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  #41  
Old Posted May 9, 2013, 10:05 AM
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Minato Ku Minato Ku is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
"Nos quartiers se rénovent pour :"
...mais la résolution est trop basse pour qu'on puisse lire la suite.

Do you think you could post a higher res image for that one? I'm curious to see that sign. Seems really wishful thinking to me... kinda like the "we're fine" Cuban signs.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8900675...n/photostream/

Nos quartiers se rénovent pour:
  • lutter contre l'habitat indigne
  • diversifier l'offre de logement
  • offrir des espaces et des équipements publics de qualité
  • développer une offre commercial de proximité

Our neighborhoods are being renovated for:
  • fight against substandard housing
  • diversify the supply of housing
  • provide spaces and public facilities of quality
  • develop nearby retails

This sign is not a "we're fine" but a sign about redevelopment of the area.
Don't forget that Le Charbonneur pics show only half of the story. It focus only on run down building, not a better building or new construction.

This thread is interesting and I like it but it may lead some people to think that there are several sq mile area only made decading buildings and falling apart.
Areas in picture are growing and improving, it is not comparable with the bad areas of Detroit or South Bronx in the 1970's.

Sorry, Le Charbonneur but I will post two of my pictures, these pictures are in the same area that Rue du Landy.

In this first picture, we can see the redevelopment progress with older run down buildings and newer behind.

Rue Proudhon, Saint-Denis par Minato ku, sur Flickr
Same area

Rue Jeumont, Saint-Denis par Minato ku, sur Flickr
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  #42  
Old Posted May 9, 2013, 5:57 PM
Le Charbonneur Le Charbonneur is offline
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Last edited by Le Charbonneur; Jul 8, 2018 at 8:48 AM.
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  #43  
Old Posted May 9, 2013, 8:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
In this first picture, we can see the redevelopment progress with older run down buildings and newer behind.

Rue Proudhon, Saint-Denis par Minato ku, sur Flickr
I was thinking these didn't look bad at all. I think that's some of the early 20th century brick we're quite used to and I like it. They're not going to demolish them, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
Areas in picture are growing and improving, it is not comparable with the bad areas of Detroit or South Bronx in the 1970's.
It's usually not the same stage of decay in Paris but still, in the metro area as a whole, there is an impressive lot to demolish or renovate to make something decent of dozens of neighborhoods that look pitiful. Definitely even more than any of us knows, and not only in Seine-Saint-Denis.
I might add that for their sake, Detroit will never have to deal with the countless commieblock neighborhoods that yet remains over here and were developed in an extremely poor way compared to the traditional urban planning. You know, ugly concrete bars lost in the middle of a large and boring parking lot, that's usually the very bad way they've done that. People don't wanna live in that kind of housing anymore. I sometimes hear it's even felt as a humiliation, the symbol of a serious failure in your life, things like that. So today, they want their downtown-style building nicely aligned along the street, which is much more satisfying indeed. Well, it's gonna take some time to replace all those commieblocks. Feeling dizzy when thinking of the amount we still have, even when lots of them are gone already.
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  #44  
Old Posted May 10, 2013, 2:01 AM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8900675...n/photostream/

Nos quartiers se rénovent pour:
  • lutter contre l'habitat indigne
  • diversifier l'offre de logement
  • offrir des espaces et des équipements publics de qualité
  • développer une offre commercial de proximité

Our neighborhoods are being renovated for:
  • fight against substandard housing
  • diversify the supply of housing
  • provide spaces and public facilities of quality
  • develop nearby retails

This sign is not a "we're fine" but a sign about redevelopment of the area.
Don't forget that Le Charbonneur pics show only half of the story. It focus only on run down building, not a better building or new construction.

This thread is interesting and I like it but it may lead some people to think that there are several sq mile area only made decading buildings and falling apart.
Areas in picture are growing and improving, it is not comparable with the bad areas of Detroit or South Bronx in the 1970's.

Sorry, Le Charbonneur but I will post two of my pictures, these pictures are in the same area that Rue du Landy.

Thanks for the info! But I have to say, I'm still skeptical that the dire urban scenes shown in Le Charbonneur's pics can be coexistent with successfully rehabbed areas. That kind of decay usually has deep roots and reversing it is a very hard and long process... so all in all, I wasn't really surprised to hear that your St Denis pics are actually ~0.5 km away and from a different type of sector altogether.
Are there private developers active in rehabbing those areas (rue de Landy between St Ouen/Aubervilliers, I gather...) ? Or is it only government-funded brand new commie blocks, one at a time?
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  #45  
Old Posted May 10, 2013, 9:25 AM
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Minato Ku Minato Ku is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Charbonneur View Post
I am obsessed by urban decay, you are obsessed by redevelopment.......
We'll never be agree lol.....
Sure i focus on decay it's the title of my thread, whatever, i was clear about la Chapelle/Stalingrad, if you read between the pics i said most of the area has been renovated and i've shown before/after examples.....
Your pics of Plaine Saint-Denis are 500M south west of mine and that's a big difference if you really know the neighborhood. Read again my first answer to you about my pics of Landy area....
I had a look at your old thread about Aubervilliers and you made a prowess: I thinked i was in Issy Les Moulineaux (a pretty middle class suburb south of Paris) with just a bit more "brown" people....
I tease you.....
You're still welcome...
I understand the point of this thread and I don't necessary disagree with that.
This is why I helped you to post your pics but in my opinion, it needed a few explanation.
This what I give.

I am not that obseded with urban redevelopment, infact I am not so a fan of many new building built in Plaine Saint Denis area, especially the office buildings.
Not enough retail space in the ground floors, so the area near the the RER D station is quite empty even in the middle of the day despite the number of office workers office.
There is nothing to do.
It seems closer to a dense version of a suburban office park district than a real urban district.

I wait for more pictures of urban decay's in Paris area, there is some good areas for this in Gennevilliers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mousquet View Post
I was thinking these didn't look bad at all. I think that's some of the early 20th century brick we're quite used to and I like it. They're not going to demolish them, right?
In my those big bricks building will stay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Thanks for the info! But I have to say, I'm still skeptical that the dire urban scenes shown in Le Charbonneur's pics can be coexistent with successfully rehabbed areas. That kind of decay usually has deep roots and reversing it is a very hard and long process... so all in all, I wasn't really surprised to hear that your St Denis pics are actually ~0.5 km away and from a different type of sector altogether.
I could find the same things just next to place where Le Charbonneur pics and in my opinion, it is exactly the same area.
I agree that redevelopement take times but it is definitively happening.
Infact many of the shabby buildings are just waiting demolition for a bigger redevelopement of the area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Charbonneur View Post

Rue Du Landy par Le Charbonneur, sur Flickr
This is exactly the same place that the quoted picture from an other angle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Charbonneur View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Are there private developers active in rehabbing those areas (rue de Landy between St Ouen/Aubervilliers, I gather...) ? Or is it only government-funded brand new commie blocks, one at a time?
Both private and public.
Those areas are quite attractive to developpers, cheap lands close to Central Paris and quite well served by public transportation.
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  #46  
Old Posted May 10, 2013, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
Both private and public.
Those areas are quite attractive to developpers, cheap lands close to Central Paris and quite well served by public transportation.
That's it, precisely. And whether private or public, I don't give a crap. The only thing that matters is that some brand new better stuff is coming up.
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  #47  
Old Posted May 10, 2013, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rail Claimore View Post
The pictures you see in most news stories of banlieues don't show stuff like this. I've heard that France is the only country in Europe that has ghettos comparable to what you find in many American cities, with housing projects and the look of abandonment. Not sure if it's the only country, but after seeing your photos, these are definitely comparable.
Well, you should look at some of the Roma ghettos in Eastern Europe, such as this one in Slovakia :
https://maps.google.fr/maps?q=Ko%C5%...3.75,,0,-10.46
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  #48  
Old Posted May 10, 2013, 7:37 PM
Le Charbonneur Le Charbonneur is offline
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Last edited by Le Charbonneur; Jul 8, 2018 at 8:48 AM.
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  #49  
Old Posted May 10, 2013, 7:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Charbonneur View Post
If you know a bit La Banlieue you know that most of the roughests neighborhoods are now in la grande couronne (outer suburbs) or further from Paris city limits in the end of 93 and if they often look not as bad, they are more violent and crime ridden ( ex: grigny, sevran,aulnay and others housing projects in 91,77,78,60 dept......)
That's right. My mum is from les Mureaux (that was just like a peaceful village when she was born over there just before the 60s/70s local developments) and I've been raised in the area as a luckier middle-class kid thanks to mummy who's a caring hard worker. The 18th and 19th arrondissements of Central Paris feel quite safe compared to les Mureaux, even at night and despite the crack and heroin addicts in those 2 arrondissements. I can tell since I've lived in the Riquet/Crimée neighborhood when I was a student.

Z'embrouillez, les enfants. On a tous les 3 raison ici. Chacun enrichissant la vérité sur notre endroit commun.
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  #50  
Old Posted May 10, 2013, 8:52 PM
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Neuf Trois. La Haine. B13.
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  #51  
Old Posted May 10, 2013, 8:58 PM
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amazing pics, keep em coming, and stay safe
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  #52  
Old Posted May 11, 2013, 8:56 PM
Le Charbonneur Le Charbonneur is offline
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Last edited by Le Charbonneur; Jul 8, 2018 at 8:54 AM.
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  #53  
Old Posted May 11, 2013, 9:36 PM
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Minato Ku Minato Ku is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Charbonneur View Post
On s'embrouille pas on discute fallait pas balançer des images piquées sur google street views c'est un sacrilège.......
I understand and I am so sorry for that.
Don't mislead me I have nothing against your thread and I don't say or think that you are trying to mislead readers, I was mostly answering the questions in the comments.
I am not at all afraid to show decay in my threads.

I am waiting for other pictures of urban decay.
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  #54  
Old Posted May 12, 2013, 9:10 PM
Le Charbonneur Le Charbonneur is offline
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Last edited by Le Charbonneur; Jul 8, 2018 at 8:54 AM.
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  #55  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 1:47 AM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
Both private and public.
Those areas are quite attractive to developpers, cheap lands close to Central Paris and quite well served by public transportation.
One thing would really worry me as an investor in that area though: 100.00% of the people on the streets in all the pics you guys have posted are black. (Maybe no one in the thread was supposed to be unpolitically correct enough to point that fact out, but it's nonetheless a fact. Apologies in advance if it bugs anyone that I've noticed it and mentioned it.)

Generally, when a given area becomes so perfectly homogeneous, then it starts to lose a lot of appeal to anyone not belonging to "the" group populating the neighborhood. Sure, it might be cheap, and close enough to the City, but that total and utter lack of ethnic diversity is a factor that would really contribute to making it unattractive to me as a developer (as it suggests relatively low future resale values).
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  #56  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 11:38 AM
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^ Your point is nothing disturbing, feel free to ask your questions. However, seeing black people only in there doesn't seem anything much more than a random accident to me. Or it might show that most unoccupied folks in these neighborhoods are black cause maybe still the most harshly discriminated. But in fact, there is plenty of North African type and Asian people too in these areas, and the whites never totally abandoned them. If they are a ghetto as I call them, it is socially. Only the poor lives there, but a poor is obviously not exclusively black. Ethnically, they might well be of the most diverse of the entire world.
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  #57  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 6:46 PM
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Wow! I never expected Europe to have urban blight on such a North American scale, truly eye opening!
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  #58  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 8:31 PM
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Minato Ku Minato Ku is offline
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...and this is one of the wealthiest city in Europe and in the world.
Paris is a city with huge contrasts, despite the false feeling of homogeneity that the most central area tends to showcase.
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  #59  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 8:45 PM
Le Charbonneur Le Charbonneur is offline
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Last edited by Le Charbonneur; Jul 8, 2018 at 8:55 AM.
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  #60  
Old Posted May 14, 2013, 10:18 PM
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^^ Just take pictures. If a green goblin happens to walk into frame then so be it. I didn't even notice the demographics until someone mentioned it, must be a priority for them...


Quote:
Originally Posted by north 42 View Post
Wow! I never expected Europe to have urban blight on such a North American scale, truly eye opening!
I'm not surprised. Italian cities are covered in graffiti, New York has nothing on Rome in this regard. I've seen some urban blight in northern UK cities which are a considered somewhat like our rustbelt cities. It's all over Europe, it's even worse in Eastern Europe.
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