HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #901  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2011, 10:30 PM
San Frangelino's Avatar
San Frangelino San Frangelino is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberEric View Post
Being a great city has little to do with buildings on the waterfront.
Thanks for saying that CyberEric. I just went to Paris, which isn't lacking in high rises, but certainly isn't cramped with them. Its cramped with 8 story lowrise density. In fact the spots I loved the most, had no high rises to be seen. It's undoubtedly one of the worlds great cities.

Let's not forget that waterfront high rises are being planned into large scale building projects within San Francisco. Projects like the recently approved Treasure Island redevelopment, Candlestick/Hunters point, and the nearby Giants development. Wether they get built, I guess is another argument. Wether with or without them, San Francisco will become a more dynamic place is also arguable.
__________________
I ♥ Manhattanization

Last edited by San Frangelino; Jun 22, 2011 at 10:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #902  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2011, 3:39 AM
tommaso tommaso is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 396
Quote:
Originally Posted by San Frangelino View Post
Thanks for saying that CyberEric. I just went to Paris, which isn't lacking in high rises, but certainly isn't cramped with them. Its cramped with 8 story lowrise density. In fact the spots I loved the most, had no high rises to be seen. It's undoubtedly one of the worlds great cities.

Let's not forget that waterfront high rises are being planned into large scale building projects within San Francisco. Projects like the recently approved Treasure Island redevelopment, Candlestick/Hunters point, and the nearby Giants development. Wether they get built, I guess is another argument. Wether with or without them, San Francisco will become a more dynamic place is also arguable.
Paris is a great place and in no way are its zoning laws and residential stock to be confused with S.F.'s. Any time I see a six to eight story well designed mixed use residential development on Van Ness and in parts of SoMa, I immediately think of Paris because that is how the post-Hausmannian Paris was built. I like those types of developments, but clearly, they are far and few between in S.F. and far too many prime development plots of land in S.F. are immensely underutilized. Just take Market Street starting from Powell and stretching to Van Ness. We've been following the approved zoning laws that govern building rights along that corridor for well over 3 years now here on Skyscraperpage Forum. Certainly, it's been well documented here that the rights to build on prime real estate are there. Our politicians have done their part. Demand for commercial/residential space even beyond Powell and extending to the Castro on Market Street is undoubtedly there. No one is truly worried about some vagrants from the 'loin' bothering the office workers/residents in Mid-Market. If that were the case, Trinity wouldn't be under construction and the Federal Building wouldn't have been built. Demand is not the issue. Financing is. S.F. is always short on its housing stock and that's why the price to rent here is through the roof! People from the outside largely view S.F. as the only response to New York City west of New York in terms of lifestyle and quality of life and that includes cultural and economic diversity. Well, that being said, this is why my expectations are and will always be higher for S.F. than they will ever be for Chicago or L.A. I know that due to the small mindedness S.F. can often have when it comes to building on the scale of a Chicago or L.A., it becomes difficult to get massive projects approved. NIMBYS know who they are. I always enjoy entertaining these conversations with you guys here and I consistently appreciate the vast wealth of information that all of you here at skyscraperpage bring to the forefront. We are the best website to go to when it comes to these conversations and discussions. I'll get back to this discussion in a bit and I don't want to get off topic either because I know this is a Mission Bay specific thread so I'll keep it on topic.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #903  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2011, 3:51 AM
timbad timbad is offline
heavy user of walkability
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mission Bay, San Francisco
Posts: 3,150
speaking of tall and near the water...

it's been a while, so I thought I would give a quick update on a couple of things that don't have webcams...

first, they continue to plug away steadily on Madrone, and I sure can't tell yet where one phase would stop and a second start. here looking at the south side facing the Commons, from the southwest across Third:



here is the Third-St-facing (west) side:



here the north side (on a different day). it's hard to tell, but the first windows had been placed:



and the side facing the little alleyway separating it from older-but-little-brother Radiance:

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #904  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2011, 4:11 AM
timbad timbad is offline
heavy user of walkability
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mission Bay, San Francisco
Posts: 3,150
... and, things have definitely finally gotten to the point where they visibly change rapidly over in the northwest corner near the roundabout. daily progress is always evident now.

the inbound road from Seventh has been poured:



the outbound one is next:



I wish there was a better way to make this clearer from this (northwest) side, but in this shot is the roundabout itself coming into being. the roads from Seventh come in from the right in the photo, and splay when they get to the roundabout ring which has mostly been poured:



and here taken from the stub end of Owens coming up from the south:

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #905  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2011, 3:11 AM
tommaso tommaso is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 396
These recent photos are phenomenal! I have renewed hope that South of South Beach can turn into a vibrant mixed use neighborhood! The more dense housing with quality retail, the better.

Not every local worker wants to commute to work and the convenience of good housing coupled with some quality K-12 schools should improve that area. I can imagine at least one new K-12 school will need to be built to accommodate the new population. I haven't read exactly where that school will be built or when. Hospital shouldn't be an issue finding access to and entertainment isn't very far either, there's baseball adjacent to Mission Bay and most downtown nightlife is a few Muni stops away or a short cab ride.

My main hope is that Mission Bay ultimately becomes at least a Hayes Valley in terms of pedestrian activity level and diversity of retail/restaurants/nightlife. I'm not expecting a Mission district vibe in Mission Bay, but there's no reason why Mission Bay can't become an energetic or vibrant area as parts of SOMA are.

Who will decide to become the neighborhood's retail tenants? Well, the obvious ones are Albertsons, Whole Foods, CVS, maybe a BevMo, Starbucks, Bank of America, Chase. But, only very basic needs will be met with these retail tenants. The diversity of the retail will have to be addressed and I don't know that that will be possible because the rents will be high and most of the residents Mission Bay will be targeting will be families and middle-aged professionals.

I don't know that Mission Bay will be able to turn into the kind of culturally vibrant neighborhood that I would want to visit; visit its cafes, its bookstores, its bars, its restaurants, its parks, its everything. I'm not sure this neighborhood will have the opportunity to grow a bit of flavor. It would be good to have some flavor. 100% corporate and stale isn't the ideal place to live for everybody. I don't see any commercial spaces being built in Mission Bay that would offer enough space to house a movie theatre, multiple screens. That is necessary and would be a great addition to the neighborhood!

For those of you who wonder where my frustration comes from when I can no longer accept that S.F. develops real estate at such a snails pace and on such a small scale compared to other major cosmopolitan cities, I ask that you please follow this link which leads to a large scale mixed-use development in the Toronto area that has left me with no doubt that this is precisely how major cities should approach development.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=182236

And I absolutely don't doubt that Mission Bay could have been developed in this manner and especially on this scale. It is politics and a general small mindedness that the power brokers have when it comes to conceptualizing and defining land use laws for S.F. that enable this perpetuation of new neighborhoods that never resemble the mass, scale, density or diversity that a real city neighborhood with a real city feel should have.

Last edited by tommaso; Jun 26, 2011 at 3:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #906  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2011, 4:25 AM
WildCowboy WildCowboy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommaso View Post
Not every local worker wants to commute to work and the convenience of good housing coupled with some quality K-12 schools should improve that area. I can imagine at least one new K-12 school will need to be built to accommodate the new population. I haven't read exactly where that school will be built or when.
There is a 2.2-acre site at the northwest corner of UCSF's campus that has been set aside as a school site. Tentative plans lean toward a K-5 or K-8 school with a science focus drawing on UCSF's expertise. I believe the school district has until 2027 to commit to building the school.

Quote:
Who will decide to become the neighborhood's retail tenants? Well, the obvious ones are Albertsons, Whole Foods, CVS, maybe a BevMo, Starbucks, Bank of America, Chase. But, only very basic needs will be met with these retail tenants.
I'm not sure the retail space for another supermarket is in the plans...I imagine the Safeway at Fourth and King is intended as Mission Bay's supermarket. I could be wrong about that though.

Quote:
I don't see any commercial spaces being built in Mission Bay that would offer enough space to house a movie theatre, multiple screens. That is necessary and would be a great addition to the neighborhood!
No thanks on movie theaters. The majority of them in the area are just teenager hangouts that draw crime.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #907  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2011, 6:04 AM
timbad timbad is offline
heavy user of walkability
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mission Bay, San Francisco
Posts: 3,150
block 2

something is afoot... pile driving imminent on block 2?



and more concrete has gone in over in the NW corner - this is the outbound road and sidewalk:



Socketsite had a blurb on Madrone today:

http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2...d_pricing.html
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #908  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2011, 4:17 PM
WildCowboy WildCowboy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 527
^^^Woo hoo...go Block 2! For reference, this is a project by UDR along Channel Street between Third and Fourth. It consists of 315 rental units and about 8,000 sf of retail.

I guess Farallon is finally looking to sell of Block 40 to someone who will develop it. This is the odd-shaped block squeezed up along 280 between 16th and Mariposa along the future Owens Street extension. It will be right across the street from UCSF's hospital parking garage and lots, and will eventually be across the street from hospital functions once UCSF builds out the second phase of the hospital in a couple of decades.

650,000 square feet of space allowable on the site, and it's basically the last major biotech site available in the area. Speculation is that Alexandria may be interested after having sold off almost all of its vacant land in the area to Salesforce.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #909  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2011, 4:42 AM
timbad timbad is offline
heavy user of walkability
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mission Bay, San Francisco
Posts: 3,150
pile driving no longer imminent...

... pile driving in progress!



they have the eastern half of block 2 fenced off and as of this evening had stuck two long beams in the ground over on the Third St edge (here looking south):



lot C just got a little smaller!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #910  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2011, 2:49 PM
WildCowboy WildCowboy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 527
^^^Very nice. Looks to just be indicator piles for now, but hopefully they'll quickly move forward on fabricating the full set based on the results of the tests, and we'll be up and going!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #911  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2011, 7:29 PM
Potrero Potrero is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 21
Daggett Place

At the edge of Mission Bay on 16th Street, Daggett Place seems to finally be on the move. I can't wait until something starts there.

They are going in front of the SF planning commission in July. Not sure how long before construction can start after that.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #912  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2011, 2:36 PM
WildCowboy WildCowboy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 527
^^^Very nice to see this still moving forward. It'll make a huge difference in the initial impression of Mission Bay people get as they come in on the heavily-traveled 16th Street access.

Now, if only they didn't have to see the back end of 1700 Owens as the first thing after crossing the tracks.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #913  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2011, 4:33 PM
CyberEric CyberEric is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 639
Looks like a very nice project. The design is interesting without being caustic.

Thanks for posting. Do we think this deserves its own thread?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #914  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2011, 10:24 PM
Potrero Potrero is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberEric View Post
Looks like a very nice project. The design is interesting without being caustic.

Thanks for posting. Do we think this deserves its own thread?
Not sure what the rules are about threads but I for my convenience I would love to keep it all in one thread so I don't have to check too many of them . Is there a Potrero/Showplace Square thread around?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #915  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2011, 11:35 PM
WildCowboy WildCowboy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 527
I don't think there's a Potero/Showplace thread anywhere.

FWIW, I like having neighboring stuff like Daggett Place and Pier 70 here in the Mission Bay thread, but I recognize that that's not strictly kosher.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #916  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2011, 11:21 PM
CyberEric CyberEric is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 639
I see your point about it being convenient, I like that too. But what about new people looking for threads on Petrero/Showplace projects? Aren't they going to be at a disadvantage?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #917  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2011, 4:52 AM
WildCowboy WildCowboy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberEric View Post
I see your point about it being convenient, I like that too. But what about new people looking for threads on Petrero/Showplace projects? Aren't they going to be at a disadvantage?
That's the problem. Of course, are there that many projects in Potrero and Showplace that people are really looking for? If there are, they're not being discussed in these forums as far as I know. So if Daggett is the only thing going on in that area and it's so close to MB, I prefer to see it lumped in.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #918  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2011, 4:05 PM
viewguysf's Avatar
viewguysf viewguysf is offline
Surrounded by Nature
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Walnut Creek, California
Posts: 2,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildCowboy View Post
That's the problem. Of course, are there that many projects in Potrero and Showplace that people are really looking for? If there are, they're not being discussed in these forums as far as I know. So if Daggett is the only thing going on in that area and it's so close to MB, I prefer to see it lumped in.
I also prefer that.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #919  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2011, 8:21 PM
peanut gallery's Avatar
peanut gallery peanut gallery is offline
Only Mostly Dead
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marin
Posts: 5,234
Same here. I don't think there's enough happening in the surrounding neighborhoods for each to have its own thread. I think it's fine to keep them here.

timbad - thanks again for all the fantastic updates. I was asking around on SocketSite about the phasing of Madrone and someone told me they will start by only selling 200 units in the south and west side of the building. So I'm guessing they will complete the shell in one fell swoop, but complete interiors as they decide to bring more units online.
__________________
My other car is a Dakota Creek Advanced Multihull Design.

Tiburon Miami 1 Miami 2 Ye Olde San Francisco SF: Canyons, waterfront... SF: South FiDi SF: South Park
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #920  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2011, 8:49 PM
Potrero Potrero is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 21
Madrone update

I ran on Terry Francois yesterday and the windows are now going up on the Madrone. First floor almost done.

The building will be looking much more complete in a few weeks.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:44 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.