Is horrible winter weather ironically good for northern cities?

the urban politician · #1 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 1:49 PM**

I live in a suburb of Chicago.

Instead of driving to Chicago, I drive up north to Wisconsin to get to my job.

My job is nowhere near transit, and therefore I must drive. And so I do, and it's a good job, but with every snowstorm I find myself cursing the snow and the danger of driving in snow and blizzards.

I witness everybody driving 30 mph on the interstate, I witness people stranded on the shoulder or in a ditch, and of course we hear about all of the unfortunate collisions and accidents on a daily basis.

The natural assumption is that a lot of people are just fed up and moving to Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc etc to get away from this weather. And the data backs this up, no doubt.

But a part of me wonders if this weather is actually helping along another process we've observed: centralization of jobs and people into downtown cores.

While I curse driving in this weather, I would tolerate it better if I could take a train or a brief walk to my job. It's driving in snow that's particularly painful and hazardous.

Could more of these shitty, snowy winters spur people to live in more densely populated places with more resources within walking distance, with employers following suit?

Centropolis · #2 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 2:15 PM**

driving in general - in chicagoland - is always a horrorshow in my opinion. this alone has to help the loop. my company just opened a loop office because so many people were complaining about driving to a nw suburb - even suburban folks. throw in bad weather - and how the fuck do you get anything done in a day if youre motoring around in a waking nightmare.

isaidso · #3 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 2:31 PM**

Horrible winter weather means different things to different people. If it's too warm and doesn't snow I consider that horrible winter weather as it's not a proper winter. Prolonged cold snaps are also better for the eco-system. It kills off germs and disease.

chrisvfr800i · #4 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 2:35 PM**

I have a similar commute, though not to Wisconsin. Luckily, I start my day early enough that bad weather isn't much of a problem in the morning. The evening drive is another matter to be sure, but I just settle in and take my time. Crawling along in traffic in my comfortable car is still 1000000% better than waiting in a windy bus stop shelter!

the urban politician · #5 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 5:31 PM**

My point is, I think winters can drive centralization in northern cities in a fashion that has no parallel in southern or western "good weather" cities because of the perils of driving in snowy conditions.

10023 · #6 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 5:38 PM**

I think taking public transportation in Chicago's winter weather is just as much of a nightmare, frankly, rivalled only by the NYC subway in the summer.

Ryanrule · #7 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 5:44 PM**

really? nightmare?

10023 · #8 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 5:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryanrule

really? nightmare?

Ever walked half a mile to and from the train when it's 10 degrees below zero?

Xelebes · #9 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 5:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023

Ever walked half a mile to and from the train when it's 10 degrees below zero?

Yeah. *crickets*

Steely Dan · #10 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 6:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023

Ever walked half a mile to and from the train when it's 10 degrees below zero?

yep. when it's 10 below, riding my bike to work is no longer fun, so i take the train. i'm about 3/8 mile from the nearest el station.

i layer up and protect all exposed skin, it's not that big of a deal. sure, it's cold, but not really a nightmare.

i just pretend i'm a character in a sci-fi movie living on some desolate ice world on the edge of the solar system.

life is more fun when you engage your imagination.

10023 · #11 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 6:49 PM**

Guys, I've done it to. I did grow up in Chicago and went to college in Madison.

My point is that commuting by public transit, which usually entails a fair amount of walking, isn't any less adversely affected by inclement weather than TUP's commute by driving. "Nightmare" is obvious hyperbole.

brickell · #12 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 7:02 PM**

Northern Cities
- Winter
-- Northernerss give up, move to Florida or Arizona.
- Less Traffic
Win

rousseau · #13 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 7:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

yep. when it's 10 below, riding my bike to work is no longer fun, so i take the train. i'm about 3/8 mile from the nearest el station.

Really? Ten below is no picnic, but it isn't so bad for riding if you wear the right clothes.

Just checked Wikipedia: Chicago has average lows of -5.2, -7.7 and -5.7 for December-February at one of the airports (it's even colder at the other one). Assuming that you're heading out in the early morning when you're closest to the lows, does this mean you don't ride quite as much in winter, given that undoubtedly there are some days where it does indeed get down to -10?

The only reason I felt moved to respond to this is because I got a mountain bike in February to deal with the record cold we've been having this year, and it has been a revelation. I'm actually finding that I don't hate the winter so much, and have even ridden on days where it has plunged as low as -15 (normally rare here, but again, this winter...).

Mikemike · #14 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 7:37 PM**

I had to check, but -10F is only -23C. That's actually nice weather - I don't typically hit my maximum layers until close to -30, and with good layers, decent boots and goggles cycling down to -35 has been a pleasure.

Centropolis · #15 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 7:44 PM**

here come the canadians to set it straight.

it's all about what you are used to, and prepared for. chicago makes my bones ache in the winter and has no "breaks" like im used to. my gfs sister who just moved to stl from nashville is constantly uncomfortable with the winter weather there.

brickell · #16 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 7:44 PM**

Canadians eh.

Steely Dan · #17 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 7:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rousseau

Really? Ten below is no picnic, but it isn't so bad for riding if you wear the right clothes.

i'm talking about 10 below on the fahrenheit scale, not that wacky celsius shit you silly canadaians use.

it is RARELY ever that cold in chicago, like maybe a handful of mornings during a bad winter, and many winters it never gets that cold at all.

i would agree that -10 C (+14 on the correct american scale) isn't that brutal in the grand scheme of things.

Crawford · #18 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 8:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikemike

I had to check, but -10F is only -23C. That's actually nice weather - I don't typically hit my maximum layers until close to -30, and with good layers, decent boots and goggles cycling down to -35 has been a pleasure.

Wow. "A pleasure"? Really?

Anything below 0 C is horrible, and something to be endured, IMO. And I have lived in cold weather climes most of my life. It's a huge PITA to be wearing all that crap.

pdxtex · #19 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 8:20 PM**

i dont think bad weather did anything to stem suburban sprawl, corporate centralization and inner city population gains probably would have happened anyway. its certainly kept real estate prices in check however. thats probably the biggest advantage to living in a midwest city.

mhays · #20 Posted **Mar 3, 2015, 8:30 PM**

Advantage and disadvantage. Buying in an expensive city can mean a six-figure profit if you're lucky with timing, or just hold on through a full cycle.

I've never understood why bad-weather cities don't build more densely. I mean frigid Alaskan cities and saunas in the South. On the basic thread topic, I don't see an obvious pattern though.