Best Public Space/Piazza in the USA

[cjreisen]

Hey Guys,

There are a number of articles on the value of piazzas in europe and the community building and vibrancy they create. I have pasted them below. I recall reading that at the time of my reading only one piazza existed in the USA, that being the Piazza, a private development in Philadelphia. Some other public spaces that function similarly come to mind, primarily Market Square in Pittsburgh, the new USC village in Los Angeles, Pioneer Courthouse Square in Portland.

However, only two true piazzas outside Philadelphia exist that I've seen. The Grove Plaza in Boise, and USC Village in Los ANgeles. As a piazza is a public space surrounded on four sides by buildings with no automobiles allowed, no roads. Do you perhaps know of other examples of this in America? If not, what public spaces do you believe to be superior in the US?


https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/ita...f-public-space
http://www.travel-studies.com/blogs/...merican-square

[Steely Dan]

shit. i read the thread title too fast.

i thought this was gonna be about Pizza.

[cjreisen]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

shit. i read the thread title too fast.

i thought this was gonna be about Pizza.

Very lame response

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by cjreisen

Very lame response

Come on, piazza and pizza look similar. And we like pizza a lot around here!

[cjreisen]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Come on, piazza and pizza look similar. And we like pizza a lot around here!

Jokes are fine in tandem with productive responses, but that's juvenile easy humor, anyone would think pizza, it's one letter off. At least be funnier.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by cjreisen

Jokes are fine in tandem with productive responses, but that's juvenile easy humor, anyone would think pizza, it's one letter off. At least be funnier.

i wasn't joking.

i would never joke about my faith.

i just read the title too fast. i always have Pizza on my brain.


carry on....

[CaliNative]

Originally Posted by cjreisen

Jokes are fine in tandem with productive responses, but that's juvenile easy humor, anyone would think pizza, it's one letter off. At least be funnier.

How about this--was Mike Piazza the best catcher ever and deserve to be in the Hall of Fame? He did hit more home runs than Berra or Bench. He went in as a Met, not a Dodger. That annoys me, buts the Dogs did trade him. So Piazza choose to go in the Hall as a Met.

About the public space piazza--Central Park? Surrounded by buildings, but too big? Union Square in S.F.? Millenium Park in Chicago? Pershing Square in L.A. could be better if they made it more inviting. Boston Commons? Lots of public spaces in Washington D.C., like the National Mall.

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

shit. i read the thread title too fast.

i thought this was gonna be about Pizza.

Pizza? I thought it was gonna be about Mike Piazza (not really but someone had to say it).

[ardecila]

We don't really do street closures in the US. There are plenty of great urban squares in the US, they just have a ring of streets surrounding them before the buildings begin. Most US cities are a grid, so usually this is just an open block in the grid with dense development on each side.

To my mind, the most important thing is a consistent wall of buildings around the public space that provide solid walls to the urban "room". Having it be entirely pedestrianized is nice but not strictly necessary. I'd also add, for a piazza, that most of the space be paved and not vegetated, with few or no trees, and the space must function as a civic gathering place and not just a recreational zone or green space. In this category you could put parts of Union Square in NY, Pioneer Courthouse Square in Portland, Union Square in SF, Daley Plaza in Chicago, Faneuil Hall Square in Boston, etc. Also some nice ones in surprising places, like Sundance Square in Fort Worth.

Unfortunately in a lot of cases the American fetish for landscaping and "escaping the concrete jungle" means that most open spaces in cities became green spaces, where the desire to "protect the grass" and "protect the trees" severely limits the activities that are legally allowed.

[tdawg]

Isn't a piazza just a public square/plaza? We have so many of those here in New York City. I'm thinking of the plaza at Lincoln Center & Rockefeller Center Plaza, in particular.

Lincoln Center Plaza:

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by tdawg

Isn't a piazza just a public square/plaza? We have so many of those here in New York City. I'm thinking of the plaza at Lincoln Center & Rockefeller Center Plaza, in particular.

Lincoln Center Plaza:

I think you'd want to avoid spaces that are part of a master-planned complex. Occasionally this works, but usually it just creates a boring monoculture and an environment where people don't feel comfortable unless they're following a certain script (for example, could you use a skateboard in Lincoln Center or Rockefeller?) Lincoln Center in particular has a modernist site plan, so the edges of the plaza (perceptually) are fluid and not well-defined.

Private ownership can be okay, though. Zuccotti Park feels very piazza-like, although the Occupy Wall Street eviction raises some great questions about what exactly should be allowed in these spaces.

[mhays]

Skateboards are obnoxious. But agreed about public space vs. monocultures.

[ardecila]

You know what they say about opinions!

Skateboarders can be obnoxious, but they can also be decent people. We don't ban basketball players from parks or saw off hoops just because some folks play aggressively or trash-talk.

I think it's important we recognize skateboarding as A) a valid and healthy form of recreation, just as worthy as other physical activities and B) skateboarders are members of the public with every right to use public space, so long as it doesn't interfere with others or cause excessive physical damage to public property.

Anyway, I personally think skateboarders should be welcome in piazza-type spaces, especially at off-times (weekday mornings, etc) when these spaces are pretty dead otherwise.

[Cirrus]

OP's definition is pretty narrow. The US has tons of spaces that fulfill basically the same purpose, but don't quite meet OP's exacting requirements of buildings on all 4 sides with no street between the buildings & plaza.

• Small urban parks like Bryant Park, Dupont Circle, and Rittenhouse Square, separated by streets and with some grass, but otherwise very similar in function to a piazza
• Pedestrian malls, essentially long narrow piazzas but with buildings on only 2 sides.
• New urbanist town squares, like this one that meets the requirement except it only has buildings on 3 sides, or like this one that meets the requirement except there are narrow streets on two of the four sides.
• Smaller public plazas with buildings on all four sides but maybe streets on one or two, like this one
• Spanish colonial town squares like Santa Fe, which have streets consistent with their Spanish progenitors
• Linear spaces like riverwalks that are basically long narrow one-sided piazzas. San Antonio of cource is the famous one, but there are tons of smaller ones
• I'm sure I could go on

So yeah, I mean, it's hard to come up with exact examples in the US, and that's totally interesting to realize. But it's not like we don't have analogues.

[cjreisen]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

OP's definition is pretty narrow. The US has tons of spaces that fulfill basically the same purpose, but don't quite meet OP's exacting requirements of buildings on all 4 sides with no street between the buildings & plaza.

• Small urban parks like Bryant Park, Dupont Circle, and Rittenhouse Square, separated by streets and with some grass, but otherwise very similar in function to a piazza
• Pedestrian malls, essentially long narrow piazzas but with buildings on only 2 sides.
• New urbanist town squares, like this one that meets the requirement except it only has buildings on 3 sides, or like this one that meets the requirement except there are narrow streets on two of the four sides.
• Smaller public plazas with buildings on all four sides but maybe streets on one or two, like this one
• Spanish colonial town squares like Santa Fe, which have streets consistent with their Spanish progenitors
• Linear spaces like riverwalks that are basically long narrow one-sided piazzas. San Antonio of cource is the famous one, but there are tons of smaller ones
• I'm sure I could go on

So yeah, I mean, it's hard to come up with exact examples in the US, and that's totally interesting to realize. But it's not like we don't have analogues.

This was a very thorough and intelligent response, the DC area certainly carries its weight in good urban planning. I sense a piazza or town square type development is in the making, given how dense the suburbs there are becoming. To provide the pinnacle of an example, I want to show the one I mentioned, USC village in Los Angeles, as it's so perfect, and an ideal piazza in my mind:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0254...!7i8704!8i4352

And the piazza in Philly, which is a more contemporary example:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9662...!7i8704!8i4352

[cjreisen]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

OP's definition is pretty narrow. The US has tons of spaces that fulfill basically the same purpose, but don't quite meet OP's exacting requirements of buildings on all 4 sides with no street between the buildings & plaza.

• Small urban parks like Bryant Park, Dupont Circle, and Rittenhouse Square, separated by streets and with some grass, but otherwise very similar in function to a piazza
• Pedestrian malls, essentially long narrow piazzas but with buildings on only 2 sides.
• New urbanist town squares, like this one that meets the requirement except it only has buildings on 3 sides, or like this one that meets the requirement except there are narrow streets on two of the four sides.
• Smaller public plazas with buildings on all four sides but maybe streets on one or two, like this one
• Spanish colonial town squares like Santa Fe, which have streets consistent with their Spanish progenitors
• Linear spaces like riverwalks that are basically long narrow one-sided piazzas. San Antonio of cource is the famous one, but there are tons of smaller ones
• I'm sure I could go on

So yeah, I mean, it's hard to come up with exact examples in the US, and that's totally interesting to realize. But it's not like we don't have analogues.

Also, I think you're on the right track, so I'm curious, what do you think are the best examples you've experienced? Even analogues that don't specifically qualify as piazzas?

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by cjreisen

If not, what public spaces do you believe to be superior in the US?

Point State Park in Pittsburgh is regarded as one of the best urban public spaces in the US

[hauntedheadnc]

I don't know that any one of Savannah's squares alone would make a "best of" list, but when taken together you get one of the finest city plans in the world.

[Vlajos]

The US generally sucks at plazas. Can't think of any worth discussing.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

The US generally sucks at plazas. Can't think of any worth discussing.

Then you should get out more. It doesn’t actually make anyone sound morally or intellectually superior by speaking in absolutes, especially negative absolutes.

There are many I love but since I live in San Francisco, the best of which are posted above, I’ll say my favorites are Yerba Buena Gardens and Union Square.