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  #8281  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2011, 6:27 AM
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This is how the UPAC should be done, IMHO:
The red line is what should be the footprint of this development, even the theatre itself if it requires that much space.
The green colored area is where the Office tower should be located with the theater occupying the ground floor, if necessary, and ground floor retail lining the streets (I have drawn a gray line where I think there should be a pedestrian walkway connecting Main Street and Regent Street)
The Yellow area represents the area required to be demolished to make room for the theatre.
Black lines represent ground floor retail lining the streets.

Ideally, the office tower would be designed to complement the architecture of the Metro building. The main floor of the Metro building would be built into the theatre and include street front retail. Furthermore, all Main street facing retail in this development would have a consistent architecture, to create a since of place. For example, the Metal X’s on the front of the Metro building could be extended to the entire Main street front of this development.
Also, the building between the Deseret news building and the Bennion building should be kept. I forgot about it while I was drawing this map.
In this plan, the theatre and street level retail would help create a more vibrant downtown, while the modern office building contrasted by the older tribune and Metro buildings, would help preserve the unique character of Main street.


I got the base map from Bing Maps: http://www.bing.com/maps/?FORM=Z9LH4

Last edited by RC14; Nov 24, 2011 at 6:41 AM.
     
     
  #8282  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2011, 6:48 AM
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The Seagull Building is rubbish. I'd rather we save the Tribune Building and the Red Sandstone Building. And if possible that cool building next to the tribune building with the neat interior.
     
     
  #8283  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2011, 6:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC14 View Post
This is how the UPAC should be done, IMHO:
The red line is what should be the footprint of this development, even the theatre itself if it requires that much space.
The green colored area is where the Office tower should be located with the theater occupying the ground floor, if necessary, and ground floor retail lining the streets (I have drawn a gray line where I think there should be a pedestrian walkway connecting Main Street and Regent Street)
The Yellow area represents the area required to be demolished to make room for the theatre.
Black lines represent ground floor retail lining the streets.

Ideally, the office tower would be designed to complement the architecture of the Metro building. The main floor of the Metro building would be built into the theatre and include street front retail. Furthermore, all Main street facing retail in this development would have a consistent architecture, to create a since of place. For example, the Metal X’s on the front of the Metro building could be extended to the entire Main street front of this development.
Also, the building between the Deseret news building and the Bennion building should be kept. I forgot about it while I was drawing this map.
In this plan, the theatre and street level retail would help create a more vibrent downtown, while the modern office building contrasted by the older tribune and Metro buildings, would help preserve the unique character of Main street.


I got the base map from Bing Maps: http://www.bing.com/maps/?FORM=Z9LH4
I personally dislike those Xs. I think it would be better if they restored that building to the way it used to be (with rooftop gardens, and a sunken garden on Main Street).
     
     
  #8284  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2011, 6:52 AM
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Originally Posted by s.p.hansen View Post
The Seagull Building is rubbish. I'd rather we save the Tribune Building and the Red Sandstone Building. And if possible that cool building next to the tribune building with the neat interior.
Which building is the one with the neat interior? Do you have any pictures?
     
     
  #8285  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2011, 7:02 AM
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I personally dislike those Xs. I think it would be better if they restored that building to the way it used to be (with rooftop gardens, and a sunken garden on Main Street).
I like that idea better. The Xs was just an example, the point is, I think there should be some unity to the retail part of the development so it doesn't look like we just gutted a bunch of random buildings and put a theatre inside.
     
     
  #8286  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2011, 8:02 AM
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I don't believe for a second that there is no other suitable spot for a theater anywhere else downtown- or that it would be impossible to get other owners to sell their land for the theater. That's basically what happened at the preferred site isn't it?
The study done by the mayor's brother several years ago recommended the Main St. site, and one of the real estate arms of the LDS Church began buying up the individual pieces of land so that they could be re-sold for the theater.
If I recall correctly, the Tribune building is owned by Vasilios Priskos, and I've not seen anything in any article about the theater that mentions he is at all involved in these schemes for the land he owns, so ownership of the land UPAC wants doesn't seem to be that important to them anyway.
If the city needs a theater, I can support the city getting behind the project financially, but tying it to an office building that requires demolishing half a block of our city is pretty fishy, especially since it will be replacing the empty former Tribune office building and will sit next to the empty former DesNews building. If more office space is that critical in SLC, you'd think someone would have occupied those and many other empty or partially empty buildings that already exist downtown.
The Deseret News Bldg isn't empty. A.P. leases most of it.
     
     
  #8287  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2011, 8:06 AM
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Originally Posted by s.p.hansen View Post
The Seagull Building is rubbish. I'd rather we save the Tribune Building and the Red Sandstone Building. And if possible that cool building next to the tribune building with the neat interior.
The red sandstone building is not going to be torn down. It's never been part of the discussion.
     
     
  #8288  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2011, 1:23 PM
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Forbes Magazine ranks Utah 'the best state for business'

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...-business.html

Joey Ferguson, Deseret News

Utah is the best state for business, Forbes Magazine reported Tuesday, illustrating the positive economic outlook and job growth...


The snow-covered Wasatch Mountains tower over the modern skyline of historic downtown Salt Lake City. (Ray Boren, for the Deseret News)

...Utah's energy costs, which are 31 percent below the national average, and its 5 percent corporate tax rate helped it top neighboring states, Forbes said. Employment grew 0.6 percent on average over the past five years. Forbes measured states on six categories, including costs, labor supply, regulatory environment, current economic climate, growth prospects and quality of life...


.
     
     
  #8289  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2011, 5:28 PM
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Originally Posted by arkhitektor View Post
If the city needs a theater, I can support the city getting behind the project financially, but tying it to an office building that requires demolishing half a block of our city is pretty fishy, especially since it will be replacing the empty former Tribune office building and will sit next to the empty former DesNews building. If more office space is that critical in SLC, you'd think someone would have occupied those and many other empty or partially empty buildings that already exist downtown.
Exactly.... And someone was trying to tell me this wasn't a real estate deal.
     
     
  #8290  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2011, 12:53 AM
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Exactly.... And someone was trying to tell me this wasn't a real estate deal.

I'm sorry but no, you can't call shenanigans on the LDS Church or the city on this one. The LDS Church is selling the land at a loss and will own no part of what is being developed. The Mayor and the City Council are not hooking up a developer city government member with this deal.

I'm fine with you being against the project (the current proposal has plenty of obvious problems), but be against it for rational reasons.

Jedikermit and myself went to the meeting that the city hosted where the different Performing Arts Centers' directors spoke about their different setups. It's very popular to develop a business tower next to new Performing Arts Centers. Just like it is popular to do the same with malls. And hate it all that you want, but the best place making comes from good street engagement and landmarks. Having a well designed theatre and tall tower will make this development a magnet, much more so than the modernist rubbish designed my the Trans America Pyramid guy and the fake historic jewelry store building.

Dayton Ohio: Benjamin & Marian Schuster Performing Arts Center












In a perfect world people will fight this development and force them to make the office tower taller to reduce its footprint.

Last edited by s.p.hansen; Nov 25, 2011 at 1:44 AM.
     
     
  #8291  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2011, 1:17 AM
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Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!





     
     
  #8292  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2011, 1:20 AM
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Thanks T-Mac.

It does my heart good to see 222 filling up with tenants.

Last edited by s.p.hansen; Nov 25, 2011 at 1:34 AM.
     
     
  #8293  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2011, 2:42 AM
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Originally Posted by s.p.hansen View Post
I'm sorry but no, you can't call shenanigans on the LDS Church or the city on this one. The LDS Church is selling the land at a loss and will own no part of what is being developed. The Mayor and the City Council are not hooking up a developer city government member with this deal.

I'm fine with you being against the project (the current proposal has plenty of obvious problems), but be against it for rational reasons.

Jedikermit and myself went to the meeting that the city hosted where the different Performing Arts Centers' directors spoke about their different setups. It's very popular to develop a business tower next to new Performing Arts Centers. Just like it is popular to do the same with malls. And hate it all that you want, but the best place making comes from good street engagement and landmarks. Having a well designed theatre and tall tower will make this development a magnet, much more so than the modernist rubbish designed my the Trans America Pyramid guy and the fake historic jewelry store building.
I'm not against the project. I simply have misgivings because I think the city is naive about some things. And my reasons are rational. You just continue to misunderstand me.
When I say it's a real estate thing, I'm not saying it's a shady, in bed with a developer type thing, I'm just saying this is about a big new development downtown, across from CCC to redevelop a block.
That's not, of itself, a bad thing. I'm obviously all in favor of most developments downtown.
My contention is that they keep saying it's about the arts. It's not. Because this will ultimately hurt the other arts venues in the city. Maybe not to a drastic, fatal degree, but it will hurt them. That's all I'm saying. They're billing this as a boon to the arts, but that's crap.
Let me be clear. I like the idea of the the PAC. I'm sure it would be gorgeous. I'm sure it would do great things for main and Regent street. But I'm simply not convinced that Salt Lake has the demand. The "studies" they've quoted have been vague and shallow. I'd love a great new venue downtown, but not at the expense of our great but delicate art scene.
     
     
  #8294  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2011, 2:48 AM
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Originally Posted by scottharding View Post
I am against the project for rational reasons. You just continue to misunderstand me.
When I say it's a real estate thing, I'm not saying it's a shady, in bed with a developer type thing, I'm just saying this is about a big new development downtown, across from CCC to redevelop a block.
That's not, of itself, a bad thing. I'm obviously all in favor of most developments downtown.
My contention is that they keep saying it's about the arts. It's not. Because this will ultimately hurt the other arts venues in the city. Maybe not to a drastic, fatal degree, but it will hurt them. That's all I'm saying. They're billing this as a boon to the arts, but that's crap.

OK, I got ya. You're upset because this is really about checking something off the list to compete with other cities. It's a Kantian critique: SLC is using the arts community as a means to an end instead treating it as an end in itself.

Last edited by s.p.hansen; Nov 25, 2011 at 3:04 AM.
     
     
  #8295  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2011, 2:53 AM
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Yes. That's what I'm saying.
     
     
  #8296  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2011, 3:08 AM
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Yes. That's what I'm saying.

I think the intention may not be pure, but I have a hard time seeing how the outcome is going to disturb the ecosystem of our arts community.

I'm actually writing about this for my Urban Ecology class and I can't find data backing the assertion that building a new performing arts center on this scale implodes smaller venues. All indicators seem to point the other direction.
     
     
  #8297  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2011, 2:10 PM
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If I can get all cheesy for just a second:

Since Thanksgiving Day was yesterday, and it kind of primes the pump for inappropriate outbursts of what you're thankful for all the time, but don't express... I'm thankful that I live in such an amazing city. Despite its many flaws in design, architecture, and humanity, Salt Lake City is a beautiful city, in a setting that makes me appreciate nature/life/God every single day. In that RadioWest a few weeks ago about the new museum, the architect said "every DAY in Utah is an epiphany," talking about the mountains and canyons and colors and...everything around us. Almost every morning when I drive to school, I'm driving into a sunrise that makes me appreciate life a little more. I love how the mountains surrounding the Salt Lake Valley feel like you're being cupped in the hands of a giant granitey (quartz monzonite?) giant. I'm going on too long with this. I love where I live. Not everyone can say that. I'm thankful that even though development of new buildings and projects has slowed, SLC hasn't tanked the way so many other cities in the nation have. I'm thankful that future developments are even in discussion, let alone seeing the plans coming along for the UPAC, the seeds for a convention hotel, and more. I'm thankful for this forum, with contention along the edges now and then, but always seeing the different opinions, and the different directions and visions that people have for this city. I'm more a lurker and backseat kibitzer who doesn't know jack about urban planning or architecture, but I learn a lot from reading all of your comments, and I appreciate it. And those of you that take so many pictures and take the time to share them with us--thanks. Anyway. Thanksgiving. Blah blah blah. Love this place.
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  #8298  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2011, 2:12 PM
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Dayton Ohio: Benjamin & Marian Schuster Performing Arts Center



I still love their stupid, cheesy "stars on the day that the Wright Brothers flew their stupid plane" ceiling. Jerks.
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  #8299  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2011, 5:28 PM
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If I can get all cheesy for just a second:

Since Thanksgiving Day was yesterday, and it kind of primes the pump for inappropriate outbursts of what you're thankful for all the time, but don't express... I'm thankful that I live in such an amazing city. Despite its many flaws in design, architecture, and humanity, Salt Lake City is a beautiful city, in a setting that makes me appreciate nature/life/God every single day. In that RadioWest a few weeks ago about the new museum, the architect said "every DAY in Utah is an epiphany," talking about the mountains and canyons and colors and...everything around us. Almost every morning when I drive to school, I'm driving into a sunrise that makes me appreciate life a little more. I love how the mountains surrounding the Salt Lake Valley feel like you're being cupped in the hands of a giant granitey (quartz monzonite?) giant. I'm going on too long with this. I love where I live. Not everyone can say that. I'm thankful that even though development of new buildings and projects has slowed, SLC hasn't tanked the way so many other cities in the nation have. I'm thankful that future developments are even in discussion, let alone seeing the plans coming along for the UPAC, the seeds for a convention hotel, and more. I'm thankful for this forum, with contention along the edges now and then, but always seeing the different opinions, and the different directions and visions that people have for this city. I'm more a lurker and backseat kibitzer who doesn't know jack about urban planning or architecture, but I learn a lot from reading all of your comments, and I appreciate it. And those of you that take so many pictures and take the time to share them with us--thanks. Anyway. Thanksgiving. Blah blah blah. Love this place.

I do enjoy the beautiful setting of Salt Lake City. It too makes me appreciate nature/life everyday!
     
     
  #8300  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2011, 5:36 PM
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Originally Posted by s.p.hansen View Post
I think the intention may not be pure, but I have a hard time seeing how the outcome is going to disturb the ecosystem of our arts community.

I'm actually writing about this for my Urban Ecology class and I can't find data backing the assertion that building a new performing arts center on this scale implodes smaller venues. All indicators seem to point the other direction.
I am genuinely interested in seeing some of that data, if you're willing to share.

For me, it's easy to see the UPAC selling out it's shows on a regular basis, but those shows won't be in addition to the big musicals, comedians, and musicians who play Kingsbury and Capitol. It will be in place of them. So what goes into those older venues instead? Less popular shows at best, and they'll be harder to sell. They're ticket prices will have to come down too.
And then, what about those theatre companies here that already compete with one another for patrons? It tends to be the same crowd that patron all the different arts venues, and they only have so much disposable income. I'm sure the UPAC wouldn't hurt Plan B theater or the Salt Lake Acting Company, but it would hurt Pioneer Theater company.
     
     
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