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  #121  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2015, 5:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
meh, a normal chicago winter is really only tough for maybe the handful of days when a polar vortex swings on through (we used to just call 'em "cold snaps", but i guess the TV weather people decided that term wasn't dramatic enough). as a daily bike commuter, i love the adventure and variety of riding through 4 real actual seasons WHEN THOSE SEASONS ARE CLOSE TO HISTORICAL AVERAGES.

however, these past 2 winters of nearly non-stop well below average temps for weeks/months on end without any warm-up breaks in between have indeed been tough, i've pussed-out and done the walk of shame over to the train station more times in each of the past 2 winters than during the previous 6 winters COMBINED! in a normal winter we might only have 1 or 2 days total when the morning temp is below zero (F), in fact in many of the winters that i've been a daily rider, we didn't even have a single morning in the below zero realm, but these past two winters, the bitter cold has just been unrelenting.

for the love of christ, mother nature, can we please, PLEASE, PLEASE just have a normal fucking winter next year? i freaking love winter (when it's not 8 fucking degrees below zero (F))!
When I lived in Southern Ontario, winter was tolerable, but still unpleasant.

The crazy winters of the past two years down in the Great Lakes are close to a normal winter up here in Ottawa. I don't plan to stay in Ottawa much longer. Most years there is complete snow cover from early December until mid to late April. Temps are frequently below zero (in Fahrenheit, and not including the windchill) and often don't rise above freezing for many weeks at a time. It's not as cold as Winnipeg, but lasts just as long.
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  #122  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2015, 6:03 PM
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When I lived in Southern Ontario, winter was tolerable, but still unpleasant.
it's all relative. one man's pleasant is another man's intolerable.

i don't find a NORMAL chicago winter to be unpleasant save for maybe a handful of days during a cold snap or two. however, someone from miami would likely find chicago's weather to be intolerable from october through may.
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  #123  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2015, 6:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
i don't find a NORMAL chicago winter to be unpleasant save for maybe a handful of days during a cold snap or two. however, someone from miami would likely find chicago's weather to be intolerable from october through may.
And August.
Miami doesn't even get that hot.
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  #124  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2015, 7:05 PM
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And August.
Miami doesn't even get that hot.
huh?

miami, like just about anywhere in the southeast, is hotter and more humid than chicago in the summer.


June average high/low - humidity:
miami: 89.5/76.0 - 76.2%
chicago: 79.9/62.1 - 65.6%


July average high/low - humidity:
miami: 90.9/77.3 - 74.8%
chicago: 84.2/67.5 - 68.5%


August average high/low - humidity:
miami: 91.0/77.4 - 76.2%
chicago: 82.1/66.2 - 70.7%


September average high/low - humidity:
miami: 89.3/76.5 - 77.8%
chicago: - 75.3/57.5 - 71.1%
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Mar 10, 2015 at 8:31 PM.
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  #125  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2015, 8:47 PM
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Obviously. I didn't meant it so literally.
But Miami doesn't get heat waves like you do. I was there in August smack dab in the middle of one. The only time I've been as miserable heat and humidity wise was in a Belizean jungle.

But back to the cold.
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  #126  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2015, 9:02 PM
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But Miami doesn't get heat waves like you do. I was there in August smack dab in the middle of one. The only time I've been as miserable heat and humidity wise was in a Belizean jungle.
and 15 years ago i visited NYC smack dab in the middle of a bad heat wave in May, temps in the 90s 4 days in a row. it was not fun. that said, overall May is much nicer in NYC than it is miami.

chicago can get bad heat waves too. we had a really bad one 20 years ago that killed hundreds. however, based on average temps and humidities, chicago sounds like a FAR more pleasant place than miami in the summertime. i am no lover of heat, anything above 80 bothers me, and above 90 thoughts of suicide start creeping in.

for whatever reason, i can tolerate cold much more easily than i can heat.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Mar 10, 2015 at 9:22 PM.
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  #127  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2015, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
It's not accurate, though, at least not in terms of temps.

NYC has humid summers, but not particularly hot summers. It doesn't have the mid-continent type high-90's you see in Kansas City and the like. NYC will average 10-15 days above 90, while cities in the interior will average 60-70 days above 90.
Referencing silly U2 lyrics as support would indicate that I wasn't looking for serious numbers... or being too serious at all.

Though Manhattan on a very hot July day gives new meaning to the term "urban heat island". I particularly love when you are dripping sweat and you're surrounded by tons of people and burning hot concrete and a bus blows by spewing hot poison exhaust in your face... I NY


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im a field scientist, and have watched people vomit walking through the bayous of southern arkansas. i've never seen anyone become physically ill from cold. then again, im usually working alone when im working around chicago (like right now) and i know how to dress for the cold so ive never seen a hypothermic situation (other than camping alone in the mountains ill prepared in the summer).


theres people who cant handle or dont prepare for either extreme. if you arent prepared for cold, you are fucked, but you cant prepare for heat - other than getting lean.

however - in small doses i think cold is worse, dressed in office clothes. then again, office clothes get gross in 99 F and humid and you need a shower at the office. the other problem is that its depressing to feel stuck inside during the summer because its
too hot to be active outside.

obviously the solution is to build a climate-perfect techno-dystopia over the los angeles basin and cram over 300 million people in there. i'll remain in the hinterlands as a benevolent-but-imposing-overlord in a tower panopticon.
I've definitely seem some heat/exertion-induced vomiting as well... outdoor work on gulf coast Texas bayous and plenty during football 2-a-days. I've also had the awful displeasure of seeing two dead people frozen to death in the snow. One was a guy who got drunk, left a bar, and passed out on the ground and froze in a parking lot... and the other was a college kid in a wheelchair who's chair got stuck in snow off the sidewalk while he was heading home from a local bar on a Saturday night and decided to cut through campus alone -- froze the fuck to death overnight. Awful.

I also just read about about a college girl who was missing... she left a party drunk... they found her much later the next day frozen to death under 6 inches of fresh snow in the alley next to the building where the party was.

Be careful in the cold winter if you're out drinking a lot SSPers. Very sad and scary... hypothermia can set in much more quickly when alcohol is consumed and you won't even know it... once that happens, if you're still outside in the cold and you're too disoriented to be aware, you are literally freezing to death.
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  #128  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 1:30 AM
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Winter is good for indoor drinking and snowball fights
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  #129  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 2:36 AM
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Originally Posted by flar View Post
When I lived in Southern Ontario, winter was tolerable, but still unpleasant.

The crazy winters of the past two years down in the Great Lakes are close to a normal winter up here in Ottawa. I don't plan to stay in Ottawa much longer. Most years there is complete snow cover from early December until mid to late April. Temps are frequently below zero (in Fahrenheit, and not including the windchill) and often don't rise above freezing for many weeks at a time. It's not as cold as Winnipeg, but lasts just as long.
Mid to late April for snow cover in Ottawa? Not really...

It's actually pretty exceptional for any residual snow to last into April in Ottawa. Though it does happen every once in a while.
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  #130  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 3:12 AM
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When I lived in Southern Ontario, winter was tolerable, but still unpleasant.

The crazy winters of the past two years down in the Great Lakes are close to a normal winter up here in Ottawa...
I find this hard to believe... at least not in terms of snowfall.

Cities like Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Erie, and maybe Cleveland all must receive more snow than Ottawa.
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  #131  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 3:46 AM
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I find this hard to believe... at least not in terms of snowfall.

Cities like Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Erie, and maybe Cleveland all must receive more snow than Ottawa.
The snow melts in those places. The amount of snow Ottawa gets can vary quite a bit from year to year, but the difference is that it stays all winter because it's a lot colder. It's hardly snowed at all this year, but there's two feet in my yard right now, and it's been there since January.
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  #132  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 3:48 AM
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Mid to late April for snow cover in Ottawa? Not really...

It's actually pretty exceptional for any residual snow to last into April in Ottawa. Though it does happen every once in a while.
Ridiculous. I check the date of the last snow melt in my yard every year. Last year was April 18th and the year before was about the same. Check the weather thread, I bet my posts are still there. Snow piles and forested areas can have snow into May.
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  #133  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 5:02 AM
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It's easy to check these things on Wikipedia. Ottawa has an average January high of -6 C. It gets 224 cm of snow per year including 11 cm in an average April. Rochester gets more snow at 253 cm/year. Average high in January is -0.2 C.

This past February Toronto averaged -12.6C overall, the coldest month ever recorded. That's on par with Whitehorse and colder than what Ottawa, Quebec City, and Edmonton typically get. Still not as cold as Winnipeg though. Sorry Winnipeg.
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  #134  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 5:32 AM
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for whatever reason, i can tolerate cold much more easily than i can heat.
QFT
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  #135  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 8:20 AM
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The snow melts in those places. The amount of snow Ottawa gets can vary quite a bit from year to year, but the difference is that it stays all winter because it's a lot colder. It's hardly snowed at all this year, but there's two feet in my yard right now, and it's been there since January.
I'm unsure how many years you've been in Ottawa, but you need to take into account the most recent two winters (this year and the last season from 2013-2014) have been exceptionally cool winters for most of North America overall. However, the previous two winters in 2012-13 and 2011-2012 were fairly warm. In fact, 2012 was the year with the exceptional heat wave after a very warm start to the year (much of the mid-US was stuck in 110+ temperatures in late June and July). If you have only witnessed two Ottawa winters, it may be that you've seen the worst of the worst these past two years.

In regards to how weather affects urban development and transit usage patterns, I don't think the weather affects it so much as cultural and other issues. Within US boundaries, I largely see an east-west density divide. For example, suburban Philadelphia is every bit as bucolic and low density as Atlanta for the most part; however, Philadelphia is such an old city that was significantly large much earlier in history that its got a massive regional rail network that connects that old city to these old bucolic suburbs where lot sizes can be huge and density is very low. Same with Boston, an urban old core, but its suburbs are so low density it doesn't even match density levels in suburbs surrounding places like Dallas or Memphis.

The story is mirrored in the south. The 'new growth' cities of Raleigh, Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville are all four cities with quite bucolic, ultra low density housing for the most part, with significantly smaller urban cores than their northeastern counterparts due to the difference in the age that they grew up in. Yet even in the south, you see vastly more dense metropolitan areas (even if still single family home/auto oriented) the more westward you go. Florida is a bit different, but that's geographical. When you have marshland and water surrounding every corner, its hard to develop the bucolic Atlanta or Philly sprawl.

New Orleans is geographically locked as well, plus it was the most urban city in the southeast for over half of the country's entire history. Its old urban core is much like Philly in this regard: it makes it a more urban city.

In the north, suburbs in and around Minneapolis and Detroit have smaller lot sizes and more density than Philadelphia or Baltimore (speaking extremely suburban here, not comparing central cores at all).

Cities like Dallas and Memphis have suburbs that look more like Los Angeles or Denver than the large lot sizes of the suburban northeast. Yes, Philly is a larger more dense core than Memphis by far, but the suburbs in Memphis are more dense (suburban dense that is) than most Philly lot sizes for single family homes and they're usually more tightly packed together.

This east-west difference doesn't account for weather differences. Memphis and Dallas are certainly much warmer then Philly or Boston. In the actual west you have relatively small lot sizes from Portland to San Diego or Salt Lake to Phoenix. Its suburban, but a higher density form of suburbia like Memphis is in the southeast. Go figure. This topic could be discussed at length for weeks and there'd still be more questions than answers.
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  #136  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 10:12 AM
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Ridiculous. I check the date of the last snow melt in my yard every year. Last year was April 18th and the year before was about the same. Check the weather thread, I bet my posts are still there. Snow piles and forested areas can have snow into May.
Dr Nevergold is right. The last two winters have been exceptionally cold and have had snow last into April. There was maybe one year like that in the previous decade as well but generally speaking that's not the norm.

I've lived in Eastern Ontario and Western Quebec for 25-30 years and generally the snow is gone by mid-March or at least the official start of spring around March 21.

Some exceptional years most of it can be gone in the very last days of February even.

All of this is still a fairly long snow season, but let's not exaggerate.

I've had an in-ground pool for about 10 years and every year I get the equipment running the weekend of April 20. Last year was the only year where I couldn't get it done then and had wait an extra week.

I clean my yard and get everything ready for summer around the pool, deck, etc. in April. That wouldn't be my regular schedule if my backyard was snowbound for that month every year.
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  #137  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 12:43 PM
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This argument is pretty silly, one more shot.

What I said: the last two winters in the lower great lakes were like a normal winter in Ottawa. I'm not sure how that can be disputed? Winter is clearly longer and colder in Ottawa, and it's quite noticeable if you move here.

When I moved to Ottawa in March of 2009, the snow was melting, and it was considered to be a good year. I moved into my current home in April of that year, and there was still ice on the lawn that wouldn't melt. Every year it's been like that. The cold has been more sustained than usual in Ottawa the past two winters, but it hasn't gotten colder than other winters. There are many days where it is below -20 C every year in Ottawa, without fail.

I don't think any records have been broken in Ottawa the last two years.

My brother has been in the landscaping and snow removal business for many years in Ottawa, and he says there's been less snow in the past few years. Some years there is so much snow they can't find anywhere to put it, but not since I've lived here.

I used to live in London, ON, which probably gets more snow than Ottawa, but Ottawa is the first place I've lived where there is a winter-long snow pack on the ground for months.

That is all.
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  #138  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 12:44 PM
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and 15 years ago i visited NYC smack dab in the middle of a bad heat wave in May, temps in the 90s 4 days in a row. it was not fun.
we had 8 days + over 100 F (37.7 C) a couple of years ago, and that was measured out at the airport. at night you could feel the heat radiating off the brick houses, and it never cooled off at night. my ac unit (central air) caught on fire! i think officially we topped off at 108 before it cooled off into the high 90s like normal. during heat waves we usually are hotter than memphis. heat waves in the south central and west central interior are a different ballgame. kansas can be pretty terrible - theres just enough humidity in the air to keep you from being able to breath - plus the great plains blast furnace effect.
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Last edited by Centropolis; Mar 11, 2015 at 1:00 PM.
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  #139  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 1:25 PM
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This argument is pretty silly, one more shot.

What I said: the last two winters in the lower great lakes were like a normal winter in Ottawa. I'm not sure how that can be disputed? Winter is clearly longer and colder in Ottawa, and it's quite noticeable if you move here.

When I moved to Ottawa in March of 2009, the snow was melting, and it was considered to be a good year. I moved into my current home in April of that year, and there was still ice on the lawn that wouldn't melt. Every year it's been like that. The cold has been more sustained than usual in Ottawa the past two winters, but it hasn't gotten colder than other winters. There are many days where it is below -20 C every year in Ottawa, without fail.

I don't think any records have been broken in Ottawa the last two years.

My brother has been in the landscaping and snow removal business for many years in Ottawa, and he says there's been less snow in the past few years. Some years there is so much snow they can't find anywhere to put it, but not since I've lived here.

I used to live in London, ON, which probably gets more snow than Ottawa, but Ottawa is the first place I've lived where there is a winter-long snow pack on the ground for months.

That is all.
I don't think anyone would dispute that winters in Ottawa are colder and snowier than southern Ontario, but snowpack typically lasting into late April is not really true.
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  #140  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 1:50 PM
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^The exception would be in forests where not a lot of sunlight hits the ground. The snow can stay on the ground a lot longer there than you'd think.

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Originally Posted by flar View Post
This argument is pretty silly, one more shot.

What I said: the last two winters in the lower great lakes were like a normal winter in Ottawa. I'm not sure how that can be disputed?
I'll give it a shot

Average overall temperature for Toronto this past February: -12.6C (9F). -2.6 (27F) is normal.
Same stat for Cleveland: -16C
And for Ottawa: -16.2C (-8.1 is normal)

Not that it really matters, but the lower Great Lakes have been getting significantly colder weather than a normal Ottawa winter. It's been record breaking.
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