The Canadian Climate / Ecological Thread

[DrJoe]

You should check more recent years. They basically don't exist in Ontario anymore do to the coal power plants being taken off line and cleaner vehicles. That's a huge number you posted for Montreal but I'd imagine it's been better recently.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

You may be right - in other words, there would be no need for a frost "advisory" at this time of the year in the southwestern Prairies, since everyone over there knows to actually expect frost.

Yes although it is not speculation on my part. Environment Canada has official criteria: http://www.ec.gc.ca/meteo-weather/de...n&n=d9553ab5-1

(Southern portions of Canada except British Columbia) Issued during the growing season when widespread frost formation is expected over an extensive area. Surface temperatures are expected to fall near freezing in the overnight period.

The growing season is based on a degree day cutoff. The exact definition is probably somewhere on the EC website.

In a lot of cases they also have different criteria for different regions.

One example: a fog warning is issued if 6 hours of low visibility is expected in most of Canada, but in Atlantic Canada it has to be 18 hours.

So alerts like that are not generally a useful way to compare different parts of the country.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by DrJoe

You should check more recent years. They basically don't exist in Ontario anymore do to the coal power plants being taken off line and cleaner vehicles. That's a huge number you posted for Montreal but I'd imagine it's been better recently.

Smog on the decline: Montreal's air quality best since 2002
Shuttering of Ontario's coal-fire power generation plants lead to decline in city's air pollution
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...2016-1.3919050

[SaskScraper]

Originally Posted by lio45

I believe for the southwestern Prairies it's more like one (July?).

Unfortunately believing (guessing) something doesn't make it true

Originally posted by GreaterMontréal

winter 2008-2009, 47 days of smog warnings, a record

It doesn't really surprise me, I've been to Toronto several times in the Summer and more often than not you can see a thick soupy smog, advisory or no advisory. The only other place I've experienced a smog thicker than Toronto's was in Hong Kong and I travel to LA, Phx & NYC and other cities regularly.

On good note, If you want your breath taken away, La Ronde is one of the best amusement parks & best settings for park (equal to Cedar Pt) that I've ever been to in the Summer.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

There's probably 4 months (June, July, August, September) where snow has never been recorded in the warmest parts of southern Quebec. I believe for the southwestern Prairies it's more like one (July?). Not sure, though. Anyone with data, feel free to bring it up...



No, that's really strictly because Quebec likes to make things mandatory by law. You obviously need winter tires a lot more over the border in the hills and mountains of Northern New England than you do need them on the flat streets of Montreal... yet that's not how the laws have it. BTW, winter tires weren't mandatory until relatively recently - should I infer from that that you genuinely believe Quebec's winters were warmer before 2007?



I don't think he needs my help. Also, I don't mind brutal winters. As I've pointed out already on this forum, for the past two years I've been "snowbirding the wrong way" (spending my winters working outside in Quebec by the river, where you get the worst windchills) and it was fine. Weather doesn't really affect me too much... it only annoys me when it prevents me from doing what I want to do (rain and/or snow and/or subzero temps will occasionally do just that. On that aspect, I have to say I've been totally spoiled for the past couple months.)

We got a few very light snow flurries here on Monday as well. It's the latest I've ever seen snow in my entire life.

The only other time I've seen snow (very light flurries again) in May was on May 1 I think and that was in Toronto believe it or not.

[urbanroo]

[QUOTE=lio45;7800246]There's probably 4 months (June, July, August, September) where snow has never been recorded in the warmest parts of southern Quebec. I believe for the southwestern Prairies it's more like one (July?). Not sure, though. Anyone with data, feel free to bring it up...

I don't have data, but from 25 years of living in Edmonton, I can't remember there ever being snow in June or July. There was once (back in the early 1990s, I think) a very light dusting of snow at the end of August in a few outlying regions to the west of the city, but not in the city itself. There has been snow once or maybe twice in September, but it's a very rare event. Snow in October, however, is pretty common. My birthday on October 6th often coincided with the first snow day of the year. Snow in May is also not unheard of. The latest I can remember was in 1987 when it snowed on the Victoria Day long weekend. The lilac trees were destroyed as a result.

[Acajack]

I've seen very light snow flurries on the last or second-last day in September. This was in Ottawa.

I've never seen snow in June-July-August anywhere I've been living in or even visiting.

[rousseau]

You never fail to disappoint.

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

Montréal often has smog advisories-warnings during winter.

winter 2008-2009, 47 days of smog warnings, a record

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

It doesn't really surprise me, I've been to Toronto several times in the Summer and more often than not you can see a thick soupy smog, advisory or no advisory.

Montreal, Toronto, winter, summer, it's all the same!

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

The only other place I've experienced a smog thicker than Toronto's was in Hong Kong and I travel to LA, Phx & NYC and other cities regularly.

I think declaring that the smog in Toronto is so singularly terrible on (presumably) a global scale, that it's worse than so many "other cities" including Los Angeles and New York, makes it seem more likely than not that you're actually a farmer who's never travelled farther than Moose Jaw.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

When Rousseau has spent time actually living year-round in both climates I'll perhaps be more forgiving of his hyperbole.

The week of rain we recently endured pushed me to the edge. Sure, I'm aware this is all subjective, and I'm more hypersensitive to this stuff than most. I got a keyboard and an internet connection, and so away I go.

Because there was nothing else to do, because it was freakin' raining.

There really is something approaching a consensus on the lack of desirability of cold rain lasting for days on end. You don't find a lot of people professing that they enjoy it. Save for maybe Morrissey.

I have not lived in Vancouver, just visited and heard comments from relatives who live there. But rain as an experience isn't all that variable. Sometimes it's heavy, sometimes it's light drizzle, sometimes it's warm, sometimes it's cold, sometimes it lasts a few hours, sometimes it lasts for days on end. It's a lot less variable than the experience of snow, either falling or already on the ground.

We just had days on end of cold, constant rain. In May, no less. It was probably heavier than what Vancouver gets in winter. But it would have been equally as shitty if it had been light drizzle instead.

It's not a great leap to extrapolate that people who found this past week of cold rain unbearable are not going to enjoy winter in Vancouver. But what gets my distemper all aflutter is the insulting bill of goods that people are selling when they suggest that winter in Vancouver is somehow an appealing prospect. "Gawd, I could never live in Toronto, it's so cold in the winter!"

Are you seriously kidding me? We just had a week of cold rain, and people here were on suicide watch. And you're trying to convince me that six months of that is somehow preferable?

That's totally bonkers.

[urbanroo]

^Agreed that a week of cold rain is not a fun experience. Having lived in both Vancouver and southern Ontario, however, the Vancouver climate (for me) wins hands down. When I first moved to Vancouver I expected it would rain every day for 6 months. That's not the case at all. The rain comes and goes, and the payoff is lovely sunny winter days with green grass, flowers, and palm trees. That still doesn't mean it's entirely desirable. I've also lived in California, and that's in a whole different league.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by rousseau

The week of rain we recently endured pushed me to the edge. Sure, I'm aware this is all subjective, and I'm more hypersensitive to this stuff than most. I got a keyboard and an internet connection, and so away I go.

Because there was nothing else to do, because it was freakin' raining.

There really is something approaching a consensus on the lack of desirability of cold rain lasting for days on end. You don't find a lot of people professing that they enjoy it. Save for maybe Morrissey.

I have not lived in Vancouver, just visited and heard comments from relatives who live there. But rain as an experience isn't all that variable. Sometimes it's heavy, sometimes it's light drizzle, sometimes it's warm, sometimes it's cold, sometimes it lasts a few hours, sometimes it lasts for days on end. It's a lot less variable than the experience of snow, either falling or already on the ground.

We just had days on end of cold, constant rain. In May, no less. It was probably heavier than what Vancouver gets in winter. But it would have been equally as shitty if it had been light drizzle instead.

It's not a great leap to extrapolate that people who found this past week of cold rain unbearable are not going to enjoy winter in Vancouver. But what gets my distemper all aflutter is the insulting bill of goods that people are selling when they suggest that winter in Vancouver is somehow an appealing prospect. "Gawd, I could never live in Toronto, it's so cold in the winter!"

Are you seriously kidding me? We just had a week of cold rain, and people here were on suicide watch. And you're trying to convince me that six months of that is somehow preferable?

That's totally bonkers.

People have exaggerated notions of how much and how often it rains here. During the worst winter months, it rains on average half of all days. Is that 6 months of rain? Nope. Half of the days it's not raining. During the days it does rain it may only rain for a short period of time. It varies.

Is Toronto unbearably cold to me? No. Is it colder than Van during the winter? Generally, yes. Many people here freak out if it goes below zero at all. If you prefer a milder winter, then it's not bonkers to prefer living here. Plenty of former Ontarians do.

https://www.theweathernetwork.com/fo...08446/cabc0308

[urbanroo]

Another issue with Vancouverites not being able to imagine living anywhere where it snows regularly: when it does snow in Vancouver, it's a total mess. The snow is usually extremely wet and slushy, and it doesn't get cleared away. Everything gets shut down, there's accidents everywhere, schools and businesses are cancelled. So that's the experience with snow many in Vancouver have. Of course, when it snows elsewhere in Canada, it's dealt with, cleared away, and it's not so wet and slushy to begin with: in fact, a nice, dry blanket of snow crunching under the feet can be rather nice (but I'd still prefer a wet season to full-out winter).

[urbanroo]

And by the way, in January, Vancouver registers precipitation on 19.5 out of 31 days. That's a lot, but compare that to 15.4/31 for Toronto and it's not a HUGE difference. (Victoria gets 17, Edmonton 11, Calgary 9.4, Halifax 13.8, Montreal 15.8). Over the course of a year, Vancouver gets 169 precipitation days and Toronto gets 145. Montreal gets 164 and Calgary 111.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by urbanroo

And by the way, in January, Vancouver registers precipitation on 19.5 out of 31 days. That's a lot, but compare that to 15.4/31 for Toronto and it's not a HUGE difference. (Victoria gets 17, Edmonton 11, Calgary 9.4, Halifax 13.8, Montreal 15.8). Over the course of a year, Vancouver gets 169 precipitation days and Toronto gets 145. Montreal gets 164 and Calgary 111.

The Weather Network link I provided showed an average of 15 days of rainfall in January, plus 3 days of snow in Vancouver.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by urbanroo

And by the way, in January, Vancouver registers precipitation on 19.5 out of 31 days.

That's rain. Cold rain. 158 mm of cold rain.

Originally Posted by urbanroo

That's a lot, but compare that to 15.4/31 for Toronto and it's not a HUGE difference.

That's mostly snow. Only 29 mm of rain. Totally different scenario.

20 days a month of cold rain in 5-degree weather? Sorry, but you've got to be kidding me.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

The Weather Network link I provided showed an average of 15 days of rainfall in January, plus 3 days of snow in Vancouver.

19 days of cold rain, 3 days of snow. Christ!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver#Climate

Hey, you don't mind it, and that's great. But we can please give this ridiculous, idiotic idea that winter in Vancouver is somehow so wonderfully appealing a rest, please? It's insulting.

[DrJoe]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

Unfortunately believing (guessing) something doesn't make it true

It doesn't really surprise me, I've been to Toronto several times in the Summer and more often than not you can see a thick soupy smog, advisory or no advisory. The only other place I've experienced a smog thicker than Toronto's was in Hong Kong and I travel to LA, Phx & NYC and other cities regularly.

On good note, If you want your breath taken away, La Ronde is one of the best amusement parks & best settings for park (equal to Cedar Pt) that I've ever been to in the Summer.

Your anecdotal evidence is obviously from a decade ago or you're just fabricating things. As I just said Toronto has averaged less than one smog advisory a year the past few years since the coal power plants were shut down. Thick soupy smog that's bad on a global scale and yet no advisories? OK....

[Acajack]

This is not to slag on Vancouver but it did rain almost every day for two months straight last fall. It wasn't as cool as 5 degrees C on most of those days but generally well below the 20C threshold that makes rainfall more bearable to most people.

I agree it's usually a good Canadian climate for people who absolutely can't stand snow and subzero temperatures and will sacrifice other things to avoid that...

[north 42]

Originally Posted by DrJoe

Your anecdotal evidence is obviously from a decade ago or you're just fabricating things. As I just said Toronto has averaged less than one smog advisory a year the past few years since the coal power plants were shut down. Thick soupy smog that's bad on a global scale and yet no advisories? OK....

He can't help it, desperate times call for desperate measures by desperate trolls!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by urbanroo

Another issue with Vancouverites not being able to imagine living anywhere where it snows regularly: when it does snow in Vancouver, it's a total mess. The snow is usually extremely wet and slushy, and it doesn't get cleared away. Everything gets shut down, there's accidents everywhere, schools and businesses are cancelled. So that's the experience with snow many in Vancouver have. Of course, when it snows elsewhere in Canada, it's dealt with, cleared away, and it's not so wet and slushy to begin with).

An excellent point.

I don't like snow, but Moncton is very efficient with dealing with our regular dumpings, and private contractors usually coordinate their activities with municipal plows. For example, the city plow usually does my cul-de-sac about 1 AM following a snowfall, and 5-10 minutes later the private operators who clear the driveways come by with their tractor mounted snowblowers. It's all over and done with in about 15 minutes - easy peasy.

I spent the winter once in Washington DC however, and they get snow only infrequently. Even a couple of inches causes complete chaos. This amount of snow is usually enough for the federal government to close all their offices. When I lived their, I heard a rumour that the district only had two actual snowplows (I guess trucks with blades mounted on the front don't count).