West Village Concept Plan

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by mersar

I believe Greyhound has moved a lot of their offices out of that building. There was a 'for lease' sign up on the one wall a while ago indicating there was 15,000 square feet available. But the point is still valid, replacing the bus terminal in the core (pretty likely a major requirement to be central for the main terminal) could be costly.

I would imagine something integrated into the base of a building on their current site, an entrance off west bound bow trail and an exit on to east bound bow trail and with the main portion of the square footage required wrapped around behind other retail units (sort of a T shape, with the bus access across the top of the T and pedestrian access at the base of the T), as well I would guess that they could put a new freight facility in either the Manchester or Highfield industrial areas to deal with the dedicated freight that moves out of the current terminal, and then any freight that needs to go on a bus simply gets shuttled up to the terminal

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by mr.steevo

Hi,

I scanned through the West Village ARP Draft. It seems like a pretty well thought out proposal that makes a lot of sense. I could see this plan leap ahead of the East Village development if the powers that be aren't careful.

Points that stood out for me:

Pumphouse Precinct -

Building heights range from 4 to 10 storeys with approximately 14 storey buildings permitted in locations signifying entranceways to important destinations.

Stand-alone retail buildings should not be permitted.

Promenade Precinct -

Large scale retail/commercial establishments (e.g. larger than 1,900 square metres) should be discouraged except for uses such as supermarkets, pharmacies and other similar uses which provide various daily goods and services for residents.

Commercial uses that do not generate significant pedestrian activity, such as financial institutions, may also locate on the ground floor provided store frontages do not exceed 12 metres. The remainder of the commercial area should locate on the second floor, basement or wrapped behind adjacent retail units.

General Policies -

The area between the maximum building setback and the property line should be occupied by building entryways, outdoor seating areas for
restaurants, seasonal display, bicycle parking, street furniture, public art and residential front porches or yards

Individual storefronts that are greater than 30 metres in width should provide multiple entrances at the street level, which may include incorporating separate individual retail units that have entrances oriented to the street. -

Of course there is the eco friendly lip service that may or may not follow through.

It seems that someone has put thought into what "works" and disapproves of what doesn't work in cities. We have all walked along a city block that is nothing but a wall of emptiness because one large business occupies the entire block. This draft looks like it has been influence by people who know design and understand how painful some features of all cities can be to live in.

If nothing else I am encouraged.

s.

I'm really looking forward to this and the east village going ahead, my fiance and myself will be looking into buying a place in the next couple of years and I really hope we can find something in one of these areas

[YYCguys]

I had heard that there was a possiblity that the Greyhound passenger terminal could be integrated into Sunalta Station, which would make perfect sense.

Where did the Greyhound head office move to?

[mr.steevo]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

I'm really looking forward to this and the east village going ahead, my fiance and myself will be looking into buying a place in the next couple of years and I really hope we can find something in one of these areas

Hi,

My understanding of the West Village draft plan is for this project to have a 15-20 year timeline before occupation.

As for the current Greyhound station; I wonder if a new terminal could be built somewhere around 10 ave downtown. There seem to be a lot of empty lots and no sidewalks along that avenue.

s.

[outoftheice]

Another thing I found in the West Village ARP was this general policy for built form.

Modulating building faces in width, height and finishing materials to visually break up large building walls. The inclusion of smaller commercial retail units in the building facades of large retail tenants is encouraged

I don't know if this policy appears in other ARPs that we've seen in the past. If it does, I guess it's going to be just as hit and miss as it's been before. If it actually is something new, hopefully it will prevent the development of the terrible podiums that we've seen on Sasso/Vetro, Nuera, etc.. that just create a huge, rather uniform, street wall.

ARP Link: http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/...illage_arp.pdf

[fusili]

Originally Posted by outoftheice

. If it actually is something new, hopefully it will prevent the development of the terrible podiums that we've seen on Sasso/Vetro, Nuera, etc.. that just create a huge, rather uniform, street wall.

I don't have a problem with the Sasso/Vetro podium. Well, the material sucks, and the plinth does as well (the raised steps) but Shoppers is awesome. I don't understand why people have this thing against big stores in urban areas. I can buy cheap toiletries there (well, London Drugs is better, but the point stands). Who cares if the street wall is uniform? It isn't ugly, and it is the only way to get a Shoppers or the like. The same will be the case with Sunterra- large uniform streetwall, but it's a Sunterra, and that is awesome. I just have a problem if the facade is completely blank.

[outoftheice]

Originally Posted by fusili

I don't understand why people have this thing against big stores in urban areas.... .....Who cares if the street wall is uniform? It isn't ugly, and it is the only way to get a Shoppers or the like.

I don't have any issue with big stores in urban areas. I agree that they provide people with something they want. However I don't think that is the only way to get a Shoppers in the area. Just because Shoppers requires a large, one story, floor plan, doesn't mean that the podium should only offer a large, one story, floor plan. There's no reason that part of the podium can't be two or three stories high with Shoppers on the first floor and something else occupying the other 2 floors. It could be a health club, a restaurant, or even just 'town-house' style homes that start on the second floor instead of the first. To accomodate this heightened section of the podium, there's no reason that the Shopper's floor plan couldn't be set back into the centre of the building for a few metres. This would allow for street-level access to the second and third level units above and still maintain a continuous single level floor-plan for Shopper's.

I guess for me, it's about engaging the pedestrian in an urban area. If you can get somebody to pause and reflect half-way down the block because something about the building's podium has changed (either a different retailer, a change from one story to three, a prominent lobby, something) it can be considered a success. With podiums like Sasso/Vetro, as soon as you step foot on the block, it is obvious that what you will get for the rest of your walk along the block is a one story Shopper's. There's no reason to pay attention to your surroundings, you can just zone right out until you reach the next block. To me, this is the opposite of the kind of vibrancy the City needs to create in an area like the West Village. The most popular pedestrian spots in Calgary are Stephen Ave, Kensington and 17th Ave. The one thing they all have in common is a pedestrian experience that is always engaging due to the ever-changing streetscape. Whether or not there's a giant Wal-mart (as an extreme example) hidden behind that changing streetscape makes no difference to me. Just keep things interesting for people and they will be drawn to the area to either live, work or play.

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by fusili

I don't have a problem with the Sasso/Vetro podium. Well, the material sucks, and the plinth does as well (the raised steps) but Shoppers is awesome. I don't understand why people have this thing against big stores in urban areas. I can buy cheap toiletries there (well, London Drugs is better, but the point stands). Who cares if the street wall is uniform? It isn't ugly, and it is the only way to get a Shoppers or the like. The same will be the case with Sunterra- large uniform streetwall, but it's a Sunterra, and that is awesome. I just have a problem if the facade is completely blank.

My issue with that Shopper is that it only has one entrance.

[jeffwhit]

Greyhound can put its terminal underground. I'd prefer to see the city build a bus terminal that served Greyhound, Red Arrow and any regional commuter services. No need to spread that stuff all over DT.

[bob1954]

10-20 year timespan.... the plan will change 5 times over that period.

[YYCguys]

^^Colocating all the bus services would be a great idea. I saw it in Toronto's bus terminal as well!

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by fusili

I don't have a problem with the Sasso/Vetro podium. Well, the material sucks, and the plinth does as well (the raised steps) but Shoppers is awesome. I don't understand why people have this thing against big stores in urban areas. I can buy cheap toiletries there (well, London Drugs is better, but the point stands). Who cares if the street wall is uniform? It isn't ugly, and it is the only way to get a Shoppers or the like. The same will be the case with Sunterra- large uniform streetwall, but it's a Sunterra, and that is awesome. I just have a problem if the facade is completely blank.

Also, shoppers drug mart have been known to suddenly pull out and leaves a very large space entirely vacant. I dont have a probelm with the store but maybe the fact that the corporation has gotten too big and they are only centered on profits.

[kw5150]

Are there any updates with the west village? So much opportunity there. I would like to see some of those high speed roads toned down into more pedestrain friendly streetscapes like vancouver has done.

[mersar]

Originally Posted by kw5150

Are there any updates with the west village? So much opportunity there. I would like to see some of those high speed roads toned down into more pedestrain friendly streetscapes like vancouver has done.

This is a long range plan. There will be plenty of very slow moving planning work done, but don't expect to see anything actually changing in that area for 15-20 years, if the plan survives that long.

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by mersar

This is a long range plan. There will be plenty of very slow moving planning work done, but don't expect to see anything actually changing in that area for 15-20 years, if the plan survives that long.

The progress I was referring to was the design work. I want to see some charettes and schematic design ideas in the next few years! I hope there is a very well-balanced approach to the whole design. I would hate to see 30 storey condos with 4 lane one-way roads going through. Some street scaping is needed. I hope they can see the potential to transform the interchanges and fast flowing streets into something usable by all. What a dead zone that whole area is.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by mersar

This is a long range plan. There will be plenty of very slow moving planning work done, but don't expect to see anything actually changing in that area for 15-20 years, if the plan survives that long.

Like the East Village, once it is actually developed it will undergo a more detailed master plan process. The existing plan will likely merely set the framework.

I'd expect that it will be years before this development gets going. And really, what's the rush. The East Village has two decades of build out, not to mention the Beltine and the rest of downtown before West Village really needs to get going. No need to canibalize the downtown residential market.

[mr.steevo]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Like the East Village, once it is actually developed it will undergo a more detailed master plan process. The existing plan will likely merely set the framework.

I'd expect that it will be years before this development gets going. And really, what's the rush. The East Village has two decades of build out, not to mention the Beltine and the rest of downtown before West Village really needs to get going. No need to canibalize the downtown residential market.

Hi,

Given the pace of the East Village development, I expect to be in a nursing home or dead before the West Village is completed.

s.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by mr.steevo

Hi,

Given the pace of the East Village development, I expect to be in a nursing home or dead before the West Village is completed.

s.

What you mean it has been 3 whole years already? I don't think the EV has even begun land sales yet, the infrastructure still needs to be finished.

[mr.steevo]

Hi,

I recall talks of an East Village shortly after the olympics ended.

20+ years later and look how far it has gotten.

s.

[Wooster]

The current EV effort is far different than previous false starts. It's well on its way now.