Rideau Centre Expansion | Completed

[J.OT13]

I’m surprised no one started a thread for this yet, but here we are. Since we have been talking about this on random threads, I thought this certainly deserves its own space.

I’ll start by saying that I don’t have any news on this project, so don’t get your hopes up just yet. For now, this tread will be purely speculative until, hopefully, new revelations will come in on this important downtown landmark somewhere around either September when the OLRT bids come in, October when Sears gets the boot or/and December when a winner is selected to build the rail line. This train will likely be a big deal for the Centre.

Here are a few topics we can start with;

a. Sears. As we heard before, Nordstrom will likely take up the space. So, will they take up the whole space? Will they leave room for a food court/restaurants or other retail on the Mackenzie King Bridge? Will they reface the whole building or cheap out because we’re Ottawa and therefore not Toronto or Vancouver?

b. New hotel of 500 to 600 rooms. Where will it be built? Likely on top of the old registry’s office. Will they move the registry’s office or integrate it with the hotel? Would it have a direct underground pedestrian link, bypassing the mall, to the Convention Centre? Could we connect it and the Rideau Centre itself to Arts Court via a pedestrian tunnel?

c. Rideau Centre expansion. We know it will be north of Besserer (above grade parking garage to stay for a while since it’s new), but how much of the old Ogilvy’s will end up being saved? Although the 2006 plans called for complete demolition and then rebuild the 1908 façade, I would think that the buildings steel construction would still be structurally sound.

d. Connections to the subway. What more can I say

e. How much of these projects can get built at the same time as the tunnel? If you recall a few years back, the centres management said they couldn’t expand at the same time as the Convention centre; can’t be building at both ends at once. Seems hard to expand when the road in front of you is a trench. But then this all depends on when they plan to build Rideau station and how long it will take. Cut and cover (likely) or bored, but this opens up a whole new can of worms that might provide us answers in September (or at least December).

f. Will Cadillac Fairview want to expand their land holdings near the Rideau Centre for future expansions in 20+ years?

To give you all an idea of the Rideau Centre’s position in 2008, here is an article about its past, present (as of 2008), and future;

http://www.canada.com/story_print.ht...d9b51&sponsor=

and a City of Ottawa report on the preservation of the old Ogilvy's Departement Store;

http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...M-APR-0079.htm

Ladies and Gentlemen, the floor is yours.

[eternallyme]

Here is my thought:

1) The Ogilvy building should become an integral part of an expanded Rideau Centre. It could either be a department store (not sure who could fill that space though) or a part of the mall itself (that would be much more awkward).

2) The surface parking lot should be removed and redeveloped. That expansion could be either 2 or 3 storeys, with a number of stores facing Rideau Street (access to the mall itself would have to be through those stores).

3) The food court should be moved to Mackenzie King Bridge, using a portion of the existing Sears portion at the southwest entrance (let Nordstrom have the rest, including aerial rights to a potential 5th floor).

4) The existing food court should be converted into street-level retail. It would likely displace a few stores on the 2nd floor above the food court, which could easily relocate if a spot is open in the mall, or into the expansion.

5) As a heritage building, the City Registry Office should remain in its current location and setting. No other changes should be made to the southeast corner.

6) Once the DND moves, the building should be redesigned into a large hotel.

7) The connections to the LRT should be in the northeast corner of the Rideau Centre, with an additional connection at Dalhousie and at street level at William, unless the alignment is changed to Mackenzie King Bridge (above ground, after short tunnels of Albert and/or Slater and an elevated guideway over Laurier, which was my preference all along).

8) Finally, the Ottawa Convention Centre should have aerial rights to upper levels above the Rideau Centre (i.e. 4th to 6th floors or higher - 4th in the southwest part and 6th in the southeast part) if they want to expand, although the rooftop terrace needs to remain, even if on a higher level.

It should all be done concurrently IMO, so that by 2020, Rideau area would look like a true hub of Ottawa. An alternate possibility is to expand on the north side of Rideau Street, but it would displace The Bay and several other retailers.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Here is my thought:

1) The Ogilvy building should become an integral part of an expanded Rideau Centre. It could either be a department store (not sure who could fill that space though) or a part of the mall itself (that would be much more awkward).

2) The surface parking lot should be removed and redeveloped. That expansion could be either 2 or 3 storeys, with a number of stores facing Rideau Street (access to the mall itself would have to be through those stores).

3) The food court should be moved to Mackenzie King Bridge, using a portion of the existing Sears portion at the southwest entrance (let Nordstrom have the rest, including aerial rights to a potential 5th floor).

4) The existing food court should be converted into street-level retail. It would likely displace a few stores on the 2nd floor above the food court, which could easily relocate if a spot is open in the mall, or into the expansion.

5) As a heritage building, the City Registry Office should remain in its current location and setting. No other changes should be made to the southeast corner.

6) Once the DND moves, the building should be redesigned into a large hotel.

7) The connections to the LRT should be in the northeast corner of the Rideau Centre, with an additional connection at Dalhousie and at street level at William, unless the alignment is changed to Mackenzie King Bridge (above ground, after short tunnels of Albert and/or Slater and an elevated guideway over Laurier, which was my preference all along).

8) Finally, the Ottawa Convention Centre should have aerial rights to upper levels above the Rideau Centre (i.e. 4th to 6th floors or higher - 4th in the southwest part and 6th in the southeast part) if they want to expand, although the rooftop terrace needs to remain, even if on a higher level.

It should all be done concurrently IMO, so that by 2020, Rideau area would look like a true hub of Ottawa. An alternate possibility is to expand on the north side of Rideau Street, but it would displace The Bay and several other retailers.

I would like to touch on a few of your points;

1) H&M would be a good candidate for part of Ogilvy’s.

2) Retail opening directly on Rideau should defiantly be a requirement, but we still need a few entrances into the mall itself; with the high level of pedestrian traffic, we need a wide, somewhat empty space to manage this traffic going through the mall.

3) Food court should in fact be moved, either in the old Sears or as part of the expansion, as long as it doesn’t take away from potential street level retail on Rideau or Nicholas (i.e. build it on the upper levels of the Centre, or as you suggested, Mackenzie King bridge).

6) DND won’t move out from their current HQ (Major-General George R. Pearkes building); the Nortel Campus is only to consolidate dozens smaller offices around the region. They want to reduce the number of locations from 42 to about 7. See 6th paragraph from the bottom;

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Da...911/story.html

I would like to see it demolished or repurposed as a hotel/residences in a few decades.

7) If the tunnel is built, it’s pretty much guaranteed that it will be under Rideau Street between the Bay and the Rideau Centre. Entrances will likely be at the Bay/Where the food court is now on the west side and Ogilvy’s/William Street pedestrian mall on the east side (maybe repurpose or tear down Scotia Bank and build a mixed use building with subway entrance).

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

"...although the rooftop terrace needs to remain, even if on a higher level."

I hate that rooftop terrace (and the wanna be movie theatre). Do people even use it? I've only seen a few people up there before. I don't ever see any events being held there. It could probably be used a lot better.

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on how to reuse the space being occupied by the movie theatre. I've never been in there. Could that be a potential site for the food court? Could that get people to use the rooftop terrace (if you add some nice outdoor dining furniture)?

[Ottawan]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

I hate that rooftop terrace (and the wanna be movie theatre). Do people even use it? I've only seen a few people up there before. I don't ever see any events being held there. It could probably be used a lot better.

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on how to reuse the space being occupied by the movie theatre. I've never been in there. Could that be a potential site for the food court? Could that get people to use the rooftop terrace (if you add some nice outdoor dining furniture)?

When I worked in the Market, I used the rooftop terrace extensively. It's almost troublesome to find a bench at lunch time, and I've seen people there other times. You can get some great photos from there.

I also have been to the Rideau Centre theatre a number of times, and while it's not packed, it seems to be doing fine business. Downtown does need (and can support) a couple theatres. Personally I don't think either of these spaces need to be changed (although an extension of the rooftop terrace onto any addition would be welcome).

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by Ottawan

I also have been to the Rideau Centre theatre a number of times, and while it's not packed, it seems to be doing fine business. Downtown does need (and can support) a couple theatres. Personally I don't think either of these spaces need to be changed (although an extension of the rooftop terrace onto any addition would be welcome).

Going up to the cinema floor of the mall makes me feel like I'm at the Yorkdale or Eaton Centre cinemas back in the '80s. They may be doing good business, but it doesn't look like something worthy of a city's downtown mall. They should at least spruce up the outside. I'm gonna take a peek inside some time over the next few weeks.

[Davis137]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Here is my thought:

6) Once the DND moves, the building should be redesigned into a large hotel.

This is incorrect. DND is NOT going to vacate this location. NDHQ will remain, while subordinate offices that are scattered everywhere will be moving in the future.

[J.OT13]

I think the rooftop terrace seems to be overgrown, and the pavement isn't pretty. It certainly needs revitalization and more usable space. Extending it with the expansion and having restaurants with patios up there might help. Something should also be done about the blank walls of the OCC and Transportation Building (the one that was the unofficial city hall between 1931 and 1958).

[Postmaster]

Expanding the terrace would be great, it's been lingering for a long time but has no real purpose apart from having a view and being a good place to eat your sandwich. I think they could do way more with it such as moving the food court up there. Most malls have their food courts on the upper levels from what I've seen over the years.

[J.OT13]

Would there be a possibility to repurpose or replace Scotia Bank on the corner of Rideau and William Street pedestrian mall to mixed use with a subway entrance. It seems to me that we don't have much room to build an entrance anywhere else on William.

Besides, that building looks odd on that corner; it just seems to low. They should replace it with a 3 storey building (same height as Urban Outfitters), mixed use with a restaurant on the top floor(s) and a rooftop terrace. And of course the subway entrance on Rideau.

We also need a new, larger OC Transpo customer service closer to the subway. It could be in the middle of the concourse connecting the Rideau Centre and The Bay/William Street to the north.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Would there be a possibility to repurpose or replace Scotia Bank on the corner of Rideau and William Street pedestrian mall to mixed use with a subway entrance. It seems to me that we don't have much room to build an entrance anywhere else on William.

Besides, that building looks odd on that corner; it just seems to low. They should replace it with a 3 storey building (same height as Urban Outfitters), mixed use with a restaurant on the top floor(s) and a rooftop terrace. And of course the subway entrance on Rideau.

We also need a new, larger OC Transpo customer service closer to the subway. It could be in the middle of the concourse connecting the Rideau Centre and The Bay/William Street to the north.

I was thinking about where they could possible fit a station entrance on William Street but the Scotiabank building would be a great location.

[J.OT13]

Found this pic on wikipedia today, gives us an idea (from diffrent angle than the city's document) of what Ogilvy's façade is suppose to look like if they stick with the 2006 expansion plans.

It's the first on the left, Caplan's (90 George, Rideau façade) is on the right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rideau_Street_06.jpg

[c_speed3108]

Sounds like all systems are go!

http://www.obj.ca/Real-Estate/Non-re...0M-expansion/1

-180,000 square feet over three floors of retail space on the north-east corner of the Rideau Centre
-Part of that space is now a parking lot. The other part is occupied by a three-storey building that was formerly an Ogilvy’s department store. The facade of that building – a heritage property – will be preserved in the expanded Rideau Centre.
-Mr. Iacono estimated it will cost $150 million to build the expansion, together with two underground floors of parking, bringing the mall’s total number of parking spots up to about 1,700.
-The other $100 million in the $250-million plan is to convert the Sears store, build a new food court and convert the existing food court into shops.
-New food is going in the bottom floor of Sears.
-The planned expansion will leave the Rideau Centre with about 80,000 square feet of space for further expansion at some future date. That space is on the west side of Nicholas Street, and includes the old city registry building, which sits empty and forlorn on the site.

I also noticed the other day fences are up around the Ogilvy's building.

[kevinbottawa]

Here's my favourite line in the whole article.

The bottom floor [of Sears] will be the site of a new food court for the Rideau Centre – larger than the existing food court on the Rideau Street-level floor. Space now occupied by the food court will be converted to retail space.

Music to my ears.

[eternallyme]

Do the owners of the Rideau Centre read this site I wonder??? They basically took the ideas straight from us!

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Do the owners of the Rideau Centre read this site I wonder??? They basically took the ideas straight from us!

In terms of the food court move that is pretty much standard mall design rules.

Back when Rideau was built the tendency was to put food courts on the bottom levels. The thinking was food smells rise.

The trend in newer malls (says late 80's on or so) was to put the food court on higher levels (basically further in). The thinking being that people coming in to grab a bite to eat would have to walk through more of the mall, thus increasing the chances that they (impulsively) buy stuff from other merchants.


It is the same reason they wanted the Rideau street bus routes moved to bridge when the LRT is built. It is also the same reason IKEA makes you go through "Market Hall" in order to get to the check-outs. People pick stuff up. Most retail is impulsive.

[J.OT13]

I'm glad this is going thru, but I am disappointed that they won't keep the old Ogilvy's; I figure that if the expansion is three floors, it's probably the exact (or close too) plans as in 2006 where they tear down Ogilvy's and only restore the 1909 façade. I'm also disappointed about the lack of a hotel announcement.

But hey, 1909 façade is way better than what they did in TO for the Eaton Centre (see corner of Young and Queen) and moving the food court in the old Sears lower level to free up some valuable Rideau Street retail is also good.

[J.OT13]

150 million for a 180,000 square feet expansion should be of very hight quality, same for a 100 million for the food court relocation considering that the 19 storey, 470,000 square foot EDC HQ was 150 million.

[spotlight]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

150 million for a 180,000 square feet expansion should be of very hight quality, same for a 100 million for the food court relocation considering that the 19 storey, 470,000 square foot EDC HQ was 150 million.

the 100 million isn't just for the new food court it's also for the re-do of the Nordstrom space as per the article

[kevinbottawa]

The Ottawa Citizen article has some more details, but I'm over my monthly limit so someone else will have to post it. Here's the link though:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/busines...837/story.html

Here are some interesting points:

-"We've had a grand vision for the property," Sal Iacono, eastern portfolio manager for Cadillac Fairview Corp. Lt..."

-"The rest of the mall will also be updated."

-"Preliminary artist's renderings of the new shopping area reveal that trendy clothing change H&M will be a tenant...An H&M logo is prominently featured as the anchor store in the rendering."

-"Ottawa shoppers spend more than $15.3 billion on retail annually."

-"Nabatian and other forum speakers said Victoria's Secret, Anne Taylor, J Crew and U.S.-based Mexican food chain Chipotles are among the chains looking for new or further Ottawa locations."