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  #101  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 11:41 AM
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Providence feels like a miniature version of Boston. I guess that is to be expected though when they're only an hours drive apart!

Boston, Montreal, and Philadelphia all feel like siblings architecturally, although each with distinctively different personalities overall.
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  #102  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 11:52 AM
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Boston’s London comparison is quite apt I feel. Boston and Dublin have substantial similarities and atmosphere as well, and it’s not because of the Irish connection (ok, it is a bit).

Halifax might be the closest North American city in feel to Boston on the whole, while sections of Philly are physically more similar to sections of Boston than anywhere else in NA.

Portland is more of a mini-Boston than Providence is, by a good bit.
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  #103  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 12:05 PM
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Portland is more of a mini-Boston than Providence is, by a good bit.
I don't know. In Providence you also have the State Capital at the top of the hill, overlooking downtown from a park. You have College Hill which feels like a piece of Cambridge plopped down. You have a dense downtown with a few semi-tall buildings, but overall disappointing skyline. Still, it provides enough old/"new" juxtapositions which is something Boston is known for. You have Federal Hill as a North End of sorts.

Both Providence and Portland share the confusing street layouts. Both have a strong presence of brick, and dense residential areas surrounding downtown. Both have the hilly topography. Portland has the coastline while Providence has the river.

I mean, I can see Portland as very similar, but at the end of the day the complete lack of height means it is not fooling me as a Boston stand-in the way that Providence might. (of course, I know all the tall buildings in Providence AND Boston, but a casual observer could be fooled)

Even today, Portland is stuck on constructing 6 story buildings while Providence at least throws around the ideas of adding additional height. If I'm being nice, since I love Portland, I'll say that Portland is a Baby Baby Boston.
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  #104  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Not sure why you keep bringing up the "wealth belt" as if that were of any particular relevance. Unlike some cities where you have a favoured quarter and everything else is bombed out, Toronto's north end isn't any more notable than the east or west ends.
Toronto's wealth is along Yonge. There's far more wealth within a mile or so of Yonge than anywhere to the east or west. Places like Rosedale, Forest Hill.

I'm using the Yonge corridor because I'm comparing apples-apples; i.e. the most desirable inner city geographies in the respective cities.
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It's actually to the west that's the most urban, dense, culturally relevant, heavily visited, etc.
I don't understand the point. No one in Chicago would call Lincoln Park the most "urban, dense, culturally relevant, heavily visited" either. Rich neighborhoods tend to be kinda boring.

But if you wanna compare, say, Queen West to Wicker Park, I think you'll also see differences in street level form. The overall point is that Toronto and Chicago don't look very similar from the ground.
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  #105  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 1:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DZH22 View Post
I don't know. In Providence you also have the State Capital at the top of the hill, overlooking downtown from a park. You have College Hill which feels like a piece of Cambridge plopped down. You have a dense downtown with a few semi-tall buildings, but overall disappointing skyline. Still, it provides enough old/"new" juxtapositions which is something Boston is known for. You have Federal Hill as a North End of sorts.

Both Providence and Portland share the confusing street layouts. Both have a strong presence of brick, and dense residential areas surrounding downtown. Both have the hilly topography. Portland has the coastline while Providence has the river.

I mean, I can see Portland as very similar, but at the end of the day the complete lack of height means it is not fooling me as a Boston stand-in the way that Providence might. (of course, I know all the tall buildings in Providence AND Boston, but a casual observer could be fooled)

Even today, Portland is stuck on constructing 6 story buildings while Providence at least throws around the ideas of adding additional height. If I'm being nice, since I love Portland, I'll say that Portland is a Baby Baby Boston.
I don’t disagree with any of this honestly, if you’re talking about Downcity in particular. Stretches of Weybosset and Westminster could be a bunch of places in the Financial District or Fort Point.

But man, Old Port is just so close in atmosphere to Beacon Hill and the North End, nothing in Providence comes close. The cobble stone streets, dense brick rows, gaslit lamps...

Do a Street View of Wharf Street, Exchange Street, and Fore Street. This area is more Boston than anything in Providence to me.
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  #106  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 1:43 PM
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Billings---Bismarck
Casper---Cheyenne
Boise---Spokane
Minneapolis/St.Paul---Dallas/Ft. Worth
Kansas City---St. Louis
Wichita---Omaha
Fargo---Sioux Falls

the only thing Spokane and Boise have in common is population, really. they have a completely different vibe. Spokane is older, grittier/more industrial, and more dense downtown.

Spokane and Tacoma are more similar vibe-wise, especially walking around the CBDs.
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  #107  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 1:45 PM
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Never understood the philly to New York comparison
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  #108  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 2:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Yonge is the only major commercial street in the favored quarter. So yes, obviously it's a typical commercial street. I have no idea what you mean by "many Yonge streets"; the wealth belt has one uber-dominant corridor.


In a discussion of Toronto street level feel, a Toronto aerial would be about as helpful as an aerial of the Moon.
No, an aerial would be evidence Younge street corridor stands out in Toronto, and not some typical corridor in the city. It's not rocket science. Your block long google images present a very small glimpse .
If it's the only major corridor, you shoud've said so from the begining. Your original statement makes it seem like there's many urban corridors like Younge. What do you not understand about the word, "typical?"
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  #109  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 2:08 PM
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Agree with Toronto/Melbourne twinning. Lot of similarities.

Commonwealth cities with same mix of architecture(Victorian, prewar, big glass condos). Prominent streetcar networks. Sprawly burbs. Similar ethnic compositions.
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  #110  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 2:34 PM
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Originally Posted by DZH22 View Post
I don't know. In Providence you also have the State Capital at the top of the hill, overlooking downtown from a park. You have College Hill which feels like a piece of Cambridge plopped down. You have a dense downtown with a few semi-tall buildings, but overall disappointing skyline. Still, it provides enough old/"new" juxtapositions which is something Boston is known for. You have Federal Hill as a North End of sorts.

Both Providence and Portland share the confusing street layouts. Both have a strong presence of brick, and dense residential areas surrounding downtown. Both have the hilly topography. Portland has the coastline while Providence has the river.

I mean, I can see Portland as very similar, but at the end of the day the complete lack of height means it is not fooling me as a Boston stand-in the way that Providence might. (of course, I know all the tall buildings in Providence AND Boston, but a casual observer could be fooled)

Even today, Portland is stuck on constructing 6 story buildings while Providence at least throws around the ideas of adding additional height. If I'm being nice, since I love Portland, I'll say that Portland is a Baby Baby Boston.
I got more of a Boston vibe in Portland than I did in Providence. Providence had more of a generic 'Boston area' aesthetic where as Portland channeled Boston itself.
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  #111  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 2:35 PM
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Of all the cities I've been to, Denver is the one that seemed the most similar to Minneapolis. The climate is different but that is about it. East Colfax in Denver is like south Minneapolis' Lake St and Lyndale Ave had a love child and it moved west. You could switch out parts of the two cities and nobody would notice.
Agreed. The vibe and demographics feel similar as well. Newer, isolated metros of similar size that dominate their large respective regions (mountain west/central Great Plains and upper Midwest + Dakotas). Both have healthy economies with highly educated white collar work forces, both are very outdoorsy (although in different ways), both are pretty white, and both are fairly flat. Minneapolis is greener, wetter, and colder; Denver has mountains nearby. Otherwise they’re very similar.

Also, having just briefly visited Charleston, it felt like New Orleans and Boston had a baby.
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  #112  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 2:38 PM
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Key West and Provincetown (MA) had a similar look and feel.
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  #113  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 3:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Toronto's wealth is along Yonge. There's far more wealth within a mile or so of Yonge than anywhere to the east or west. Places like Rosedale, Forest Hill.

I'm using the Yonge corridor because I'm comparing apples-apples; i.e. the most desirable inner city geographies in the respective cities.


I don't understand the point. No one in Chicago would call Lincoln Park the most "urban, dense, culturally relevant, heavily visited" either. Rich neighborhoods tend to be kinda boring.

But if you wanna compare, say, Queen West to Wicker Park, I think you'll also see differences in street level form. The overall point is that Toronto and Chicago don't look very similar from the ground.
Um, yea a lot of Chicagoans of a certain demographic would categorize Lincoln Park that way. It's certainly urban and dense and has it's share of nightlife, including one of the city's top restaurants (Alinea)

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9181...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9236...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9264...7i16384!8i8192

that's why your idea of "favored quarters" makes no sense. Is Lincoln Park the "favored quarter"? By whom?
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  #114  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 3:21 PM
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Um, yea a lot of Chicagoans of a certain demographic would categorize Lincoln Park that way. It's certainly urban and dense and has it's share of nightlife, including one of the city's top restaurants (Alinea)
No one who knows Chicago would characterize Lincoln Park as the archetypal most "urban, dense, culturally relevant, heavily visited" core neighborhoods. It's relatively affluent, mature and quiet (as core neighborhoods go), just like the Yonge corridor.

Also, what does Alinea have to do with anything? Trendy hipster neighborhoods are known for $800 a person meals? Corporate account restaurants signify high density? Alinea is for rich older folks.
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  #115  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 3:32 PM
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No one who knows Chicago would characterize Lincoln Park as the archetypal most "urban, dense, culturally relevant, heavily visited" core neighborhoods. It's relatively affluent, mature and quiet (as core neighborhoods go), just like the Yonge corridor.
lol ok bud. You would know as a... Brooklynite by way of Mexico City? Just make sure to tell that to the throngs of 20-somethings filling the bars along Lincoln, Clark, and Halsted. They SHOULD be hanging out in... the base of the Sears Tower I guess? Not sure where the preeminent Chicago urban scholar thinks is more urban and dense than Lincoln Park in Chicago but I assume you're picturing the Loop.

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Also, what does Alinea have to do with anything? Trendy hipster neighborhoods are known for $800 a person meals? Corporate account restaurants signify high density? Alinea is for rich older folks.
Alinea is certainly culturally relevant.
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  #116  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 3:49 PM
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Not sure where the preeminent Chicago urban scholar thinks is more urban and dense than Lincoln Park in Chicago but I assume you're picturing the Loop.
Lakeview is much denser (really all the northern lakefront neighborhoods are denser than LP), everywhere in the core is more urban and heavily visited, and areas like West Randolph and Wicker Park are more culturally relevant (as least in the context of this thread).

Where else in Chicago would be a better analogue to the Yonge corridor, north of downtown (i.e. wealthy, established, WASPy core residential)? If you don't like LP as a comparison, offer a better example. Maybe Gold Coast, but to me that's more or less downtown.
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  #117  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 3:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Lakeview is much denser (really all the northern lakefront neighborhoods are denser than LP), everywhere in the core is more urban and heavily visited, and areas like West Randolph and Wicker Park are more culturally relevant (as least in the context of this thread).

Where else in Chicago would be a better analogue to the Yonge corridor, north of downtown (i.e. wealthy, established, WASPy core residential)? If you don't like LP as a comparison, offer a better example. Maybe Gold Coast, but to me that's more or less downtown.
Gotta agree with Crawford here.

Perhaps Lincoln Park was the "in" neighborhood decades ago, but it long ago lost that and has slowly settled into becoming a wealthy enclave full of mansions, high end shops, boutiques, restaurants, etc.

Whatever density there used to be has declined as 2/3/6 flats have been demo'd and replaced by SFHs. The NIMBYism is legendary, and it only grows worse.

Are there some bars? Sure, but I can't imagine that LP is anything but WAY past its heyday as a center of nightlife. And other than some restaurants and a few major theatres (Steppenwolf) I just don't think LP is much of a destination for out of towners.

The nightlife is further north in Lakeview, and much of it appears to have migrated back downtown to River North and the West Loop/Randolph St area.

The Weed St nightclub district that I used to hang out in also appears to be gone, or at least a shadow of its former self. Wasn't that also technically in LP?
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  #118  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 3:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DZH22 View Post
I don't know. In Providence you also have the State Capital at the top of the hill, overlooking downtown from a park. You have College Hill which feels like a piece of Cambridge plopped down. You have a dense downtown with a few semi-tall buildings, but overall disappointing skyline. Still, it provides enough old/"new" juxtapositions which is something Boston is known for. You have Federal Hill as a North End of sorts.

Both Providence and Portland share the confusing street layouts. Both have a strong presence of brick, and dense residential areas surrounding downtown. Both have the hilly topography. Portland has the coastline while Providence has the river.

I mean, I can see Portland as very similar, but at the end of the day the complete lack of height means it is not fooling me as a Boston stand-in the way that Providence might. (of course, I know all the tall buildings in Providence AND Boston, but a casual observer could be fooled)

Even today, Portland is stuck on constructing 6 story buildings while Providence at least throws around the ideas of adding additional height. If I'm being nice, since I love Portland, I'll say that Portland is a Baby Baby Boston.
I think Portland, Maine, and Burlington are similar, although Portland is about 2 - 3 times the size of Burlington.
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  #119  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 4:46 PM
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Lakeview is much denser (really all the northern lakefront neighborhoods are denser than LP)
By what metric? I'd be interested to see your stats. This source shows Lincoln Park as the same (very high/highest) as the rest of the northern lakefront neighborhoods: https://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/v...4eb7b70af99ed4

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Where else in Chicago would be a better analogue to the Yonge corridor, north of downtown (i.e. wealthy, established, WASPy core residential)? If you don't like LP as a comparison, offer a better example. Maybe Gold Coast, but to me that's more or less downtown.
I don't mind the comparison, I simply said it was wrong to not consider Lincoln Park dense, urban, heavily visited or culturally relevant.

We've already seen it is dense and urban. It's also heavily visited; although it isn't an exact science, the City of Chicago released ride hailing data for all community areas (number of drop offs/pick ups for Uber, Lyft, Via, etc.) Lincoln Park was #7 in drop offs--out of 77 total community areas.

https://data.cityofchicago.org/d/m6d.../visualization

As for cultural relevance, agian that depends on who you ask. Are you simply going off of number of restaurant reservations? Number of establishments that serve alcohol? Total number of theater seats? Total number of museums? What's the measure? It's got the city zoo, one of the largest urban university campuses in the country, a major theater, some of the worlds top dining, shopping, etc.

I don't live in Lincoln Park and probably never would--I don't fit the demographic that looks for things like college bars or women's boutiques... plus I couldn't afford it if I DID want to... But it seems strange to call Lincoln Park anything BUT urban, dense, culturally relevant, and heavily visited.

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Gotta agree with Crawford here.

Perhaps Lincoln Park was the "in" neighborhood decades ago, but it long ago lost that and has slowly settled into becoming a wealthy enclave full of mansions, high end shops, boutiques, restaurants, etc.

Whatever density there used to be has declined as 2/3/6 flats have been demo'd and replaced by SFHs. The NIMBYism is legendary, and it only grows worse.

Are there some bars? Sure, but I can't imagine that LP is anything but WAY past its heyday as a center of nightlife. And other than some restaurants and a few major theatres (Steppenwolf) I just don't think LP is much of a destination for out of towners.

The nightlife is further north in Lakeview, and much of it appears to have migrated back downtown to River North and the West Loop/Randolph St area.

The Weed St nightclub district that I used to hang out in also appears to be gone, or at least a shadow of its former self. Wasn't that also technically in LP?
I would not call Lincoln Park THE in neighborhood by any means, but I don't think any neighborhood outside of Gold Coast/Loop is denser or more urban with the same blocks-long, unbroken street walls with little to no retail vacancy. It may not be the cultural hub of the city (outside of the Big 10 college crowd I'm not sure it ever was) but there aren't many neighborhoods that match its accessibility and built environment, and even few that exceed it. I would imagine out of towners visit Lincoln Park (DePaul Campus, the Zoo, middle ground between Wrigley and downtown hotels) much more often than they do, say, Logan Square, which is a much more "culturally relevant" at this point to many Chicagoans.
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  #120  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2019, 5:00 PM
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I would not call Lincoln Park THE in neighborhood by any means, but I don't think any neighborhood outside of Gold Coast/Loop is denser or more urban with the same blocks-long, unbroken street walls with little to no retail vacancy.
It may not be the cultural hub of the city (outside of the Big 10 college crowd I'm not sure it ever was) but there aren't many neighborhoods that match its accessibility and built environment, and even few that exceed it. I would imagine out of towners visit Lincoln Park (DePaul Campus, the Zoo, middle ground between Wrigley and downtown hotels) much more often than they do, say, Logan Square, which is a much more "culturally relevant" at this point to many Chicagoans.
If you are asking which non-downtown area neighborhood gets the most out of town visitors, I cannot hold up any stats to refute you. However, I would guess that Hyde Park and E. Lakeview could give Lincoln Park a run for its money. Lakeview has Wrigley and Wrigleyville, and HP has U of C and the MSI and other smaller institutions. You've also got Rogers Park/West Ridge for Loyola and South Asian shopping and Chinatown for...well, being Chinatown, and UIC for, well...being UIC. We can go on, but ultimately, it doesn't matter because I still don't view most of these neighborhoods as major "destinations"; most of of towners tend to go downtown.
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