EVANSTON | 708 Church St. (Fountain Square Tower) | 409 FT| 35 FLOORS

[Alliance]

Haha. Oh what suburbanietes will do for pointless retail.

*carrot on stick* But it'lll have a starbucks!!! *waves in front of suburbanite face*

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Alliance

Haha. Oh what suburbanietes will do for pointless retail.

i hardly consider grocery stores to be "pointless retail". in fact, in the grand scheme of things, i find them to be one of the most essential types of retail that makes neighborhoods livable.

but in the end, it doesn't matter because the grocery store is what got the project approved, which is good news for those of us who want to see continued urbanization in downtown evanston. 13 stories of residents and a grocery store is a much better use for the land in question than for it to remain the vacant 2 story office building it has been for the last several years.

[Alliance]

it was more a mock of endless obsessions with such typical stores like "Trader Joes"

Certianly the building is a good move up, I just laughed at what actually got it approved.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Alliance

it was more a mock of endless obsessions with such typical stores like "Trader Joes"

Certianly the building is a good move up, I just laughed at what actually got it approved.

well, it wasn't trader joe's that convinced the councilman to approve, it was merely the inclusion of a grocery retailer, any grocery retailer. the developer just threw trader joe's out there as a potential tenant because he has a letter of interest from them, but nothing seems to be finalized at this point in time.

[Marcu]

Originally Posted by Alliance

it was more a mock of endless obsessions with such typical stores like "Trader Joes"

Certianly the building is a good move up, I just laughed at what actually got it approved.

I hardly consider Trader Joe's a typical store. It's one of the best grocery stores out there. Even more reason to be excited about this building.

[Marcu]

This project keeps gaining steam and about time the NIMBYS illogical argument of more people/business = bad for existing local business got shot down.

http://www.evanstonnow.com/tower-gets-business-backing

Tower project opponents have portrayed local business owners as big losers if the 49-story building is added to Evanston's downtown Fountain Square block.

But some local merchants and service providers weren't buying the victim role when they testified at the Plan Commission hearing on the project Thursday.

Daniel Kelch, owner of Lulu's restaurant at 804 Davis St., said of claims high-rise developments have a negative effect on small businesses "nothing could be further from the truth.

http://www.evanstonnow.com/tower-gets-business-backing

[Dr. Taco]

Originally Posted by Marcu

I hardly consider Trader Joe's a typical store. It's one of the best grocery stores out there. Even more reason to be excited about this building.

yeah, if i was on the edge about a building in my neighborhood, and I heard they were opening a trader joe's, that'd win me over in a second

My shit neighborhood could sure use one...

[Equilibria]

There's already a Whole Foods, though. What this neighborhood needed was a Staples or OfficeMax... but that doesn't have quite the appeal to the city fathers.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Equilibria

There's already a Whole Foods, though.

whole foods and trader joe's are entirely different stores that market to entirely different classes of people. whole foods is like shopping at prada, trader joe's is more like sears.

[forumly_chgoman]

Originally Posted by Marcu

This project keeps gaining steam and about time the NIMBYS illogical argument of more people/business = bad for existing local business got shot down.

http://www.evanstonnow.com/tower-gets-business-backing

Tower project opponents have portrayed local business owners as big losers if the 49-story building is added to Evanston's downtown Fountain Square block.

But some local merchants and service providers weren't buying the victim role when they testified at the Plan Commission hearing on the project Thursday.

Daniel Kelch, owner of Lulu's restaurant at 804 Davis St., said of claims high-rise developments have a negative effect on small businesses "nothing could be further from the truth.

http://www.evanstonnow.com/tower-gets-business-backing

I think what the argument that these big developments are bad for local business really refers to are locally owned operated stores, not chains. There is anecdotal and as far as I know some empirical evidence that these large development cater more to chain style stores, they are more able to afford the rents in these new units than locally owned operated who cannot. There is also evidence that in such developments money spent in these chain style stores tends to flow out of the community, whereas money spent at locally owned operated has a higher incidence of remaining w/in the community.

I do not think this argument is completlly w/out merit, but it raises another issue of the costs of rents these newer places are charging

[Marcu]

^ Even if that assumption is correct, it is not a legitimate reason to halt a development in an area. And even if there is conclusive evidence that preventing construction will keep chains out, the other consequences and side effects are so detrimental (eg less affordable housing due to shortage of housing, less choices for consumers, loss of street life, loss of property taxes, loss of density around transit stations, etc.) that it's just not worth it.

Also, it is highly suspect that the "local businesses" the article cites as opposing this building are competing land owners in the downtown Evanston.

[forumly_chgoman]

Well...I never said it was a reason to halt construction I merely said that the argument is not completely w/out merit.

Your reply reeks of false choice or law of excluded middle

I am actually for this development. But I certainly can understand the concern that local merchants may have. There are many small, independent style shops in Evanston that could be negatively impacted by this development...notice I said could , not would. This point is at least worth investigating instead of dismissing it out of hand.

As to your point about lost tax revenues...perhaps.....but lets assume that many of these smaller independent shops are owned & employ local residents. If they are harmed or run under it could pose similar tax risks as you described on the positive side.

Oh and by the way the notion that halting this construction would harm affordable housing is laughable......at least as far as I know.....if I am wrong I am sorry....but I do not believe this development has any set asides for affordable housing. Just look at Sherman Plaza across the street.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by forumly_chgoman

Oh and by the way the notion that halting this construction would harm affordable housing is laughable......at least as far as I know.....if I am wrong I am sorry....but I do not believe this development has any set asides for affordable housing. Just look at Sherman Plaza across the street.

this development would not include any on-site affordable housing units, but the developers will be required to donate money to evanston's affordable housing fund to get out of the affordable housing requirement, just as was done with sherman plaza across the street and all other recent highrise residential developments in downtown evanston. the effectiveness of those affordable housing funds is certainly up for debate.

as for the other issue about large developments and small independent retailers, it's important to note that the local business owner who spoke up in favor of the project at the plan commission meeting was the owner of Lulu's restaruant, a small, independent, locally-owned, non-chain restaurant. so clearly not everyone in the small-business owners community is on the same page regarding large developments and their business's financial well-being.

also, the point raised by one of the opposition speakers about evanston needing more office space instead of residential space is irrelevant when you consider that residential projects in downtown evanston have all met with good success while at the same time there is a completely vacant office building that's only about 10 years old on the northside of downtown. evanston will simply never be a significant suburban commercial office center like schaumburg, rosemont, or oak brook because it is much to far away from convenient expressway access.

[Marcu]

Originally Posted by forumly_chgoman

Oh and by the way the notion that halting this construction would harm affordable housing is laughable......at least as far as I know.....if I am wrong I am sorry....but I do not believe this development has any set asides for affordable housing. Just look at Sherman Plaza across the street.

Affordable housing contributions are not what I was referring to (as Steely pointed out their effects are highly disputed and they usually place a great burden on the middle class that aren't poor enough to get the units marked as "affordable" and not rich enough to pay the extra markup on the market rate units resulting from the mandatory contribution. As we know housing is highly inelastic with high barriers to entry and almost all costs put on the developers are passed directly the the buyers).

I was simply referring to a basic supply/demand argument. The best way to assure that downtown Evanston stays affordable is to allow for adequate supply. Richer people will relocate from older, less luxurious buildings to new construction making the older units more affordable for people with average incomes. We're seeing this play out with the Loop office market, where all the new construction has made older office buildings much more affordable for small businesses that may otherwise have moved to the burbs or gone under.

A sure way to keep affordable housing out is to artifically restrict supply in an area.

I am actually for this development. But I certainly can understand the concern that local merchants may have. There are many small, independent style shops in Evanston that could be negatively impacted by this development...notice I said could , not would. This point is at least worth investigating instead of dismissing it out of hand.

I agree with you. There is certainly a possibility that this will negatively effect small businesses. After all, I doubt [insert pretentious overpriced boutique] can compete with [insert generic trendy chain that likes new-urban settings]. But as I point out, even if we assume that the argument that this will negatively effect small businesses is true, it is still not worth wasting time and money on an investigation since that alone is not worth stopping development. There is no point of investigating just for the sake of investigating.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Marcu

A sure way to keep affordable housing out is to artifically restrict supply in an area.

yep. see "san francisco" for reference.

[Steely Dan]

evanstonnow.com's article about wednesday evening's plan commision hearing about the tower.



Tower, downtown plan slip together
Submitted by Bill Smith on Thu, 10/11/2007 - 5:09pm.

Folks who thought the Fountain Square tower project shouldn't be voted on until a new downtown plan was in place may be coming closer to getting their wish.

full article: http://www.evanstonnow.com/tower-dow...-slip-together

[Steely Dan]

here's an article from evanstonnow.com about the proposed downtown zoning plan and it's possible development implications. the article has a pretty cool image showing potential redevelopment sites downtown and what their maximum massing could look like under the new proposed zoning rules.


Squeeze play for development
Submitted by Bill Smith on Tue, 10/30/2007 - 7:40pm.

Downtown Evanston has barely enough potential development sites to accommodate projected market demand over the next decade, assuming new zoning limits in the draft downtown plan are adopted.

read the full article: http://www.evanstonnow.com/squeeze-play-for-development

[CHAPINM1]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

evanstonnow.com's article about wednesday evening's plan commision hearing about the tower.



Tower, downtown plan slip together
Submitted by Bill Smith on Thu, 10/11/2007 - 5:09pm.

Folks who thought the Fountain Square tower project shouldn't be voted on until a new downtown plan was in place may be coming closer to getting their wish.

full article: http://www.evanstonnow.com/tower-dow...-slip-together

Great to see this one still very active! I was wondering what was going on with this project. It appears to be mostly good news, I can't complain about that.

With downtown Evanston becoming as dense as it is, the only way to build is up. The city officials are finally getting it through their heads that building up is going to be the only option, let alone the most practical. The idea of building highrises after a while will sink in more and more people will be less obective to it.

Thank you for keeping this very much upated.

[spyguy]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,3725621.story

In Evanston, voices rise over City Council's high-rise dealings

By Deborah Horan
November 1, 2007

As plans for a sleek downtown spire move forward, an increasingly vocal group of Evanston residents is worried the City Council has conducted behind-the-scenes conversations with developers that may facilitate construction of the 523-foot tower without regard for their concerns.

[Steely Dan]

well, the vocal minority, sensing the way the wind appears to be blowing, is grasping for straws now. no surprise there.