Northern Ontario developments!

[TbayON]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

So does this mean that the south core might have some semblance of a skyline soon?

Well I still wouldn't call it much of a skyline, but at 7 or 8 storeys, the courthouse is certainly going to change the look of the area. There are only two other buildings down there (Royal Eddy and the Appt buildin across from Paterson Park) that can really compete with that height. I wouldn't be surprised in the coming few years once the courthouse is done if a large out of town developer picked up the Royal Eddy with the goal of bringing it back to its former glory, but as apartments or condos. There is still some change that has to happen in Thunder Bay before that happens though.

[Chadillaccc]

It would be nice if they developed the 3 other corners of the intersection of May and George with 7 - 13 story buildings and add 2 penthouse floors to the top of Royal Edward.

At least with the addition of the courthouse someone finally might be able to take a true skyline shot of Thunder Bay.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

So does this mean that the south core might have some semblance of a skyline soon?

It already does, it's just short and spread out. The courthouse is going to make a huge impact.


Looking at it from Hillcrest Park, it's kind of amazing how far away from downtown Spence Clinic is.

This photo was taken a few years ago by Rocket1964:



The courthouse will be the new tallest conventional building in downtown Fort William when completed. It is already taller than Patterson Court.

[TbayON]

Well really spread out if you consider we have two cores. If Thunder Bay had only one downtown core, it would look pretty good for a city of this size. Since its divided in half though, and we have lots of room to spread out here in Northwestern Ontario, it doesn't seem all that impressive.

[tjernobyl]

Originally Posted by TbayON

We also don't have nice, large commercial space open very often either, as Vid pointed out. If I had a few million lying around right now, I would be building a Mining Centre of Excellence and equipping it to lure businesses from far and wide here.

At the Golf Links Open House, one of the displays suggested a possible layout for Innova Park including a Mining Centre of Excellence.

Originally Posted by TbayON

Speaking of all this industrial land, I have never heard anything about who was interested in or bought the lands that the Buchanan owned sawmills sat on. I'm really interested in that, since they are pretty prime pieces of property. I know the city didn't get them.

TBNewswatch reported on November 1st that Global Recycling had purchased the buildings, and that someone was interested in the property, and that a deal could be finalized in the 'next few weeks'. However, sales of that type often take a long time to go through.

Originally Posted by vid

The city should definitely consider turning the run down residential area northeast of Downtown Port Arthur into more of a business district.

That map is actually pretty close to the current zoning. Nugent and a chunk of Villa are R2, but the rest is C5 (CBD), which does not allow new construction of single-detached homes.

[vid]

Originally Posted by tjernobyl

TBNewswatch reported on November 1st that Global Recycling had purchased the buildings, and that someone was interested in the property, and that a deal could be finalized in the 'next few weeks'. However, sales of that type often take a long time to go through.

Try explaining that kind of thing to a Thunder Bayer.

[TbayON]

Originally Posted by vid

Try explaining that kind of thing to a Thunder Bayer.

Yea no doubt eh... There was another letter to the editor in the TBSource the other day complaining that the hotelier hasn't been announced yet for the waterfront. The goof even went as far as to say that the province may pull their funding from the entire project because the private sector hasn't come through yet. Wonder what planet that guy lives on. Just a little story to illustrate exactly what you mean Vid. I was just wondering if anyone had heard any word on who was even interested.

Originally Posted by tjernobyl

At the Golf Links Open House, one of the displays suggested a possible layout for Innova Park including a Mining Centre of Excellence.

I heard that too, but I think my idea of a mining centre probably differs from what would happen there. You can put the word out there that "we want Innova Park to be home to mining companies where they can do business" and leave it at that. You may or may not get any results, it would be dependent on a number of factors like demand, if that area is attractive for mining companies and restrictions on the use of the land etc etc etc.

A more effective means, in my mind, centres on incentives, clustering and having something to draw in mining companies. This makes the difference between just offering land (which I described above) and offering a purpose made location for that type of business. Incentives will draw companies directly into Innova, whether it be from other parts of the city or other places in the world. You can't go overboard with incentives though, it was pretty disastrous for Fort William and Port Arthur in the early 1900's as you will find out if you look into the area's history. Clusters are emerging as the best way to create employment, knowledge, creative products and multiple revenue streams in one industry. It works especially well for resource-based industries. Look it up if you don't know much about it, its a great concept. The third thing you may want to include is some sort of anchor institution or collection of equipment for mining companies to access. Maybe something like the TBRRI but for mining, or just access to equipment for junior mining companies that they cannot afford themselves, but through a private-public co-op type system could be within reach. In addition, you must also have the human capital, or the people with the skills. That is currently being worked on here, and I believe we already have a pretty good work force locally.

[vid]

Originally Posted by TbayON

Yea no doubt eh... There was another letter to the editor in the TBSource the other day complaining that the hotelier hasn't been announced yet for the waterfront. The goof even went as far as to say that the province may pull their funding from the entire project because the private sector hasn't come through yet. Wonder what planet that guy lives on. Just a little story to illustrate exactly what you mean Vid. I was just wondering if anyone had heard any word on who was even interested.

The upper level funding was just to prepare the waterfront for a potential hotel/development at some point in the future, which has been done.

I haven't heard anything yet, aside from that Delta webpage someone stumbled on a while back. I'm kind of impressed with how well they've been able to keep it a secret.

A lot of the "incentives" that Port Arthur and Fort William offered in the pre-WWI era are illegal now. The biggest assets would be affordable space for start-ups and one or two established players, with good networking between them all so that the start-ups can learn how to grow effectively. We've already got this, but on a smaller or less specific scale.

[TbayON]

Originally Posted by vid

The upper level funding was just to prepare the waterfront for a potential hotel/development at some point in the future, which has been done.

Well yeah exactly. That's the point I was trying to make, but the author of that letter seemed to think otherwise. Anyhow to each their own I guess, try explaining that to a Thunder Bayer... couldn't have said it better myself.

I'm not sure what the Innova lots are worth and how affordable they are. I'm also not sure what kind of restrictions or stipulations there are on how development is to proceed on those lands. I believe at one time (maybe still... I don't know) companies buying in there were required to maintain 20% of the property as green space. Fort Garry Industries was considering going in there at one point, but something scared them off I guess because they never made the move (unless it was something internal of course and they decided to keep their present location).

[vid]

I think the lack of other entrances scared people off. If it was connected to the expressway in the first place it would be full by now.

[TbayON]

Yes that is true also. Now that it is connected to Golf Links and the Harbour Expressway, it should help. Actually, its way better than it was before. I think it would also help if the piece of Central Ave. off of west Oliver Rd. was connected to the piece that runs into Innova as well. That would either mean flying it over and putting it under the T-Bay Expressway though.

[vid]

That part of Central is too residential. (A common mistake this city has made is allowing houses to be built along what should be protected right of ways). Originally, Oliver Road was going to be re-routed down that road so that it ended near Intercity. (Within Intercity, Central was supposed to run down 11th, not 8th, which means it would end south of Walmart instead of north of it.)

The stub of Central should be renamed (just to fuck over the people who ruined the original plan for that right of way), and the rest of it should be connected to the expressway with a t-junction diamond interchange, like this:

[TbayON]

I don't think we will see that happen because of the proximity of that to both the intersections on the Thunder Bay Expressway with Oliver Rd and at the Harbour Expressway. In addition, there is little to no will on the part of the MTO (mainly high level managers here and people in Toronto to be specific) to do much more than band-aid repair jobs on the Thunder Bay Expressway at present, as the most recent facelift it got shows. I know people who have worked inside that ministry, and they have told me their "superiors" don't seem too interested in doing much with the expressway above what they just did and further more they have little to no understanding about the realities of the traffic levels/patterns etc. on it (even though they have counts, it doesn't seem to mean much to them).

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by vid

It already does, it's just short and spread out. The courthouse is going to make a huge impact.

This photo was taken a few years ago by Rocket1964:



The courthouse will be the new tallest conventional building in downtown Fort William when completed. It is already taller than Patterson Court.

Oh wow really? Isn't PC the current tallest complete building in the south core? Wow you werent kidding the courthouse is gonna make a huge impact. Awwwe I'm proud of my lil Tbay! I haven't visited in so long

That is awesome. Once that beauty is up and running someone will have to get a good pic of the new skyline and post it on the Canada section!

[vid]

Patterson Court is the tallest conventional building in the core, but Saskatchewan Pool 8 is and will continue to be its tallest building.

[toaster]

Cities of Northern Ontario Population Numbers

Greater Sudbury 160 274 (2011) +1.5%

Thunder Bay 108 359 (2011) -0.7%

Sault Ste. Marie 75 141 (2011) +0.3%

North Bay 53 651 (2011) -0.6%

Timmins 43 165 (2011) +0.4%

Kenora 15 348 (2011) +1.1%

Elliot Lake 11 348 (2011) -1.7%

Temiskaming Shores 10 400 (2011) -0.4%

Dryden 7 617 (2011) -7.1% (yikes)

[F. Lionel]

Originally Posted by vid

This photo was taken a few years ago by Rocket1964:



The courthouse will be the new tallest conventional building in downtown Fort William when completed. It is already taller than Patterson Court.

Now imagine the city adds the additional three to five floors of office space to the Victoriaville Parkade.

It's interesting to see how many of those buildings that make up the South Core have been repurposed from their original use - McKellar Hospital, FWCI, the Grain Exchange, Police Station, Royal Edward Arms, the Holiday Inn...

[F. Lionel]

Originally Posted by vid

That part of Central is too residential. (A common mistake this city has made is allowing houses to be built along what should be protected right of ways). Originally, Oliver Road was going to be re-routed down that road so that it ended near Intercity. (Within Intercity, Central was supposed to run down 11th, not 8th, which means it would end south of Walmart instead of north of it.)

The stub of Central should be renamed (just to fuck over the people who ruined the original plan for that right of way), and the rest of it should be connected to the expressway with a t-junction diamond interchange, like this:

TBayON is right that the intersections are too close for the MTO's taste but a flyover with an entrance/exit ramp on the northbound lane might be acceptable if the city pushed the issue.

That stub of Central Avenue should certainly be re-named and to hell with the people on the stub who complain. Too damn bad I say. Let the flyover be routed south of their stub without connections and build an extension to Belrose that meets up with Central. I've been house-sitting in that neighbourhood for a week now and waiting for traffic at Belrose and again at the Expressway in the morning in ridiculous.

Support for building a new road down there might find support with some land owners looking to sell portions of their property for future residential developments. When future residential development starts between Golf Links and the Expressway the intersections here are going to be quickly overwhelmed. It would be a repeat of the Red River-Expressway intersection.

[TbayON]

Originally Posted by toaster

Cities of Northern Ontario Population Numbers

Greater Sudbury 160 274 (2011) +1.5%

Thunder Bay 108 359 (2011) -0.7%

Sault Ste. Marie 75 141 (2011) +0.3%

North Bay 53 651 (2011) -0.6%

Timmins 43 165 (2011) +0.4%

Kenora 15 348 (2011) +1.1%

Elliot Lake 11 348 (2011) -1.7%

Temiskaming Shores 10 400 (2011) -0.4%

Dryden 7 617 (2011) -7.1% (yikes)

I just want to provide some additional insight on the latest StatsCan numbers from the census for population growth. Overall, the net growth for the population of Ontario is still positive, but the rate of growth is slower than the 2001 to 2006 census. As a result, many communities in Ontario have seen declining rates of growth in the last few years, so its not surprising that Thunder Bay is negative, given the overall provincial trend. Ontario has pretty hard hit by the recession (by Canadian standards) and is experiencing issues with competitiveness and a large debt burden.

Thunder Bay fared better than several communities in Ontario still. Windsor, Elliot Lake, Kawartha Lakes and Brockville all had steeper declines in population. The census also revealed after a province wide decline of 1.1% in population from 2001-2006, Saskatchewan grew at a rate of 6.7% from 2006-2011. That should provide some hope for resource based economies (like here in Thunder Bay) that things can turn around fast.

We should also remember that the numbers were measured sometime in 2011. I think it would be a pretty easy argument to make that locally and regionally we are still recovering from the recession. I think the fact that Windsor is down too shows that people needing blue collar type jobs are leaving because they cannot find work in Ontario. I would be remiss if I didn't also say that we are still facing challenges here when it comes to creating good, long term jobs in the private sector.

The latest employment figures from StatsCan for Thunder Bay and the northwest may signal a turning of the tide. On average, 1200 jobs have been created per month locally for the last 3 months. In the northwest as a whole, the number of jobs has increased an amazing 9200 positions compared to one year earlier. This represents an annual rate of employment growth of almost 10%! Its also important to note that the participation rate is way up and the latest month to month comparison indicates growth in the population of the northwest.

[softee]

North Bay's city proper saw a slight decline, but its CA population grew by 1%. The suburbs of Callander and East Ferris got all the growth.