La manière la plus facile d'apprendre le français?

[Dr Nevergold]

I seriously need to learn viable, fluent french, but I also have no idea how to *really* learn it. Do any of you on here have any advice? It is crucial to my future, because I want to work in the public sector some day, and plus I need it for personal reasons. I want to feel at home when I visit Quebec (I've increasingly been visiting several times a year for a while now, always unable to even order food at a predominantly french restaurant without help).

Anyone have advice?

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(courtesy of babelfish.yahoo.com)

Je dois sérieusement apprendre le français viable et fluent, mais je n'ai également aucune idée comment au *really* l'apprendre. Y en a-t-il qui a dessus ici un conseil ? Il est crucial à mon futur, parce que je veux travailler dans le secteur public un certain jour, et à plus que j'ai besoin de lui pour des raisons personnelles. Je veux être à l'aise quand je visite le Québec (I' ; le VE de plus en plus visitant plusieurs fois par année pendant un moment maintenant, toujours incapable de commander même la nourriture à un restaurant principalement français sans aide). N'importe qui ont le conseil ?

[begratto]

Complete immersion is the only way, really. I had 8 years of English courses (as learning English + often a third language is mandatory in Quebec) but probably learned more in a 3 weeks exchange program I did when I was 14 with BC students than during the entire duration of my school years.

Of course having a base (grammar and vocabulary) beforehand helps tremendously, but you can't really learn a language without being "forced" to actually use it.

So if you know no French at all, I'd suggest you get started with one of those "French for beginners" books / dvd's, podcasts, online courses etc and then apply to one of the summer immersion programs offered by many Quebec cegeps , ideally in a small town far away from Montreal (where a bigger proportion of people is bilingual so it would be difficult to practice your French as more people would switch to English - out of politeness- when hearing you struggling with your basic French).

For example (but other cegeps have similar programs) : http://www.frenchimmersionprogram.ca/en/home.html

Bonnie chance!

[sebast13]

The only efficient way is total immersion. I suggest you don't go to Montreal if you want to learn french. Great, great city, but not for learning french. Come to Quebec city or any other city. Over there you'll just end up speaking english the whole time. If you can, go to the most remote place you can find

You have to adopt the following attitude...

Put your pride aside and don't fear making a fool of yourself; you will make mistakes, have a strong accent and say funny things sometimes. Deal with it and learn to laugh about it. Do not let this get to you.

Force people to speak french with you. Quebeckers (especially those under 30) are often quite good in english and they are eager to practice or to show off the fact that they are bilangual whenever they can. Even if you adress people in english, they will start talking to you in english when they notice your accent. You must ask them right away to adress you in french at all times. This is very important because it will happen all the time, even outside of Montreal.

Be serious about it. Learn new words everyday and put genuine effort into learning the verbs tenses. They are complicated but very rewarding once you've mastered them. Do not get discouraged but the complicated grammatical rules. People will understand you even if you mess up genders, verb tenses or adverbs. It not a big problem! You will perfect those aspects over time. Always remembers that even Quebeckers make a lot of grammatical mistakes when they speak french. Perfection is very long to achieve but a level that is sufficient to make yourself understood is easily accessible.

Stay positive and avoid thinking of your learning process as an impossible to climb mountain. Cripples climb the Everest. Anyone can learn french.

If you want to get ready for your immersion, I suggest using software such as Rosetta Stone which is based on an instinctive learning process. The software shows pictures of objects and actions, you hear a voice pronouncing the word, you see the spelling, you repeat the word and by doing so you learn french like it was the first language you ever learned. This method doesn't use translation! You never see the english translation of what you're learning but your brain makes the connection naturally between two words that describe the same concept.

When you feel ready, try to think in french and start watching tv shows and reading books. There are tons of high quality french content on the web. Why not take an hour everyday to discover this incredible source of entertainment.

Most of all, have fun doing it and make some friends if you come over here. People will be glad to help you. In general, we are very impressed and fond of anglos that take time to learn french

What I'm describing is the attitude I had when I learned english, spanish and japanese on top of french, my first language. 100% guaranteed ^^

[le calmar]

^ Amen to that. Learning a new language is never easy. I am actually trying to learn Spanish (and Japanese as well, but right now most of my efforts are directed towards Spanish, even though I took some Japaneses lessons and studied books in the past). The fact that my gf is from latin america helps with my Spanish, but Japanese is a totally different story.

The advantage of being born in a place where English is non-dominant is that it forces anybody willing to be taken seriously to learn English. Many Montrealers also speak a third language, in most cases Spanish. Being "only" bilingual in Montreal doesn't make you smarter at all nowadays. Speaking only French litteraly makes you look like an idiot. (I can't think of anybody I know who doesn't speak at the very least a near-decent English)

[Vaillant]

go spend a few weeks in Saguenay

[The Gibbroni]

If you want to learn in a short period of time, go to Québec City. Montréal can be tough because people will usually switch to English when they hear your accent. I didn't know any French when I came here so I moved to the east end and enrolled in classes for new arrivals provided by CSDM. These were great because they gave me a solid foundation and the ability to communicate in everyday life. I then enrolled at UQAM where they have an excellent program that enables you to become fluently bilingual in reading, writing and speaking. I had to quit because work interfered (and because I failed fucking grammar!!!) but I will go back and finish.

A few ideas;

For reading, pick up translations of books that you have read in English and reread them in french. Your familiarity with the story will help you through some of the vocabulary that you don't understand. This also works with news articles on subjects that you are familiar with. Paulo Coelho 'The Alchemist/l'Alchimiste' is a good one.

Watch TV and movies. I began watching movies in French with subtitles until I got to the point where I no longer needed the subtitles and news reports are good because you are already familiar with the subject matter. Now I just go to movies in whichever original language and watch both Radio Canada and CBC (or CTV) news to get their different perspectives.

Listen to music and radio. Radio Canada is perfect (TV or radio) because the announcers speak International French and don't use local jargon. Music can be tougher because poetic licence is taken and you cannot always translate lyrics. Still, my girlfriend sent me Jean Leloup cds with all the printed lyrics (when I was still in Halifax) and I found that reading along while listening really helped isolate the words that were otherwise lost. Bonus: I can now sing along to all Jean Leloup songs on the 1983-2005 compilation!

Most importantly, don't be shy and think that people will laugh if you make a mistake! Look at it this way: do you laugh at people when they don't speak perfect English? Québécois love it when you at least attempt to speak French and you can always make yourself understood in one way or another. Go out, strike up conversations (bars are good). People here are generally super friendly and have no issue with speaking to strangers. Tell them where you're from and that you are learning French and you'll be talking in no time.

One thing that I would advise against is going to an English university to learn French. I've never understand people who go to McGill or Concordia for French classes. As soon as you step outside the classroom, everyone speaks English. It's a bit like going to Tokyo to learn German!

Keep in mind that everyone learns in different ways so go with whatever works for you. Above all, have fun!

[lio45]

Originally Posted by le calmar

Learning a new language is never easy.

Actually, Spanish is pretty easy for a French speaker. Japanese is definitely another story, as you say. (My sister spent last summer in Japan and will likely do the same this year; I've been a witness to her learning efforts.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by le calmar

. Speaking only French litteraly makes you look like an idiot.)

What about someone who lives in Quebec but who speaks only English? Do they look like idiots too?

[MTLskyline]

Originally Posted by Acajack

What about someone who lives in Quebec but who speaks only English? Do they look like idiots too?

If they are under 60 and grew up here, they certainly aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by Acajack

What about someone who lives in Quebec but who speaks only English? Do they look like idiots too?

No. Many students come here for school and then go back home when they graduate. They don't look like idiots because they are here on a temporary basis. Same for people spending some time in Quebec for work or other reasons.

The anglophones living in Quebec permanently have at least a certain knowledge of French. Most anglophones I know are not always eager to start a conversation in French, but they can understand most of it, or at least some of it. The only anglophones I can think of who don't know any French at all (not counting the students or people here on a temporary basis) are those over 60 and not willing to speak or learn French because they don't care. In a city where most of the population living here permantly speak (or can understand) both languages to at least some extent, they certainly don't look smarter than the rest.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by le calmar

No. Many students come here for school and then go back home when they graduate. They don't look like idiots because they are here on a temporary basis. Same for people spending some time in Quebec for work or other reasons.

.

And they are less idiotic than a francophone high school principal who speak only French and lives in a 100% francophone town or city?

Anyway, sounds like you are making excuses. Have you ever spent any time (say, a week) in a place where you did not speak the language? How long did it take you to learn how to say please, thank you, I will have two of these please, excuse me, hello, goodbye, etc. in the local language?

[Dr Nevergold]

Thanks for the info guys. I hope we can stay away from calling anyone an "idiot" because learning a new language is no small feat for anyone, regardless of background.

Immersion is very difficult when you have a full time job and must be with it to make ends meet, which is my situation. What I hope to do is spend some time among some native french speaking Canadians this summer, maybe help me get some more basics down, otherwise I'm having to stick with two mediums. I can listen to the CBC Radio station out of Toronto that broadcasts french (860am) and I can pick up TV 5 Monde on cable (the only french station we have). Between those two avenues and chatting online, that will have to be my real "immersion" but it is hard to just pick up, I am going to have to get more basics understood before anything really makes sense.

I can pick individual words up on occasion, at least. For me I've always wanted to learn regardless of whether it helps with work or not, I'd love the confidence of going into a Quebec town and being able to fluently speak to someone without uttering a word of english. Actually, I'd love to go to France some day as well and do the same, instead of feeling like a token tourist.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by Acajack

And they are less idiotic than a francophone high school principal who speak only French and lives in a 100% francophone town or city?

I was talking about Montreal. People who have been living there for a long time to be more exact. I was not refering to people in general because learning a language is never easy. Or I would be calling a lot of people idiot and that's certainly not why I meant. And I should not have used the word "idiot" in the first place, that was not appropriate. Anyways, like Brandon said this is getting off topic.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Brandon716

...otherwise I'm having to stick with two mediums. I can listen to the CBC Radio station out of Toronto that broadcasts french (860am) and I can pick up TV 5 Monde on cable (the only french station we have).

I'm not sure it's a good idea to mix French French and Canadian French at this stage of your learning. In fact I'd recommend sticking with Radio-Canada and getting some self-learning method. That worked for me with both Spanish and German (never reached complete fluency in the latter though... and nowadays it's pretty dormant, but still, you get the point).

Good luck and you're welcome to ask us if you have any questions related to French.

[Dr Nevergold]

^Thanks. BTW TV 5 Monde airs a lot of Quebec content in the states, so its not all from France.

[Acajack]

My view is that any variety of French that you learn will be helpful in putting you on the road to being able to communicate with people in Quebec.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My view is that any variety of French that you learn will be helpful in putting you on the road to being able to communicate with people in Quebec.

Let's say I'm trying to learn English starting from scratch, and I tell you my sole sources of contact with the language are currently 1/3 U.S. radio, 1/3 Scottish radio, 1/3 Australian radio, you'll think I'm doing the right thing at this stage?

[MexiQuebecois]

Originally Posted by lio45

Let's say I'm trying to learn English starting from scratch, and I tell you my sole sources of contact with the language are currently 1/3 U.S. radio, 1/3 Scottish radio, 1/3 Australian radio, you'll think I'm doing the right thing at this stage?

Yes you are, I'm a language instructor and this is in fact recommended to familiarize yourself with all the variations of the language. If you stick with just one accent, you'll eventually get used to it and will have a lot of problems to understand anyone else.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Let's say I'm trying to learn English starting from scratch, and I tell you my sole sources of contact with the language are currently 1/3 U.S. radio, 1/3 Scottish radio, 1/3 Australian radio, you'll think I'm doing the right thing at this stage?

My suggestion was not that someone actually do this. My point was that if you are in the U.S. and have access mostly to European French sources, it will still help you a lot with Canadian French. Both versions are essentially the same in their written form, plus Brandon mentioned TV5 as one of his sources. Well, TV5 doesn't exactly broadcast stuff like Les Amateurs de Sport, and its Quebec content is mostly news and documentaries from Radio-Canada's TV network. The French spoken on these types of shows is not signifcantly far off from that spoken on similar shows from France.

[Dr Nevergold]

I intend on watching and listening to sources from both Quebec and France, so over time maybe I can understand both accents and easily switch between them. But that's thinking way ahead, I'm only counting to 10 and saying Bonjour for now.