Canada's most urban neighbourhood

[Vicelord John]

I love the old red brick neighborhoods. Lincoln Park in Chicago is one of my favorite places in the world. There is something about urban dense old neighborhoods that makes me feel funny in my pants. That's why I'm on this website. I'll flock to any business located in historic buildings. My favorite restaurants and bars are in places which are interesting architecturarly and historic. It has nothing to do with city vs. suburbs. It has to do with civic pride vs. letting your city fall to shambles.

Sure, Montreal has beautiful architecture, but when it is covered in graffiti, trash, and in disrepair, I don't find it beautiful anymore. There are plenty of neighborhoods which are either "up and coming" or "gentrified" and are beautiful even though they are hundreds of years old. There is a difference between gritty and downright trashy. Get it?

I am looking at these pictures, finding striking similarities with some parts of downtown St. Louis, or Gary, IN with better architecture. It could pass for some of the uglier parts of Pittsburgh as well.

I'm not a suburbanite, I hate the suburbs and when I vacation I stay as central as I can in any city. Montreal is just an ugly, run down place, though.

I'm going to reply to every person who continues to make an issue of this. I think it is run down and ugly, that's the way I'm going to think, and you aren't going to change my opinion. It has nothing to do with urbinity, but more a lack of regard and civic pride because it is apparent nobody cares to maintain the place, and let me add the city of Phoenix has a graffiti removal team (mostly volunteers within individual neighborhood associations, not HOA) and the city is almost free of it. Why can't montreal do the same? it would be unbelievable how much prettier the city would be. My guess is that it is apathy.

[Vicelord John]

Originally Posted by softee

It's a good thing Vicelord didn't wander into Kensington Market while he was in Toronto or his head would have exploded.

Why? if this picture I found on google images is the place you're speaking of, it's awesome There is a lot of shopping, a market with outdoor fruit, public art, etc. It's an urban wonderland. A total opposite of what I see in those Montreal pictures.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

I am looking at these pictures, finding striking similarities with some parts of downtown St. Louis, or Gary, IN with better architecture. It could pass for some of the uglier parts of Pittsburgh as well.

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

I think it is run down and ugly, that's the way I'm going to think, and you aren't going to change my opinion.

this illogical obstinacy is something you should be ashamed of.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

Why? if this picture I found on google images is the place you're speaking of, it's awesome There is a lot of shopping, a market with outdoor fruit, public art, etc. It's an urban wonderland. A total opposite of what I see in those Montreal pictures.

It is awesome, but has just as much garbage and graffiti as what you are lamenting in Montreal. The laneway in the picture you found just to the left of the TD bank ATM (which incidentally, has GRAFFITI at ground level) is often home to crust punks drinking openly. Y'know, the same type of people that terrified you on Ste-Catherine.

I'm not really sure I understand the preoccupation with graffiti either, particularly as the type predominant in Montreal does not signify gang activity. Plus a not insignificant portion of it - likely including the piece on the storefront of the Mtl street corner you reposted - is permitted by the building owners. You may not like it, but the presence of paint instead of a blank wall does not necessarily signify neglect.

I'll take this over a blank wall in a laneway any day (graffiti alley behind Queen St W in Toronto):


by gingermaddy on flickr

[Vicelord John]

Originally Posted by niwell

It is awesome, but has just as much garbage and graffiti as what you are lamenting in Montreal. The laneway in the picture you found just to the left of the TD bank ATM (which incidentally, has GRAFFITI at ground level) is often home to crust punks drinking openly. Y'know, the same type of people that terrified you on Ste-Catherine.

but it's vibrant. All of those pictures of Montreal it looks like a ghost town. And that graffiti you posted is some quality shit that a lot of people would consider art. Not like those lame ass tags in Montreal pictures.

[Vicelord John]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

this illogical obstinacy is something you should be ashamed of.

I should be ashamed of standing by my beliefs and opinions? It's the American way, pal. Decide how you feel, and don't let anyone sway you another way. At least I'm not a wishy washy Canadian!

I say the last part in jest at least.

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

but it's vibrant. All of those pictures of Montreal it looks like a ghost town. And that graffiti you posted is some quality shit that a lot of people would consider art. Not like those lame ass tags in Montreal pictures.

Montreal is all but a ghost town.

If Montreal is well-known for something, it's the vibrancy.

It is ignorance to speak about something you, without a shadow of a doubt, do not know well (or at all).

[NYaMtl]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

I'm going to reply to every person who continues to make an issue of this. I think it is run down and ugly, that's the way I'm going to think, and you aren't going to change my opinion. It has nothing to do with urbinity, but more a lack of regard and civic pride...

Why would you insist on maintaining this position when you admit that you barely saw the city? Is that why you're ignoring my posts?

I don't care if you're sticking to your guns, I'm just trying to see if you can admit there are parts of the city other than those fugly few blocks you saw--places where civic pride is not just evident, it is le mode de vie Montrealais. Your accusations are just remarkable to the point of being mind-boggling, particularly considering where you come from. Montréal looks great (except at the beginning of spring) through virtually the entire city limits and without any HOAs levying fines and forcing people to clean up.

I could sit here and try to explain why attitudes toward graffiti in this city might be different than in others (a lack of a real gang presence in most quarters plus some genuinely talented street artists might have something to do with it). I'm not even going to touch the "run down" argument, it's so absurd. You already are ignoring my queries as to whether or not you recognize that you are basing your opinion on a limited sample of one of the (former) worst neighborhoods around the city. Anything anybody is trying to rationally engage you in dialog is met with "nuh uh, I'm right, you're defensive, and you won't change my mind."

And then you add that Kensington Market, which is arguably in worse shape than the Plateau but with similar street life and vibrancy, is awesome. That photo has overhead wires, garbage, and graffiti (gasp!).

So, you are either a moron or a troll. Or you got gypped by a hooker on Ste-Catherine and forever have a grudge against our ugly, run-down city.

It's incredible, I think I agree with Kool maudit's assessment, particularly since Vicelord John's retort was "Nuh uh." I would love to meet someone who thinks Outremont is run down and ugly, or talk to someone who insists Westmounters have no civic pride.

[Vicelord John]

You're right. I'm basing my opinion of Montreal on my visit to that neighborhood, as well as the pictures in this post which look better than what I remember, but not a lot better. Also, Montreal can't keep a baseball team and I remember reading many many stories about how awful that stadium is and how it is in complete disrepair (retractable roof broke so instead of fixing it they just locked it in place) which speaks of negligence. See there is a pattern of apathy and negligence which obviously has made it's way across international borders and all the way to the southwest.

I love Canada and I would love to spend my Summers in Vancouver or Toronto, but Montreal was just more grit than I can deal with, and I can deal with a lot... hell, I play basketball on 22nd and Wabash in Chicago every summer. The thing is though, Vancouver is vibrant, dense (the densest city in North America) and ridiculously beautiful and clean. I know it's all new construction, but it's not hard to show a little damn pride and keep clean looking clean.

[NYaMtl]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

I should be ashamed of standing by my beliefs and opinions? It's the American way, pal. Decide how you feel, and don't let anyone sway you another way. At least I'm not a wishy washy Canadian!

I say the last part in jest at least.

An ugly, run-down ghost town according to Vicelord John:

(from Cirrus's awesome tour of Montreal in 2009)

I think you've really outdone yourself in absurdity.

Dude, you were staying in an Econolodge in the remnants of a Victorian slum.

[NYaMtl]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

]Also, Montreal can't keep a baseball team and I remember reading many many stories about how awful that stadium is and how it is in complete disrepair (retractable roof broke so instead of fixing it they just locked it in place) which speaks of negligence.

??? What does baseball have to do with it? This is a hockey town. The stadium is not in complete disrepair, it is constantly being improved. It doesn't speak of negligence, it speaks of a serious design flaw. A flexible roof that is supposed to retract into a 50 storey leaning tower (that never worked) in a city where it snows almost every day during winter and gets quite windy?

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

]The thing is though, Vancouver is vibrant, dense (the densest city in North America) and ridiculously beautiful and clean.

Agreed, Vancouver is beautiful and clean. Good thing you weren't staying in the Downtown East Side, or else Vancouver would be ugly, run-down, and full of heroin addicts and graffiti.

[NYaMtl]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

I love Canada and I would love to spend my Summers in Vancouver or Toronto, but Montreal was just more grit than I can deal with, and I can deal with a lot... hell, I play basketball on 22nd and Wabash in Chicago every summer.

Incidentally, I grew up in Chicago and I can attest that there is nothing in Montreal that even comes close to the worst parts of Chicago.

[Vicelord John]

Originally Posted by NYaMtl

An ugly, run-down ghost town according to Vicelord John:

(from Cirrus's awesome tour of Montreal in 2009)

I think you've really outdone yourself in absurdity.

Dude, you were staying in an Econolodge in the remnants of a Victorian slum.

Looks ^^^^NOTHING like where I was or the pictures posted in this thread. That picture looks like an amazing eurpoean city!

[NYaMtl]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

Looks ^^^^NOTHING like where I was or the pictures posted in this thread. That picture looks like an amazing eurpoean city!

Next time you are in town let me know, I'll invite you to have this ridiculous argument over a cold pint. If the weather is shite, I'll be in Vancouver...

[kool maudit]

why do you hate the french?

[flar]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

but it's vibrant. All of those pictures of Montreal it looks like a ghost town. And that graffiti you posted is some quality shit that a lot of people would consider art. Not like those lame ass tags in Montreal pictures.

This is part of the same neighbourhood: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=180439

I made two completely different threads for The Plateau. This one is about the residential architecture so I tried to avoid getting people in the photos. I actually had to wait around a lot for people to pass because all of these streets have more people walking around than in most cities. The thread I linked above is St. Denis, one of the commercial streets in the Plateau, which was filled with people on an Easter Sunday afternoon. And I will add that both St. Denis and St. Laurent are even more hopping after the sun goes down.

[flar]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

why do you hate the french?

Let's not even go there...

[NYaMtl]

Originally Posted by flar

This is part of the same neighbourhood: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=180439

I made two completely different threads for The Plateau. This one is about the residential architecture so I tried to avoid getting people in the photos. I actually had to wait around a lot for people to pass because all of these streets have more people walking around than in most cities. The thread I linked above is St. Denis, one of the commercial streets in the Plateau, which was filled with people on an Easter Sunday afternoon. And I will add that both St. Denis and St. Laurent are even more hopping after the sun goes down.

And back to these amazing photos--thank you flar. You've inspired me to go for a nice walk this afternoon!

[flar]

Originally Posted by mike474

Forgive me, but I'm going to change the topic at hand. When was the plateau developed? Obviously that's a complicated question, but would anyone know when the rowhouses around Square St. Louis were built for instance?

These buildings range from Late Victorian to early 20th Century. The stuff towards the end of the thread is further east (St. Hubert) and definitely post-Victorian. A large part of Montreal looks like the pics toward the end, almost every street is lined with double or triple decker plexes.

[arlekin_m]

Great pics.

I'm loving the couple rowhouses with turret-like finishings up top... I wonder, what style could those be?