Canada Line races toward capacity

[casper]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Like the other commenter my idea was based somewhat off the idea that YVR may want to reconfigure stations, perhaps we would see an international station a domestic station and a station in a new parking structure, the looping direction might not be the current one either. Perhaps trains would go to the parking garage first, just throwing ideas out there....

What would be interesting is linking over to the south terminal building.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[ilikeredheads]

To link it to the south terminal, it would have to go through domestic terminal, and cross though multiple taxiways and runway. The distance is also longer than you think. Come on guys, one look at google maps and you'll realize how ridiculous and unrealistic this idea sounds.

[s211]

Originally Posted by casper

What would be interesting is linking over to the south terminal building.

If you mean interesting from a wildly-uneconomic argument for doing so, then yes.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[casper]

Originally Posted by s211

If you mean interesting from a wildly-uneconomic argument for doing so, then yes.

This is a city that is debating the merits of LRT in suburban Surrey after all.

More seriously an airport people mover that goes all the way down to Templeton and then around to South Terminal is not that out of the ordinary compared to other airports. Especially if along the way you have stops for parking and hotels.

Where else are you going to have an airport loop go that is not faster to walk?

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Imo with the speed of Vancouvers development, and the will to complete various megaprojects I doubt anything is really out of the realm of possibility. However I was just throwing an idea out there....

Be careful. We're still in the bubble. We could end up like Dubai if we're not conservative with those megaprojects...

Originally Posted by casper

This is a city that is debating the merits of LRT in suburban Surrey after all.

More seriously an airport people mover that goes all the way down to Templeton and then around to South Terminal is not that out of the ordinary compared to other airports. Especially if along the way you have stops for parking and hotels.

Where else are you going to have an airport loop go that is not faster to walk?

Wait a minute, wasn't the 3rd Runway supposed to cut into the South Terminal?
http://images.glaciermedia.ca/polopo...owin-out-2.jpg

[casper]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Be careful. We're still in the bubble. We could end up like Dubai if we're not conservative with those megaprojects...



Wait a minute, wasn't the 3rd Runway supposed to cut into the South Terminal?
http://images.glaciermedia.ca/polopo...owin-out-2.jpg

I thought that was the 4th runway. Is the 3rd runway not the one that is built on reclaimed by expanding sea island west.

The south terminal is also historically significant. It is the old terminal building from many years ago.

One can't get rid of the south terminal. Where will all the flights on small aircraft without the need for security go.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[s211]

Originally Posted by casper

This is a city that is debating the merits of LRT in suburban Surrey after all.

More seriously an airport people mover that goes all the way down to Templeton and then around to South Terminal is not that out of the ordinary compared to other airports. Especially if along the way you have stops for parking and hotels.

Where else are you going to have an airport loop go that is not faster to walk?

1) the number of connecting passengers from the south terminal has to be almost infinitesimal in comparison to traffic at the main terminal

2) I transferred from south terminal once and was shuttled; no problem

Sheer economics should be shutting this discussion down.

[tlo]

Originally Posted by casper

I thought that was the 4th runway. Is the 3rd runway not the one that is built on reclaimed by expanding sea island west.

The south terminal is also historically significant. It is the old terminal building from many years ago.

The third runway is the one on the north side of the island. It's the one for which the Cora Brown residents' land was expropriated in the 1970's but which then wasn't built until the 1990's.

If one looks at vintage aerial photos of the old airport (sorry, the "South Terminal") one can see that there was a runway which was removed when the new airport was built. Google Maps images show that fragments of that runway still exist. So the current third runway may actually be the fourth, and what's being discussed would be the fifth.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by casper

More seriously an airport people mover that goes all the way down to Templeton and then around to South Terminal is not that out of the ordinary compared to other airports. Especially if along the way you have stops for parking and hotels.

Where else are you going to have an airport loop go that is not faster to walk?

The Canada Line IS YVR's airport peoplemover
- that's why there's no fare between the 3 YVR stations, and was the justification for YVR paying for that branch of the line.
i.e. it killed 2 birds with one stone.

PS - Agreed that the South Terminal is too far away to realistically link with Canada Line (I was thinking the south end of the domestic terminal).

[officedweller]

From the River District thread.

The City of Vancouver may be allowing ONNI to back out of paying for a Cambie & 57th Canada Line Station - meaning it would likely never get built.

It's another example of the City being selfish and ignoring regional planning (i.e. the City will next scream for the Province or TransLink to pay for the station).

The underlying motivation here is the same reason why the municipalities oppose an increase in property taxes - they want the money for their own pet projects.

Originally Posted by Genauso

Unlikely that the planning department run by Vision Vancouver will do anything about it but blame/ask the province or translink.

The provincial government sold the former Vancouver Coastal Health 25.4 acre site 'The George Pearson Lands' for $302 million 2 years ago.

Onni and the City Planner are the beginning stages right now, but they're expecting 2,300,000 sq.ft. of residential space.

It's located at 57th & Cambie, where room was left to build a Canada Line station with the future redevelopment -- as Richmond is doing with Capstan Way, where the $25 million cost will be split among 3250 new units.

However recent private negotiations between the chief planner and Onni quietly settled on backing away from building the station @ 57th&Cambie, as they tested the waters at the open house. That's a very loyal city staffer right there showing disgust at inconsistency/favors

If $11 per sq.ft. is too much for the public to ask in return for about a billion in sales, then it's fire sale season by Vision Vancouver

Originally Posted by Genauso

...

• The deal for the Canada Line is the city pays for any stations built later.
  eg Richmond has to pay for Capstan way
  
• Mentioning the sale price of the Pearson lands is just to mention the scope. It's a huge project.
  
• When the City approves its rezoning, it is creating a lot of buildable floor space out of thin air worth a huge amount of money at market price. The income from rezonings is supposed to stay in the same community, and be spent on a project exactly like a subway station.
  
• The CoV is silently letting it be known it wants less money, or to redirect that money elsewhere. This is crazy, it goes clearly against the Greenest City Action plan they've spent hundreds of thousands in PR on.

All proposals are pre-approved by the planning department, it's a private negotiation and the open houses are a way of testing opposition. It will continue being amended privately and presented publicly until the planning department recommends it be privately withdrawn, or it goes to council and will get passed automatically. The only exception I know of right now was when retiring VV Councillor George Chow voted against the Shannon Mews giveaway.

So it is just an open-house presentation, but it is very significant. The indirect process is just how they cover their ass. If the opposition doesn't get worn down because they are not getting paid to work on the project, then the city will just say a silent majority approves, ignore all input, and it will be passed at a 2am meeting.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by casper

I thought that was the 4th runway. Is the 3rd runway not the one that is built on reclaimed by expanding sea island west.

The south terminal is also historically significant. It is the old terminal building from many years ago.

One can't get rid of the south terminal. Where will all the flights on small aircraft without the need for security go.

Boundary Bay? Wasn't that airport supposed to take the small craft traffic away from YVR?

And considering the foreshore runway is probably going to be built after the Parallel South Runway (potentially even a parallel North Runway too, if there's enough space, and we can infill MacDonald Slough.)


Also, don't we already have a 'historical' airport 'museum' at Langley?

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

We have the automated metro in common but, I think it mostly ends there!

It was a bit of hyperbole, but the point is that it's not really a good idea to overbuild when you're on the top of a bubble. You'll end up with empty or half-full megaprojects.

Originally Posted by tlo

The third runway is the one on the north side of the island. It's the one for which the Cora Brown residents' land was expropriated in the 1970's but which then wasn't built until the 1990's.

If one looks at vintage aerial photos of the old airport (sorry, the "South Terminal") one can see that there was a runway which was removed when the new airport was built. Google Maps images show that fragments of that runway still exist. So the current third runway may actually be the fourth, and what's being discussed would be the fifth.

The YVR refers to the south runway as the 3rd runway....

Unless the diagonal runway is no longer used, and is a backup strip?

[casper]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Boundary Bay? Wasn't that airport supposed to take the small craft traffic away from YVR?

.....
Also, don't we already have a 'historical' airport 'museum' at Langley?
.....

Having the regional flights go out of Boundary Bay would be a mistake. It would kill off Vancouver as a viable transfer point for many of the regional centers in BC. Many of thous airlines would likely be petitioning to go into the main terminal at that point. The only problem is suddenly they would have to go through the same security as all the other flights.

There are a lot of scheduled flights from the south terminal to places like Victoria, Nanaimo, Bella Bella, Campbell River, Fort St. John, Prince Rupert, Prince George, Tofino, Comox, Masset, Sechelt, and the gulf islands.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Aroundtheworld]

Originally Posted by officedweller

From the River District thread.

The City of Vancouver may be allowing ONNI to back out of paying for a Cambie & 57th Canada Line Station - meaning it would likely never get built.

It's another example of the City being selfish and ignoring regional planning (i.e. the City will next scream for the Province or TransLink to pay for the station).

The underlying motivation here is the same reason why the municipalities oppose an increase in property taxes - they want the money for their own pet projects.

If this is true, this is highly disturbing and really doesn't make sense for any of the parties unless somebody (Onni) is trying to get into somebody's (COV) good books.

[Sheba]

I'm going to leave this here: Costly and ineffective Canada Line is far from the success suggested July 27, 2016

Re: Bridging the rapid transit gap, Community Comment, July 20


The piece by ML Burke has more holes than Swiss cheese. The claim that the Canada Line is an "unprecedented success" is sheer nonsense.

The Canada Line's station platforms are a mere 40 metres long and can handle only two-car trains and effectively has half the capacity of the rest of the light-metro system, which has station platforms 80 metres long and can handle four-and six-car trains of Mk.1 2 stock.

For added insult, the Canada Line is not compatible in operation with the proprietary ALRT/ART light metro system.

The Canada Line is the only heavy rail metro in the world built as a light metro and has less capacity than a simple tram costing a fraction to build.

The Canada Line has been effectively at capacity during peak hours because all South Delta and Surrey buses, as well as all Richmond buses, are forced to transfer their passengers onto the Canada Line if they wish to go to Vancouver.

Internationally, the Canada Line is seen as a bit of a joke, especially when its operating costs are about three times more than comparable light rail operations.

Rail transit is not part of the proposed George Massey Tunnel bridge replacement and if rails are not laid when the bridge is built, they never will, as engineering a bridge for rail traffic is quite different than for cars.

The current Liberal government only builds regional rail projects for photo-ops at election time (note: the Evergreen Line's opening has been delayed to just before next year's election) and the massive costs for extending the Canada Line across the South Arm of the Fraser, including the virtual rebuilding of the original line to increase capacity, would amount to well over $5 billion.

There are efficient and affordable ways to provide rail transit, but I'm afraid the B.C. Liberals are blind, deaf and mute to such proposals.

Under the B.C. Liberal leadership, the Metro Vancouver region has passed the point of no return with public transit solutions and the future is bleak with rubber and asphalt solutions, including new bridges and highways to pretend they are improving gridlock and pollution, while the opposite, increased congestion and pollution, happens.

The proposed multibillion-dollar bridge, without rail, is a harbinger of things to come.


D. Malcolm Johnston

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by casper

Having the regional flights go out of Boundary Bay would be a mistake. It would kill off Vancouver as a viable transfer point for many of the regional centers in BC. Many of thous airlines would likely be petitioning to go into the main terminal at that point. The only problem is suddenly they would have to go through the same security as all the other flights.

There are a lot of scheduled flights from the south terminal to places like Victoria, Nanaimo, Bella Bella, Campbell River, Fort St. John, Prince Rupert, Prince George, Tofino, Comox, Masset, Sechelt, and the gulf islands.

Then go through Abbotsford. It's not in the middle of nowhere, and is probably more suited for the smaller planes than YVR.

Otherwise, build a Terminal 4 at the South end of YVR.


Also, Boundary Bay could be accessed by commuter Rail and Hwy 99 BRT for transit.

Originally Posted by Sheba

I'm going to leave this here: Costly and ineffective Canada Line is far from the success suggested July 27, 2016

The only rail that might go over GMB is Heavy/Commuter/Freight Rail...

And that's probably not happening.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I'm going to leave this here: Costly and ineffective Canada Line is far from the success suggested July 27, 2016

It's Malcolm Johnston - everyone ignores him.