A15 freeway to the Périphérique through Clichy (partly in a tunnel), something that should have been done more than 10 years ago already but was inexplicably shelved by the government
  • probably adding 2 or 3 more freeways in the inner suburbs, to complete the freeway grid (these will probably have to be mostly built in tunnels, given the massive opposition to any new urban freeway project these days, but Barcelona shows that it's possible to build a complete network of underground freeways through a very dense urban area)
  • the idea of a north-south and east-west underground crossing of Central Paris via at least four 4-lane tunnels should be debated again (it was shelved 20 years ago). These two tunnels would cost a lot, but they would greatly alleviate traffic on the Périphérique, especially if the Périphérique is at the same time enlarged.

Of course I realize that all these ideas run against the Socialist consensus in favor of public transportation and against "capitalist" private car transportation. Neither the Greens nor the Socialists like the freedom that cars have brought us. They would like us all to cram into non-air conditioned tin cans bearing the logo of the RATP. Sorry but that dreadful collectivist vision of society is not mine.
And this is the article published by Le Figaro today:
Quote:
Road traffic: the Paris Region on the verge of permanent congestion

Le Figaro
January 28, 2013

Since 2010, the number of miles of traffic jams during rush hours has risen by 26% near Central Paris. Every day, more than half the length of the Périphérique freeway experiences slow traffic.



The Paris Region is more and more congested. That's what a study by V-Traffic revealed on Tuesday. According to the study, the number of miles of traffic jams during rush hours has risen by 26% in the Paris Region since 2010, and even 45% in the evening from Central Paris to the suburbs. According to Philippe Goudal, director of innovation at Mediamobile, "the reason for this situation is both the number of maintenance works launched these past years to repair the roads and the pedestrian-friendly policy of the City of Paris [which has restricted car traffic in Central Paris]."

[...]

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-fra...saturation.php
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  #706  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2014, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
Of course I realize that all these ideas run against the Socialist consensus in favor of public transportation and against "capitalist" private car transportation. Neither the Greens nor the Socialists like the freedom that cars have brought us. They would like us all to cram into non-air conditioned tin cans bearing the logo of the RATP. Sorry but that dreadful collectivist vision of society is not mine.
But, that is naive, brainwashing and awkwardness. When it comes to transit, you sound like the socialists about business. Entrepreneurs have always been their devils, looks like trains are yours.

The problem of roads is the very same as that of parking lots and garages that necessarily come along with them. They're too greedy for room in such a dense environment, and fugly, and boring, not allowing sophisticated and friendly urban developments. That's all, eh? No weird ideology in there, it's just all a matter of convenience for urban development. There's just no nice city with insanely wide roads and parking lots all over the place.

I really don't mind agreeing with the left wing in that respect. Why should you worry about it when they're obviously right in that matter? See the issues that the US cities have been facing, you want the same over here?
And it's not so unpleasant to take a train, really.
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  #707  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2014, 12:16 AM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
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Originally Posted by mousquet View Post
The problem of roads is the very same as that of parking lots and garages that necessarily come along with them. They're too greedy for room in such a dense environment, and fugly, and boring, not allowing sophisticated and friendly urban developments.
Freeways can be extremely beautiful (I-280 in the Bay of San Francisco for example). Freeways don't necessarily have to be the concrete ugliness that they are in the Paris Region. That's because they have made no efforts to beautify them. It's a purely Stalinist functionalist vision of infrastructures typical of the French engineering elites.

For instance, they could plant oleanders (lauriers-roses) in the middle of the freeways. That would instantly make the Parisian freeways look much more beautiful, and that would color the numerous gray days of Paris.





They could also plant Chilean wine palm trees which can perfectly withstand the winters of Paris (these palm trees resist to temperatures as cold as -15 C, and temperatures in Paris and its inner suburbs rarely fall below -15 C due to the metropolis' heat bubble). Plant 1,000 such trees along the A1 freeway, and you completely transform this ugly concrete freeway into a beautiful drive.




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Originally Posted by mousquet View Post
There's just no nice city with insanely wide roads and parking lots all over the place.
Yes there is. I can name many. Los Angeles for example, also San Diego and Montréal. And of course Toulouse until a few years ago before the Socialist-Greens came to power in the city and turned it into yet another French city hostile to car drivers.
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Originally Posted by mousquet View Post
And it's not so unpleasant to take a train, really.
The Paris Métro is not air-conditioned. That's unpleasant. And it's also very dirty. And it stops at night. And there are lots of work stoppages due to the hard-Left unions.
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  #708  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2014, 11:44 AM
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Bon, suppose every single citizen in the metro area daily used their cars for their every movement. You should easily realize that's merely impossible in an attractive, or at least livable urban environment. Once you admit that obvious fact, you're all fine with public transportation. Your socialists are far from alone in understanding the earnings of mass transit. If it was so horrible, I wonder why any municipality of the suburbs, whether managed by the right or the left wing would kill to be served by the central subway network. Think about those not even served by the RER network yet, they crave for it. I also wonder why as soon as a suburb is properly connected to the rest of the metro area by the rail network, their real estate values considerably increase. It's even funny. There's nothing like a subway or an RER station to double the worth of anything around.

I'm not for banning cars at all, however. It's good to have some in the streets and some people will always need them for working. But not too many. What they're doing in the central city is just rebalancing the use of streets and plazas. That is more room for pedestrians, bikes, buses and cabs/taxis that are typically of those actually few with real good reasons to be angry at heavy traffic jam, and less room for your random car drivers who've monopolized most the public space for decades. The method may be rude since traffic is being restricted while the necessary public transit means are not there yet, but that's the way it goes to fund rail transit infrastructures over here. If needs are not really pressing, politicians are too slow in funding them.

Your plants are cool, but they're not enough to make up all that crazy amount of grim tar needed by roads and parking room. For example, how do you like bar buildings of the suburbs surrounded by parking lots in the most mediocre urban layouts ever seen in this country? I bet you deeply despise them, like you'd never live in there. Well, that's what your 100% car-oriented transit has produced for decades following WWII. It's pretty interesting to note that almost all quality, attractive urban spots were developed before WWII and that systematic proliferation of cars, even when they were not actually needed. That addiction for cars has certainly been extreme. Then medicine to cure the metro area is a little painful for now, but it's no drama either. It's just the rail network to rigorously extend all over the metro area, by taking no prisoner, and those good old bad habits to change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
The Paris Métro is not air-conditioned. That's unpleasant.
If I'm not mistaking, all relatively recent rail vehicles are air-conditioned. Only older ones are not, and they're bound to be replaced by new (and air-conditioned) ones anyways.

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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
And it's also very dirty.
Lol, no kidding?! Is it?? Using public transportation while being a ridiculously delicate person, I probably know about that better than you do. That's the Parisian/French society, and those filthy pigs that have no respect for public goods and public space, and their homeless people who've lost everything up to the common sense of decency. Hell, sorry for telling that sordid story, once I passed one who was downright defecating on a platform. And, um, it was kind of noisy, if you see what I mean... There was no choice but passing him, that was quite a hell of a test to me. I ran to the opposite side of that platform, struggling, forcing myself into thinking about anything else, otherwise I was very close to throw up, which would've been quite embarrassing. Sometimes, crap like that happens. Again, it's the current shape of society and I don't think fleeing to a car because it's supposed more comfy is any effective solution. I've always called for communication campaigns and strict rules to humiliate and educate those nasty dirtying the subway and the streets, still waiting. I wish France was like stereotyped Switzerland in that respect, all clean, all respectful for public goods funded by your holy tax money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
And it stops at night.
Well it should work 24/7, all year long, which is nothing impossible. When most Euro competitive cities do so, I guess Paris will finally do it too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
And there are lots of work stoppages due to the hard-Left unions.
Stereotype. At least, I once saw figures showing that our local rail workers actually didn't go on strike more often than in other comparable European countries. But when they do so, it's surely a mess and too many of them are brainwashed by the far left, indeed. That said, some right ring people are brainwashed and extreme as well, huh? You can't deny.
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  #709  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 3:31 PM
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The nimby loses their fights against Pont d'Issy towers.
Not only their appeals were rejected by Cergy administrative court but they have been sentenced for abusive appeals.
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  #710  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 4:58 PM
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Excellent aviation news for Paris. According to the airport figures I've checked, it looks like the Paris metro area has risen to 4th place in the world in terms of air passenger traffic in 2013!!

In 2013, the three commercial airports of Paris (CDG, Orly, and Beauvais) had a total traffic of 94,517,000 passengers. This is up +1.95% compared to 2012.

In 2012, Paris was the 5th busiest air hub in the world just behind Atlanta, and with Beijing hot on its heels.

In 2013, air passenger growth in Beijing decreased considerably (only +2.2% for Beijing's main international airport). We don't have the results of the much smaller Beijing Nanyuan airport yet, but both airports should have had less than 90 million passengers combined in 2013.

As for Atlanta, we don't have the December traffic figures yet, but the 11 first months of 2013 have shown passenger traffic declining by 1.7% at Atlanta Airport. In order for Atlanta to have more passengers than the 94,517,000 of Paris, Atlanta needs to have had an exceptionally good month of December. In December 2012, Atlanta had 7,453,000 passengers. If Atlanta managed to keep the same number of passengers in December 2013 (which would run counter to the general declining trend of Atlanta in 2013), then Atlanta would have had 94,028,000 passengers in 2013, which is less than Paris. In order to beat Paris, Atlanta would need to have had a passenger increase of +6.6% in December 2013 compared to December 2012. In November 2013, passenger traffic at Atlanta Airport was down -5.2% compared to November 2013.

So in all likelihood, Paris passed Atlanta in 2013 and is now the 4th busiest air hub in the world behind London, New York, and Tokyo.

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  #711  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 6:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
The nimby loses their fights against Pont d'Issy towers.
Not only their appeals were rejected by Cergy administrative court but they have been sentenced for abusive appeals.


Since Issy was discussed today, I'm bringing that video in French that promotes a mixed-use slice of the redevelopment over there.



http://www.geo-vision-avenir.com/projets-3

To find that video, click on the link and scroll down a little.

What it explains:

The site located right on a quay of the Seine river is neighboring both Boulogne-Billancourt which it's connected to by the bridge right there (namely the pont d'Issy, literally the Issy bridge) and the 15th arrondissement of the central city. So it's easily accessible whether by car, nearby Central Paris's ring freeway - that boring périphérique that I absolutely scorn since it physically, psychologically and awkwardly disconnects the central city from its neighboring suburbs - or by public transportation, served by line C of the mighty RER commuter network, line 12 of the central subway network not far away by foot, light rail T2 and a bus line! Eh! What a perfect spot for some sizable redevelopment, given what's been there so far. Nothing much, some bland office lowrises from the 80s poorly connected to their surroundings for stuck in the middle of freeways and railways. It's also very easily reachable by the river, if ever used as a support for transit.

However, there's still some confusion about the design of what would be on that large lot introduced here. We can't tell about what's really been approved yet, but contents are roughly the same no matter what design we heard of.
This promoted in the video includes:
  • The Hélice tower, a 33-floor, 145m (475 ft) tall building to host 51,000m² (~550k sq ft) of offices and 730m² (~8000 sq ft) of commercial/retail space on the 1st floor.
  • A 9-floor campus building providing 32,000m² (~345k sq ft) of offices and 400m² (4300 sq ft) of retail on the 1st floor.
  • 2 residential buildings, 18 and 16 floors, that include 147 market rate units and 41 social housing apartments. Also, a 750m² (8000 sq ft) nursery, that would accommodate 60 babies and 240m² (2500 sq ft) of additional retail.

The many rendering pictures of the video let you see layouts, designs and arrangement of pedestrian space and streets going along.

Too bad and pretty strange that the height of those residential buildings still has to be moderate. Considering the total and laughable shortage of high-rise housing over here, I think they'd be safe in being much more ambitious. They're just boasting terraces to those not exactly exciting. Whatever, the approved design may be well different, but certainly not any taller.

Anyway, that redevelopment plans 2 more office highrises, including this. That makes a dense little cluster of it featuring 3 tall buildings. I think their mixed-use program is interesting to push la Défense into further mixed-use improvement in the short run. If it's successful enough, it might also possibly motivate both Issy and Boulogne to build some taller things and implement a 2nd serious highrise cluster after that of la Défense, embedded within their yet dense fabric, locally on both banks of the river. But that'd surely be a distant future, having a dream here.
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  #712  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 8:05 PM
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There is already a building permit for at least one of the three towers, the two others will be delivered soon if it is not already the case.
Demolition of the old office buildings located here has beginned.

For 51,000 m², this tower could be higher.
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  #713  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2014, 11:42 AM
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The Melia hotel in la Défense, yesterday by Vincent92000 on pss-archi:















And the renovation of Athéna just on the other side of the esplanade, still by Vincent:

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  #714  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2014, 5:44 PM
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A photo of Paris and La Défense by Antonio Gaudencio, on Flickr, taken exactly 3 weeks ago. You can see Tour Majunga nearly
completed now, and Tour D2 still under construction. I have also indicated the future location of the Hermitage Towers, whose
legal hurdles should finally be cleared this year.





La Défense at dusk, taken from the Tuileries Gardens by Anthony Gelot, on Flickr, exactly 4 days ago. Tour Majunga doesn't have any lights yet.



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  #715  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2014, 9:32 PM
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More information about the new high-rise cluster in Issy Val de Seine, Pont d'Issy district redevelopment area.

Three towers are planned.
-Tour Étoile: around 189m (Tour IMEFA 52) | 40fl | Viguier
-Tour IMA or Issy Tower (Tour CGI): 160m | 41fl | Libeskind
-Tour Hélice: 145m | 37fl | Loci Anima /Arte Charpentier

http://www.issy.com/sites/default/fi...e_publique.pdf


http://www.driee.ile-de-france.devel..._cle0d7eef.pdf

A view of the cluster made by Cyril (a french forumer) with the renders of the planned skyscrapers.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=358

Last edited by Minato Ku; Feb 5, 2014 at 10:12 PM.
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  #716  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2014, 7:02 PM
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Libeskind's design easily appears the most interesting of the 3. If anything, the 2 others look completely ordinary. The little cluster as a whole may nevertheless be nice, especially if it feels good to the street level. That's why I'm glad we get 3 there, instead of a single that could be taller but lone and awkward in the skyline.
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  #717  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2014, 6:42 PM
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Housing program in la Défense, more accurately in Nanterre.











It's called "One"... While rightfully excited about the prospect of more people living la Défense, I don't get that bar at all, it's getting on my nerves right now. I don't think it'll be ugly because of those contemporary façade materials that make some better standard today in the country, but it's clearly unworthy of that good spot with great views for sale. Why won't they build anything more ambitious? huh!? I mean wayyyy taller, with many more units! Nonsense. Make no mistake, apartments in there are likely to go sort of expensive. Again, that's why that bar's just inept right there.
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  #718  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2014, 9:05 PM
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The French statistical office INSEE has published the (revised) 2011 and (first released) 2012 regional GDP figures.

The GDP of the Paris Region (11.95 million inhabitants) rose from 601.2 billion euros in 2011 to 612.3 billion euros in 2012.

For comparison, the GDP of The Netherlands (16.74 million inh.) rose from 599.0 billion euros in 2011 to 599.3 billion euros in 2012.

The GDP of North Rhine-Westphalia (17.55 million inh.) rose from 572.3 billion euros in 2011 to 582.1 billion euros in 2012.

The GDP of Bavaria (12.48 million inh.) rose from 456.3 billion euros in 2011 to 465.5 billion euros in 2012.
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Old Posted Feb 18, 2014, 11:31 AM
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Renovation of Carreau du Temple, a mid-19th century warehouse/covered market in the 3rd arrondissement.

It was in a gritty shape.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carreau_du_Temple

Now renovated into a multipurpose structure.















By lejdd.fr, hosted on imageshack.com

There are showrooms, some of which can apparently be converted into basketball playgrounds and tennis courts, some room to host business meetings, a 250-seat theater, some art workshops, some basement rooms for dance and martial arts... Seemingly attractive. That kind of 2nd Empire warehouses showing their cast-iron structure elements always is.
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  #720  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2014, 5:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philip View Post
^^The cityscape of Paris thrives on Bold New Ideas. When they built Eiffel Tower, People protested. When they build Pompidou Center, people ridiculed. When they built the pyramid at the Louvre Museum, people questioned.

But now everyone in Paris and the rest of the world loves them. Paris would not be the same without these buildings. It is the essence of radical designs that makes Paris unique. The city does not need rows after rows of ancient dwellings that look exactly the same.
I'm new to the Paris forums, but looking in as I'm moving to Paris in a few months. I know a lot of people (both in Paris and in the U.S.) who still hate Pompidou and the Louvre pyramid. Not everyone loves them.

Last edited by Stenar; Feb 23, 2014 at 3:59 AM.
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