Winnipeg City Transit/Rapid Transit

[GORDBO]

Just like the stadium. the longer they put it off. The more it will cost!

[roccerfeller]

Yeah.

At least the Phase 1 corridor is supposed to be done by the end of 2011 guys


Next year will be interested regarding the RT issues...they seemed to at least be a hot topic during elections

[armorand93]

Sorry about not putting it on the thread, but 382 pages is too long for me to read.



RED Line: Follows Parts 1 and 2 of the current SW Corridor Plan, PLUS an extension from Balmoral Terminal (or underground station perhaps if LRT), to Polo Park via St. Matthews Avenue. Should free up alot of bus routes, which could then service "suburbia", or the two other BRT lines

BLUE Line: It'd start at Headingley with a Park and Ride station (and bus route servicing RM of Headingley). keeps on going down Portage, with stops in Unicity, Westwood, Moray and Assiniboine Park. Brief stop at Polo, and continuing on towards the Airport.

ORANGE Line: Cheif Peguis, down Main. Stops down Portage, and keeps going down Osborne. Then, it'd go into St. Vital, and continue down Bishop Grandin to the Sage Creek area, incase of any future development.

GREEN Line: Transcona, though the Marion industrial park, then underground near the future CMHR. Spur line off of Union Station, which would go onto (or under) Graham til about Cityplace. It'd then go north, using the CP Yards (due to maybe be moved WAY NW of Winnipeg, which means LOTS of transit-oriented development opporitunites). Go up Keewatin, and end at Inkster. Should service the maples region, along with Amber Trails and any other development

ALSO!!! THOUGHTS ON FUTURE BUS ROUTES (mwahahah):

4: Central Park - The Forks
5: Maples - Airport
6: Waverley West - U of M (or Bison LRT Station)
7: Headingley BRT Shuttlebus (30 foot bus most likely)
8: CentrePort Canada - Corydon Avenue Busloop
9: CentrePort Canada - Charleswood
13: Waverley West - St. Vital Centre
23: CentrePort Canada - Unicity
73: Oak Bluff - Unicity (Super-Express)

SERVICE CHANGES:
11: Kildolnan - Downtown ONLY
16: Island Lakes - St. Marys BRT Station
18: Assiniboine Park - Downtown ONLY
25: Strauss/Murray Industrial Park - Polo Park (pretty much the ness avenue version of the 21 during peak hours)
27: Red River College - Inkster Gardens
"30s" University Routes: ABOLISHED! Use those buse's for improved commute time and stuff
40s Transcona Routes: Re-routed to Feed from Transcona and East Winnipeg only, towards the LRT route or BRT across the Red River.
50s St. Vital Routes: Keep those, but emphasize service in Aldgate and area
62: Turnbull - Bison LRT
65/66: HEAVY addition of buses to these routes
77: Improved Service
80/81: More Buses
82: St. Charles - Crestview - Westwood
83: More Buses
DART System: Abolish

Any additional thoughts? Go ahead and comment haha. Could use others opinions!

[vid]

[The Jabroni]

Coming from a person who lives in Thunder Bay, not bad! :O

Happy New Year, btw.

[dennis]

^ that looked like the Wilson subway plan way back when.
EDIT: Happy New Year!

[1ajs]

it is the wilson subway plan vid just made a better looking one


-----------------------------


sorry but we don't need multiple threads for the same thing merged

[armorand93]

my plan is better, and a bit more reasonable (no offence, i'd like a subway too, but winnipeg cant afford it sadly). LRT for the north, south and east, while theres BRT for the southeast and west. also listed some bus routes as well, since all those bus routes off the road need to go into something or somehwere!

[rrskylar]

So East and North Kildonan don't warrant a route even though close to 20% of Winnipeg's population reside there?

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

So East and North Kildonan don't warrant a route even though close to 20% of Winnipeg's population reside there?

I'm assuming he lives in the south. His post also suggests canceling the 18 north of downtown, with seemingly nothing to replace it, as well as stopping the main street BRT 2km short of hitting where 10,000+ people live.

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by armorand93

Sorry about not putting it on the thread, but 382 pages is too long for me to read.



RED Line: Follows Parts 1 and 2 of the current SW Corridor Plan, PLUS an extension from Balmoral Terminal (or underground station perhaps if LRT), to Polo Park via St. Matthews Avenue. Should free up alot of bus routes, which could then service "suburbia", or the two other BRT lines

BLUE Line: It'd start at Headingley with a Park and Ride station (and bus route servicing RM of Headingley). keeps on going down Portage, with stops in Unicity, Westwood, Moray and Assiniboine Park. Brief stop at Polo, and continuing on towards the Airport.

ORANGE Line: Cheif Peguis, down Main. Stops down Portage, and keeps going down Osborne. Then, it'd go into St. Vital, and continue down Bishop Grandin to the Sage Creek area, incase of any future development.

GREEN Line: Transcona, though the Marion industrial park, then underground near the future CMHR. Spur line off of Union Station, which would go onto (or under) Graham til about Cityplace. It'd then go north, using the CP Yards (due to maybe be moved WAY NW of Winnipeg, which means LOTS of transit-oriented development opporitunites). Go up Keewatin, and end at Inkster. Should service the maples region, along with Amber Trails and any other development

ALSO!!! THOUGHTS ON FUTURE BUS ROUTES (mwahahah):

4: Central Park - The Forks
5: Maples - Airport
6: Waverley West - U of M (or Bison LRT Station)
7: Headingley BRT Shuttlebus (30 foot bus most likely)
8: CentrePort Canada - Corydon Avenue Busloop
9: CentrePort Canada - Charleswood
13: Waverley West - St. Vital Centre
23: CentrePort Canada - Unicity
73: Oak Bluff - Unicity (Super-Express)

SERVICE CHANGES:
11: Kildolnan - Downtown ONLY
16: Island Lakes - St. Marys BRT Station
18: Assiniboine Park - Downtown ONLY
25: Strauss/Murray Industrial Park - Polo Park (pretty much the ness avenue version of the 21 during peak hours)
27: Red River College - Inkster Gardens
"30s" University Routes: ABOLISHED! Use those buse's for improved commute time and stuff
40s Transcona Routes: Re-routed to Feed from Transcona and East Winnipeg only, towards the LRT route or BRT across the Red River.
50s St. Vital Routes: Keep those, but emphasize service in Aldgate and area
62: Turnbull - Bison LRT
65/66: HEAVY addition of buses to these routes
77: Improved Service
80/81: More Buses
82: St. Charles - Crestview - Westwood
83: More Buses
DART System: Abolish

Any additional thoughts? Go ahead and comment haha. Could use others opinions!

wow good job on making this and the logistics behind it. well done man, this is pretty cohesive.

That said, on the logistic scale, I only agree with the Red line you have layed out.

the others could be tweaked here and there, like the orange line should move east into EK, like bend from where you positioned the triangle.

EK is really isolated imo, and there are tons of people living there.

one of the reasons that subway plan vid posted works well is cause the lines bend around, and overlap at certain places. This allows for more customary travel.

I think Winnipeg's RT routes should not follow how Calgary and Edmonton are setting theirs up which are more linear but work for their cities. Our city is more dense with less freeways (we dont have a "real" freeway) and expressways so I think the RT need not be as linear.

Great job otherwise man

[1ajs]

actualy theres an old rail bed the city owns thsat goes way north of the city that could serve EK

[bicycles]

my map:

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&...4848e6846550a4

with the VIA Rail station forming the central station for the system.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

actualy theres an old rail bed the city owns thsat goes way north of the city that could serve EK

Is it the one that is parallel between Gateway and Raleigh? If so, then yes, then a line through that area would have made sense in that drawing.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

wow good job on making this and the logistics behind it. well done man, this is pretty cohesive.

That said, on the logistic scale, I only agree with the Red line you have layed out.

the others could be tweaked here and there, like the orange line should move east into EK, like bend from where you positioned the triangle.

EK is really isolated imo, and there are tons of people living there.

one of the reasons that subway plan vid posted works well is cause the lines bend around, and overlap at certain places. This allows for more customary travel.

I think Winnipeg's RT routes should not follow how Calgary and Edmonton are setting theirs up which are more linear but work for their cities. Our city is more dense with less freeways (we dont have a "real" freeway) and expressways so I think the RT need not be as linear.

Great job otherwise man

not bad for a 17 year old, eh? haha

orange could be extended down the new part of cheif peguis then, ending up at a loop around lagimodiere. i didnt think of that one lol. deff true about isolation. only two routes to downtown if im right (11,41).

i like the subway, BUT winnipegs poor. we'd be lucky to get a subway from the u of m to winnipeg square, nevermind a three-line network. also, this plan would satisfy katz (LRT) and others (BRT) in Winnipeg. Only areas not under access would be Charleswood and St. norbert (although red could extend to Turnbull and have a Park n Ride for out-of-town commuters).

our citys kinda like edmonton, so theres definitely gonna be some resemblence to them. calgary though, not at all. also, think of how dizzying it'd be to have LRT go across the Assiniboine from Unicity to Downtown a dozen times! hahahah but if its BRT though, it could go across a few times. that, or i could plop a route down corydon

thanks man!

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by bicycles

my map:

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&...4848e6846550a4

with the VIA Rail station forming the central station for the system.

bicycles, I really like your version here. For your idea though, how does your hub work and then branch out onto the streets? Does it sacrifice roads anywhere? I am interested in the lines that go down broadway too...I assume they go through the middle section there...but then how would that work or be coordinated with the traffic? Would the trees be removed or would a lane be sacrificed?

I feel like the biggest issue with Winnipeg and RT is similar to Vancouver's...there is no space.

I wonder how they plan to make the corridor during phase 2 of the RT line going down (parallel) to Pembina, and if that plays a role with how the future lines will be along major roads.

Originally Posted by The Jabroni

Is it the one that is parallel between Gateway and Raleigh? If so, then yes, then a line through that area would have made sense in that drawing.

That would be perfect for RT, but didnt they just convert it into a bike path or something?

Originally Posted by armorand93

not bad for a 17 year old, eh? haha

orange could be extended down the new part of cheif peguis then, ending up at a loop around lagimodiere. i didnt think of that one lol. deff true about isolation. only two routes to downtown if im right (11,41).

i like the subway, BUT winnipegs poor. we'd be lucky to get a subway from the u of m to winnipeg square, nevermind a three-line network. also, this plan would satisfy katz (LRT) and others (BRT) in Winnipeg. Only areas not under access would be Charleswood and St. norbert (although red could extend to Turnbull and have a Park n Ride for out-of-town commuters).

our citys kinda like edmonton, so theres definitely gonna be some resemblence to them. calgary though, not at all. also, think of how dizzying it'd be to have LRT go across the Assiniboine from Unicity to Downtown a dozen times! hahahah but if its BRT though, it could go across a few times. that, or i could plop a route down corydon

thanks man!

Not bad for a 17 year old at all! Quite visionary for a dude your age. You should consider city planning or something going into Uni, if that's what youre into.

I agree that affording subway is out of Winnipeg's pocketbook, although I am a firm believer in "where there is a will there is a way" (some cities in Europe much smaller in both population and size than Winnipeg have subway systems by way of all levels of government subsidy plus city contribution. The big factor here though is that European cities are transit oriented far more than North American cities, especially the cities in the Praries). Regardless, what I meant re: the subway plan vid posted was not suggesting we should go for subway (which dont be surprised if that talk comes up once we have had Phase 1 + 2 completed and running for a while, looking towards future phases) but rather suggesting that the way that the lines bend and curve and intersect, really was done very well. If you look at that plan, it is just smartly designed. I feel that when you are above ground obviously you cannot bend and curve like that, but you can certainly make lines intersect with a little bit of originality.

Alas that is a small nitpick which has no fruition, because the future phases will be drawn closer to what you and bicyles, and others have posted.


I also think that, while yes it is true Winnipeg and Edmonton are similar as cities and have similar cultures, they are also very different in a lot of ways. Primarily, their RT plan works the way it does because of how it follows their infrastructure. Winnipeg as a city has different terrain (there are no valleys downtown, nor are there any freeways in Winnipeg; Winnipeg is much flatter than Edmonton and not as spread out nor as many large surrounding municipalities, plus I believe ratio-wise we are more dense)

So while looking to Edmonton's books for something business oriented like the NHL might be wise, looking to Edmonton's RT system is only wise from structural aspects (what they used, how they coordinate traffic) and not on the planning level. Our city is designed differently to that extent.

Keep up the design work tho sir.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

I wonder how they plan to make the corridor during phase 2 of the RT line going down Pembina, and if that plays a role with how the future lines will be along major roads.

It will be along side the rail line just as with phase 1. New RT overpasses over Pembina and over Bishop Grandin, grade crossings at other roads.

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by Kinguni

It will be along side the rail line just as with phase 1. New RT overpasses over Pembina and over Bishop Grandin, grade crossings at other roads.

Ah yes, my bad, that's what I meant - parallel to Pembina.

So I assume hypothetical future lines would be following a similar pattern...following past/in use train lines.

Is the Jubilee bridge construction at all related to the RT corridor? Or is the new overpass you mentioned going to be separate?

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

Ah yes, my bad, that's what I meant - parallel to Pembina.

So I assume hypothetical future lines would be following a similar pattern...following past/in use train lines.

Is the Jubilee bridge construction at all related to the RT corridor? Or is the new overpass you mentioned going to be separate?

Hypothetically, yes. Future RT plans all follow rail or abandoned rail lines, except for on street operations of course. To be determined will be the river crossing to Transcona, either following the route of the CNR high line, or more likely as part of a realigned Higgins river crossing to replace the Louis Bridge. Once across the river there can be 3 branches, east north and south.

This summer's Jubilee Overpass refurbishing had little to do with RT, other than ensuring it would be ready for use by RT buses. It was planned for the near future though. The BRT overpass will be separate.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

That would be perfect for RT, but didnt they just convert it into a bike path or something?

Yes they did, but I think that they will eventually turn that into a rapid transit line, alongside the bike path. I mean, it's the only sensible and logical thing to place a line there, and use the bike path to reserve land for it.