Laurentian High School redevelopment | Proposed

[Richard Eade]

There doesn't seem to be any thought about the Baseline BRT.

[Rathgrith]

What the hell is the architecture theme going to be?

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

There doesn't seem to be any thought about the Baseline BRT.

It is mentioned in the traffic study and there are provisions for a major transit stop in the planning rationale

[Lloyd]

Post removed.

[waterloowarrior]

Staff Report recommending approval... some interesting site specific zoning

[Dado]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Staff Report recommending approval... some interesting site specific zoning

Also some interesting commentary in the section 'Assessment of Development Proposal'.

The following is worth reading:


Not having the development street oriented, in staff’s view, can also frustrate achieving more intense development where surface parking is currently proposed adding further to the significance of certain details of staff’s recommendation. With a street orientation as called for by the Official Plan, there exists potential to replace the surface parking with structured parking and higher profile residential and/or office development above. In this regard, notwithstanding the allowed heights under the Official Plan for development along arterial mainstreets and the applicant’s proposal for a low profile development with three-storey and one storey buildings along Baseline Road and Clyde Avenue, the Official Plan as noted allows for eight storey development along arterial mainstreets and supports higher buildings where any one of several conditions are meet. Under this policy, staff feel that buildings to a height of 15 storeys can be accommodated internally on the site with height limits stepping down to the north to ensure a compatible relationship between heights on the site and adjacent areas to the north while limiting heights adjacent to the street edge to eight stories.

Higher profile development internal to the site with an eight storey street edge profile will allow for intensifying development and would better define the street at a building height to street width ratio that can further advance the Official Plan and Arterial Mainstreet design guideline objectives for having the street transformed to a more pedestrian focused urban street. However, the site needs to be organized such that this further intensification can be easily achieved. The applicant’s development concept as reflected in Document 4 in staff’s view, with the required street orientation for uses for the perimeter buildings, will allow for achieving this more intense development.

With respect to the applicant’s current low profile proposal, and especially the one storey street edge buildings proposed, while staff would prefer that all street edge buildings have a minimum height of two stories, staff are prepared to accept the proposed one storey elements provided the buildings have an effective height that would be associated with a two storey building. This will ensure that the urban design objectives associated with having multiple storey buildings so as to contain the street and to support the evolution of the street from one that has been designed as a traffic artery to a more urban street that is enclosed by buildings of appropriate height to make the street a more humane environment for pedestrians and diminish its automobile oriented design will be achieved. Staff are satisfied that the current development program will provide for the basic framework to achieve this.


One can almost hear the writer saying to the developer "you should have submitted something with more height!"

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by Dado

Also some interesting commentary in the section 'Assessment of Development Proposal'.

One can almost hear the writer saying to the developer "you should have submitted something with more height!"

This happens quite often in that planning staff believe in higher densities tighter setbacks etc, and the councillors and local residents wanting something less dense and further back etc. The fun begins in the balancing act to enable the developer to build something that will work for them and also avoid the sometimes inevitable OMB hearing.

I can foresee Chiarelli rounding up the locals on this one trying to fight this.

[drawarc]

OBJ article:

News Story
SmartCentres proposes retail, office space for old Laurentian High School

By Peter Kovessy, Ottawa Business Journal Staff
Tue, Sep 15, 2009 12:00 PM EST

A major Canadian retail developer is asking the city to rezone the site of a former Nepean school so it can build roughly 301,600 square feet of retail and office space, according to a city report.

By comparison, that is more than twice the size of the retail development anchored by Canadian Tire at Carling Avenue and the Queensway.

The first phase of SmartCentres' development of the former Laurentian High School, located at the northwest intersection of Baseline Road and Clyde Avenue, near Merivale Road, would be a single standalone 99,028-square-foot retail store in the northeast corner of the 15.37-acre site.

The remainder of the property would be framed by buildings one to three storeys in height along Baseline Road and Clyde Avenue, with the upper floors featuring approximately 82,020 square feet of office space. The site would contain 219,600 square feet of total retail space, according to the report being tabled at next Tuesday's planning and environment committee meeting.

Outside the downtown core, the area features one of the city's tightest retail space markets.

At mid-year, there was a paltry 2.5 per cent retail vacancy rate along the Merivale corridor in Nepean, according to commercial real estate services firm Cushman & Wakefield LePage.

SmartCentres purchased the property from the Ottawa-Carleton District School Board for $21.26 million in 2005.

Planning documents drafted by Lloyd Phillips & Associates Ltd. for SmartCentres a year ago say residential developers were contacted about the property. However, their response was either disinterest or an insistence on an unacceptable business arrangement due to highly differing land values, according to SmartCentres, which says it wants to eventually include residential uses for the site, but will focus on retail, service, and office uses in the short term.

[waterloowarrior]

Lincoln Fields at risk if Laurentian H.S. site redeveloped, mall's rep says



http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ot...453/story.html
By Patrick Dare, The Ottawa CitizenSeptember 22, 2009 2:11 PM
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OTTAWA — A lawyer representing the owner of the Lincoln Fields Shopping Centre says the centre could go out of business if the city approves construction of a big-box development on Baseline Road.


Kristi Ross, a lawyer for RioCan, the commercial real estate company, told city council’s planning and environment committee Tuesday that if SmartCentres lures Wal-Mart from Lincoln Fields, the mall could go into decline and possibly close.


She said it would be the kind of urban blight seen in the United States when dramatic economic shifts happen in cities.


A 116,645-square-foot Wal-Mart operates in Lincoln Fields, accounting for about 40 per cent of the shopping centre’s space.


Ross was seeking a refusal or a delay in the zoning approval for the SmartCentres development on the former Laurentian High School site, where a large store of almost 150,000 square feet is proposed. As well, the developer wants to build smaller retail and office buildings along Baseline Road and Clyde Avenue.


Lincoln Fields is about five kilometres from the Laurentian development, which has also generated opposition from nearby Copeland Park residents who are worried about traffic implications of the project.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Lincoln Fields at risk if Laurentian H.S. site redeveloped, mall's rep says



http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ot...453/story.html
By Patrick Dare, The Ottawa CitizenSeptember 22, 2009 2:11 PM
Be the first to post a comment

OTTAWA — A lawyer representing the owner of the Lincoln Fields Shopping Centre says the centre could go out of business if the city approves construction of a big-box development on Baseline Road.


Kristi Ross, a lawyer for RioCan, the commercial real estate company, told city council’s planning and environment committee Tuesday that if SmartCentres lures Wal-Mart from Lincoln Fields, the mall could go into decline and possibly close.


She said it would be the kind of urban blight seen in the United States when dramatic economic shifts happen in cities.


A 116,645-square-foot Wal-Mart operates in Lincoln Fields, accounting for about 40 per cent of the shopping centre’s space.


Ross was seeking a refusal or a delay in the zoning approval for the SmartCentres development on the former Laurentian High School site, where a large store of almost 150,000 square feet is proposed. As well, the developer wants to build smaller retail and office buildings along Baseline Road and Clyde Avenue.


Lincoln Fields is about five kilometres from the Laurentian development, which has also generated opposition from nearby Copeland Park residents who are worried about traffic implications of the project.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

I'm sorry but this presentation (I didn't see it or hear but have just read about it here) smacks of protectionism....face it Lincoln Fields...if you can't compete in today's marketplace with your collection of stores, it is time to reinvent yourself.

How did this presentation come across with Council...could they see right through it or did they give it some weight.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Lincoln Fields at risk if Laurentian H.S. site redeveloped, mall's rep says

Frankly I'm not sure that's such a bad thing.... Lincoln Fields is a prime location that has been headed downhill as a mall for a long time.... maybe this would be the incentive to finally re-develop this land.

[Dado]

I wonder if representatives from Lincoln Heights (I thought it was "Lincoln Heights Galleria", "Fields" being the station) showed up to oppose the latest expansion plans at Bayshore or those of Ikea at Iris? This to me sounds like "reaching". I remain to be convinced that Wal-Mart would even move from that location given that they cannot rely on everyone who goes there now to go to a store at the Laurentian site; I would have thought that a store at Laurentian would be a new one.


But leaving that aside, if the management at Lincoln Heights is so concerned about their future then perhaps they should look around and try to capitalize on being next to a major rapid transit station as well as in an area of reasonably high density. They can start by making it easier to get to the station by doing something about that chain link fence on the east side of the property, and perhaps enter into discussions with the City to get a pedestrian walkway put in. The part of the property nearest the station, which is a steeply sloped parking lot that is not too often used (complete with warnings about parking there if you're not a customer), is just crying out for something like an office building to be built on it. Failing that, try putting in a condo tower - there have got to be people willing to buy condos in a tower overlooking greenspace next to a shopping centre with a grocery store and next to future LRT station to downtown.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

I'm sorry but this presentation (I didn't see it or hear but have just read about it here) smacks of protectionism....face it Lincoln Fields...if you can't compete in today's marketplace with your collection of stores, it is time to reinvent yourself.

How did this presentation come across with Council...could they see right through it or did they give it some weight.

Yeah Ottawa ditched market studies with the new (03) OP, so I don't think they can really do anything about it.

No headphones so I missed the presentation.



Here's the disposition from todays Committee meeting

2. ZONING - 1357 BASELINE ROAD
ZONAGE - 1357, CHEMIN BASELINE
ACS2009-ICS-PGM-0131 river/rivière (16)


(This application is subject to Bill 51)

That the Planning and Environment Committee recommend Council approve an amendment to the Zoning By-law 2008-250 to change the zoning of 1357 Baseline Road from I1A – Minor Institutional Subzone A to AM[***] Sch [***] – h – Arterial Mainstreet Special Exception Holding Zone as detailed in Document 2; as amended as follows:

1. Revised Point 18 to read:

A maximum of 750 surface parking spaces may be provided for the entire site; the parking spaces may be installed as the development proceeds in phases; the parking spaces may not be located in the required or provided front or side yards abutting a street, or more particularly in the setback of said yards which setback may not exceed 7.0 metres.

2. Revised Point 2 to read:

Where a single large format store is located in the east portion of the site as part of the first phase of development, that at least two of the six buildings shown on the concept plan (included as Document 4) shall be constructed also as part of the first phase along Baseline and Clyde, with at least one building located at the corner of Baseline and Clyde. And, that these buildings be completed for occupancy within three years of the commencement of construction of the large format store.

3. Additions to Point 20 to read:

k. Prior to any site plan being approved, that a full community meeting be held, involving the applicant, Copeland Park Community, City View Community, Central Park Community, City planning staff and the Ward Councillors representing these communities.

l. The Owner(s) not object to the formation of a Business Improvement Area for the Merivale commercial corridor that would include the Owner(s) lands.

m. The Owner(s) agree through the site plan agreement to participate in future Community Design Plan Study for the Baseline/Clyde/Merivale triangle.

4. That pursuant to the Planning Act, subsection 34(17) no further notice be given.

CARRIED as amended

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Dado

I wonder if representatives from Lincoln Heights (I thought it was "Lincoln Heights Galleria", "Fields" being the station) showed up to oppose the latest expansion plans at Bayshore or those of Ikea at Iris? This to me sounds like "reaching". I remain to be convinced that Wal-Mart would even move from that location given that they cannot rely on everyone who goes there now to go to a store at the Laurentian site; I would have thought that a store at Laurentian would be a new one.


But leaving that aside, if the management at Lincoln Heights is so concerned about their future then perhaps they should look around and try to capitalize on being next to a major rapid transit station as well as in an area of reasonably high density. They can start by making it easier to get to the station by doing something about that chain link fence on the east side of the property, and perhaps enter into discussions with the City to get a pedestrian walkway put in. The part of the property nearest the station, which is a steeply sloped parking lot that is not too often used (complete with warnings about parking there if you're not a customer), is just crying out for something like an office building to be built on it. Failing that, try putting in a condo tower - there have got to be people willing to buy condos in a tower overlooking greenspace next to a shopping centre with a grocery store and next to future LRT station to downtown.

The name of the mall changed a few years ago so it is now the same as the station.... my understanding is that the owners of the mall refused to participate in any pedestrian to the station back when it was built in 1983, so the inconvenient connection to transit is their own fault.

But like I said- it is prime real estate that is horribly underutilized right now... if Wal-Mart does move out I'm sure the mall owners will still make a profit selling the land off for residential and office development.

[waterloowarrior]

Panel OKs ‘ugly as sin’ Baseline site proposal
  
BY PATRICK DARE, THE OTTAWA CITIZENSEPTEMBER 22, 2009 11:11 PM
 
OTTAWA-A large commercial development on Baseline Road won the reluctant approval of the planning committee Tuesday after the chairman lamented the fact that Ottawa can’t compel developers to build true mixed-use projects.

SmartCentres will build a big-box store on the 15-acre site of the former Laurentian High School along Baseline Road and Clyde Avenue

The development, which will also include smaller stores and office buildings, will be worth at least $60 million.

The project will see 217,000 square feet of retail space, 98,000 square feet of offices and up to 750 parking spaces in a large lot behind buildings along Baseline and Clyde.

Copeland Park residents said the Baseline-Clyde intersection is already choked with cars and a big-box store would only make things worse.

One planning committee member said the site was an important one for the city and its policies of intensification — building more on less land — and building neighbourhoods with a mix of stores, residences and offices.

“This is a total waste of this land — total asphalt,” said Councillor Diane Holmes. “It’s going to be as ugly as sin.”

But the project enjoyed support from city staff, other councillors and some community members who said it was far better than what was originally proposed when SmartCentres bought the land from the Ottawa-Carleton District School Board for

$21 million.

Liz Allan, president of the Central Park Community Association, said pedestrian access had been improved and “traffic issues are part of living in a large urban centre.”

City planner John Smit said the development fits well into the official plan and Baseline Road’s role as a main street in that plan.

While the nearby intersection will be modified as part of the development, the long-term answer to the congestion problem is planned bus lanes along Baseline and a transit station nearby.

Dennis Eberhard, vice-president of development for SmartCentres, said he expects the neighbours to become customers and employees of the stores and offices that are built.

“This is an inner-city site. There’s going to be more traffic,” said Eberhard.

Peter Hume, chairman of the planning committee, supported the project, said he wished the city had the legal power to place conditional zoning on properties so that projects would have to include housing elements.

Hume said other cities are getting developments with condo apartments above or next to large stores, but Ottawa is missing out on this livelier form of development. In this case, there’s a chance for a residential tower in the future, but that element is not assured.

Hume also said that planning authorities should also have the power to require minimum standards for architecture to improve the appearance of the city.

Councillor Clive Doucet called the Baseline project a backward step and left the committee room to avoid voting on the issue altogether.

One of the objectors to the project was a lawyer for a competing shopping centre, Lincoln Fields, who argued that such a development could doom her clients if

Walmart were to move to the SmartCentres site.

However, after lunch, lawyer Kristi Ross withdrew the objection of RioCan, which owns Lincoln Fields. Ross said RioCan and Walmart have worked out a deal so that Walmart will remain a tenant for several years.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen
 
 http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Panel+u...648/story.html
 

[harls]

However, after lunch, lawyer Kristi Ross withdrew the objection of RioCan, which owns Lincoln Fields. Ross said RioCan and Walmart have worked out a deal so that Walmart will remain a tenant for several years.

The deal between Wal-Mart and RioCan must have been impossible to refuse. The Laurentian site positively screams "Wal-Mart".

[wingman]

Originally Posted by harls

The deal between Wal-Mart and RioCan must have been impossible to refuse. The Laurentian site positively screams "Wal-Mart".

Who is to say they will not build a Wal-Mart Superstore at the Laurentian location?

With all the apartments in the LF area, and no Wal-Mart currently in the Merivalle area I have no doubt they would both succeed. I do agree though that if Wal-Mart leaves LF, that place is done.

I also agree with the notion of a mixed development there, kinda like the Dix-30 development on the south shore of Montreal (Brossard I think).

[harls]

^ that's true, I guess they could build another Wal-Mart there - kind of like how they did in Gatineau with the SmartCentre location and not-so-far away Maloney store. Both seem to be doing well.

[wingman]

Exactement!

Now I am not saying I want another Wal-Mart in Ottawa, I'm just saying it could happen

[RTWAP]

I hope Lincoln Fields fails as a mall. It really needs to be redeveloped. It's a large property, well served by transit and roads. There should be lots of interesting options available.

I agree with Councilor Hume. It's too bad the city can't approve conditional zoning, require residential development, and enforce architectural standards.