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  #1941  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2017, 8:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Cage View Post
The province is not cutting cheques to the City until after the next election. So the threat of pulling green line funding under Bill Smith as mayor scenario is pretty small.

All we need now is for Brian Jean and Jason Kenny to jointly issue a statement saying that Calgary can do what ever it wants, the funding will be there in 2020 under a conservative government.
My understanding is that this stance from the province is nothing new. As we all know, the provincial component only came to the table once the city put forward an agreed to plan. The province refused to commit anything till there was an agreed to plan. Smith is saying he'd pull the plug on the plan, so the province is just reminding all involved that the money goes away.

Beyond the obvious, this just reinforces that Bill Smith is rather uneducated about municipal politics and the details and rigor required to move things forward. Paint brush politics can't get anything done in the real world.
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  #1942  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2017, 9:24 PM
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Frigging Bill Smith. I don't have any good choices for this election. A smarmy , annoying dude with a bad attitude who can't run a cohesive council, a guy who's overall pretty good, but is way down in the polls, or the guy who could unseat smarmy annoying guy, but doesn't seem bright enough to deserve it.

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Originally Posted by joe498 View Post
Well for any of us that thought this project was safe, think again:

Bill Smith pledges to re-evaluate Green Line route
http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...een-line-route
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  #1943  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2017, 9:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Cage View Post
The province is not cutting cheques to the City until after the next election. So the threat of pulling green line funding under Bill Smith as mayor scenario is pretty small.

All we need now is for Brian Jean and Jason Kenny to jointly issue a statement saying that Calgary can do what ever it wants, the funding will be there in 2020 under a conservative government.
But Jason Kenney has already said that he thinks something is seriously wrong with the line not going 46km like originally planned. With him we'll get a watered down not worth having piece of infrastructure.
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  #1944  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2017, 9:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca View Post
Frigging Bill Smith. I don't have any good choices for this election. A smarmy , annoying dude with a bad attitude who can't run a cohesive council, a guy who's overall pretty good, but is way down in the polls, or the guy who could unseat smarmy annoying guy, but doesn't seem bright enough to deserve it.
LOL! That's exactly how I feel. If Nenshi's attitude wasn't so frickin' bad I would vote for him. I'm definitely not voting for Smith now.
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  #1945  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2017, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca View Post
Frigging Bill Smith. I don't have any good choices for this election. A smarmy , annoying dude with a bad attitude who can't run a cohesive council, a guy who's overall pretty good, but is way down in the polls, or the guy who could unseat smarmy annoying guy, but doesn't seem bright enough to deserve it.
Vote Chabot if you want to protest vote. At least he's competent.
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  #1946  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2017, 10:32 PM
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But Jason Kenney has already said that he thinks something is seriously wrong with the line not going 46km like originally planned. With him we'll get a watered down not worth having piece of infrastructure.
Do you really want the city to repeat the mistakes of 7th Avenue downtown or 36th Street NE? Because that's what we'll get if we're unwilling to pay the cost for a future-proof piece of infrastructure, which is what the current Green Line design is.
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  #1947  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2017, 10:50 PM
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Do you really want the city to repeat the mistakes of 7th Avenue downtown or 36th Street NE? Because that's what we'll get if we're unwilling to pay the cost for a future-proof piece of infrastructure, which is what the current Green Line design is.
Yep. Short sighted bullshit that will never get fixed or cost way more to implement properly down the road.
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  #1948  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2017, 10:56 PM
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Bill Smith and the Green Line
Video Link
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  #1949  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2017, 2:15 AM
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Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
Do you really want the city to repeat the mistakes of 7th Avenue downtown or 36th Street NE? Because that's what we'll get if we're unwilling to pay the cost for a future-proof piece of infrastructure, which is what the current Green Line design is.
That's what I've been saying all along.
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  #1950  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2017, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by O-tacular View Post
He’s the worst kind of idiot: an arrogant one. Him basically saying the province is bluffing about not guaranteeing any funding if the plan gets changed is stupid brinksmanship.

I can’t believe this quote is actually real.



How can anyone take this man seriously as candidate for mayor? Voting Smith is cutting off the city’s nose to spite its’ face. People need to set personal feelings about Nenshi aside and consider the real consequences of having an ignoramus for mayor.
This Smith guy almost sounds like Rob Ford a la Toronto reincarnated!
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  #1951  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2017, 1:47 AM
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This Smith guy almost sounds like Rob Ford a la Toronto reincarnated!
Except a lot less funny or interesting.
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  #1952  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2017, 10:11 PM
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Someone was telling me they heard on the radio that some critic of the Green Line was saying this would be one of, if not the most expensive $/km transit project on the planet, anyone hear anything to this effect? Seems like political posturing to me as there are a ton of ways to measure things like this, and Calgary is small time compared to most of the rest of the world.
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  #1953  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2017, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Calgarian View Post
Someone was telling me they heard on the radio that some critic of the Green Line was saying this would be one of, if not the most expensive $/km transit project on the planet, anyone hear anything to this effect? Seems like political posturing to me as there are a ton of ways to measure things like this, and Calgary is small time compared to most of the rest of the world.
Your skepticism is correct. That is a ridiculous statement. A quick comparable is the 2nd Avenue Subway Line in NYC.

"The Second Avenue Subway (officially the IND Second Avenue Line; abbreviated to SAS) is a New York City Subway line that runs under Second Avenue on the East Side of Manhattan. The first phase of this new line opened on January 1, 2017, connecting three new stations between 96th Street and the 63rd Street Lines to the BMT Broadway Line and the rest of the subway system. The full Second Avenue Line, if and when funded, is to be built in three more phases that will eventually connect 125th Street to Hanover Square. The proposed full line would be 8.5 miles (13.7 km) long with 16 stations and a projected daily ridership of 560,000, costing more than $17 billion."
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  #1954  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2017, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Calgarian View Post
Someone was telling me they heard on the radio that some critic of the Green Line was saying this would be one of, if not the most expensive $/km transit project on the planet, anyone hear anything to this effect? Seems like political posturing to me as there are a ton of ways to measure things like this, and Calgary is small time compared to most of the rest of the world.
It's incorrect on the face of it. For example, the Spadina line extension in Toronto is costing US$ 462 million per mile (using numbers from https://www.thetransportpolitic.com/transitexplorer/). Meanwhile, phase 1 of Green Line is C$ 368 million per mile, assuming C$4.6 billion for 20 km. (Sorry for the mixed currencies and units, just working with the data I've got.)

Or how about New York's 2nd Ave subway line, at US$2,400 million per mile?

I don't mean to say that we ought to directly compare Green Line to the Spadina extension or 2nd Ave subway. But anyone claiming/whining that Green Line is "too expensive" needs to find a similar mixed-tunneled/surface/elevated project in North America or western Europe to make any kind of comparison.

If the complainer wishes to say "it's too fancy because of the tunneling, we shouldn't do that, shouldn't spend money on it", ok, go for it. Then explain how it will impact surface traffic even more than current plans.
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  #1955  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2017, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Calgarian View Post
Someone was telling me they heard on the radio that some critic of the Green Line was saying this would be one of, if not the most expensive $/km transit project on the planet, anyone hear anything to this effect? Seems like political posturing to me as there are a ton of ways to measure things like this, and Calgary is small time compared to most of the rest of the world.
The devil is always in the details. If you were to divide the line into sections and look at, say, the underground downtown section, the cost /km would be off the scale expensive. Or if you were to take the entire cost of the line and compare that to a line in China where there are weak environmental regulations and dirt cheap labour and materials it would be again compare unfavorably. However, compared to a line in a place like Japan or New york where land is crazy expensive it would likely be cheap.

You're right to be suspicious, critics these days all to often use misleading or outright false 'facts' to dump all over things that they are against for whatever reason. At the end of the day, the cost has to make sense for where the project is being done. That means that the cost has to be reasonable for the particulars of Calgary Alberta after considering how the line is designed (underground downtown) and where it's going to go throughout the city.
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  #1956  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2017, 10:43 PM
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The BS that gets passed on as fact these days is quite disturbing...
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  #1957  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2017, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by CrossedTheTracks View Post
It's incorrect on the face of it. For example, the Spadina line extension in Toronto is costing US$ 462 million per mile (using numbers from https://www.thetransportpolitic.com/transitexplorer/). Meanwhile, phase 1 of Green Line is C$ 368 million per mile, assuming C$4.6 billion for 20 km. (Sorry for the mixed currencies and units, just working with the data I've got.)

Or how about New York's 2nd Ave subway line, at US$2,400 million per mile?

I don't mean to say that we ought to directly compare Green Line to the Spadina extension or 2nd Ave subway. But anyone claiming/whining that Green Line is "too expensive" needs to find a similar mixed-tunneled/surface/elevated project in North America or western Europe to make any kind of comparison.

If the complainer wishes to say "it's too fancy because of the tunneling, we shouldn't do that, shouldn't spend money on it", ok, go for it. Then explain how it will impact surface traffic even more than current plans.
The people complaining about the cost should watch this video on the Second Avenue Subway and learn the importance of going underground.

Video Link
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  #1958  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2017, 10:58 PM
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Sadly I think the current proposal is the only realistic proposal, not tunneling right now would leave us with another 50+ years of at grade LRT and we have all seen how much of a shit show that creates. My feeling is Bill Smith would make this the cheapest possible transit line and that would mean eliminating the tunnel. A good comparison is the LRT in Edmonton and Calgary, we cheaped out on burying the downtown portion and ended up with a far more extensive system as a result. We also have to rip up the track every long weekend it seems, and there are far too many interruptions to the system based on the train hitting cars or pedestrians who shouldn't be on the tracks. We can live with what we have now, but shouldn't make the same mistake moving forward.
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  #1959  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2017, 1:12 AM
CrossedTheTracks CrossedTheTracks is offline
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Seattle's Eastlink extension is at least superficially comparable. 22.4 km for C$4,625 million (US$3.7 billion at today's exchange rates), with a mix of tunneled, elevated, and surface. Not sure what the precise mix of each mode is though.
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  #1960  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2017, 3:02 AM
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Sadly I think the current proposal is the only realistic proposal, not tunneling right now would leave us with another 50+ years of at grade LRT and we have all seen how much of a shit show that creates. My feeling is Bill Smith would make this the cheapest possible transit line and that would mean eliminating the tunnel. A good comparison is the LRT in Edmonton and Calgary, we cheaped out on burying the downtown portion and ended up with a far more extensive system as a result. We also have to rip up the track every long weekend it seems, and there are far too many interruptions to the system based on the train hitting cars or pedestrians who shouldn't be on the tracks. We can live with what we have now, but shouldn't make the same mistake moving forward.
I have to wonder if Bill Smith, or anyone else poo-poo'ing the proposed tunneling has even used the current system and experienced it's pitfalls. He should be forced to use transit for a week in various routings to get a real feel for what's bad, and good, about our system before canceling projects on a whim!
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