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  #581  
Old Posted May 8, 2018, 4:50 PM
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The tax argument comes up every time there's a big free agent coming to the market in the NHL and it's been proven to not have as big an effect as people think. Athletes are subject to the "jock tax" which charges them based on the jurisdiction they play each individual game in. Meaning the raptors pay half their tax in Canada, ~10% in California, maybe 5% in New York, etc. Wouldnt be surprised if the tax burden between someone on the raptors is pretty similar to one playing for the Warriors. Now when you're talking $30 million contracts, it still adds up, but for a lot of these guys winning probably takes priority over a few extra million.
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  #582  
Old Posted May 8, 2018, 4:59 PM
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Didn't the Raptors do that not too long ago?

I don't really follow the team but, I have seen the stats and watched parts of games posted at the local watering hole. There's always room to make improvements but, the simply fact is they ran into a superstar. Shappy said it best. Just wait until LeBron retires.
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  #583  
Old Posted May 8, 2018, 5:14 PM
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Regarding the taxes. I found the calculation someone did for stamkos a couple years ago comparing Toronto to Tampa and it's actually still a $2 million gap. So multiply that by 3 for a max nba contract and you're talking at least $6 mil which actually is substantial.
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  #584  
Old Posted May 8, 2018, 10:05 PM
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While Toronto has come a long ways from the Antonio "it smells different up there" Davis days and are now able to sing and keep impact NBA players, I doubt they will ever be able to sign the top-tier superstars in free agency...unless they are Euros - even then unlikely - or homegrown Canadian players. The likes of Carroll, who was disappointing in his tenure, are probably the best it's going to get in free agent signings of US players.

I know a few years ago, Raptor fans were holding out hopes for Wiggins signing in Toronto after his contract with the Timberwolves is up (I think his contract extension runs through 2023), but he has been of a disappointment up to this point and it appears he will not even be as good of a player as Derozan unless his plays improves significantly.

Overall, the season has to be considered a disappointment despite considering the 4-game sweep by Cleveland. Even Indy took the Cavs to 7 games in the first round so what does that say about the Raptors?

Based on what I have been reading coaching played a big role in the sweep as the matchups were questionable and Casey and his assistants refused to double-team Lebron. I like Casey but he needs to be gone. Back-to-back sweeps by Cleveland is unacceptable.

The players also need to held accountable. Ibaka has been a major disappointment once again pulling a disappearing act in the playoffs. Guys like Lowry (who is older and in likely decline), DeRozan and Jonas are what they are - very good to lower-level superstars who are unlikely to carry the team to the finals....looking at past drafts, the Raptors missed some golden opportunities to draft bigger impact players.

I think we will see a major change or two but not a major blowup of the team...maybe Usai somehow move one of the big-3 contracts and brings in an impact player who can improve the team results in the playoffs. Regardless of what happens I prefer to see a Raptor team that makes the playoffs as a higher seed than one that was a perennial non-playoff team/lower seed for almost its entire existence.
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  #585  
Old Posted May 8, 2018, 11:27 PM
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How about the Raps make a play for RJ Barrett when bthe time comes. He's from Toronto and i have a feeling this kid is going to come through the way other highly touted Canadians have not. A guy like that would draw the whole country towards the Raptors.
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  #586  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 12:48 AM
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This last series was utterly humiliating, but I agree that I'd rather have a team that makes the playoffs as a high seed every year than go back to the Bargnani days. During game 4, Jack Armstrong made the point that Atlanta felt their group wasn't gonna get them anywhere, so they blew it up and now they're terrible. I'd prefer a slow gradual attempt at being a good team than starting from scratch.

Raptors' bench is good. No one to build a team around, but enough young talent that can support some future superstar, since you don't win championships without them. I trust Ujiri to take calculated decisions around all of this and work the process, rather than give up and hope to win the draft lottery.
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  #587  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 1:07 AM
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I echo those sentiments. I want to ride this wave for a couple more years. Win a bunch of games in front of sold out crowds even if it means I can no longer buy cheap tickets for the family to go (try to attend all sports). At least Jays and Argos are cheap. And TFC can be during midweek Canadian Championship.

It feels good to have a successful team even if you know deep down you're not winning a championship. And ya, like others said, we were so bad for so long I don't wanna go back there anytime soon. But by all means, after a couple more years, please blow it up. Don't want to tread water for too long in the NBA. Like Colin Cowherd says, being just a playoff team in the NBA is like being in quick sand. Either be really good or really bad.

Last edited by megadude; May 11, 2018 at 3:59 PM.
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  #588  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 1:14 AM
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Love Casey as a coach. But ya, time to go. Need a different voice. And hope they can effect change in the mindset of our guys come playoff time.

Pistons fired Rick Carlisle after topping the East, but bowing out in the SF. They got Larry Brown and won the NBA title right away. Of course LB is a legend. Don't think we're going to get someone of his caliber.

Also, Paul Westhead won 54 games with the run and gun Lakers but lost in the 1st round. Was replaced by Pat Riley and won 57 games and the championship.

Sonics fired Nate McMillan after winning 52 games. Next season, still with Ray Allen, they won 35 games. So these kind of things can easily backfire.


Anyway, ESPN picked Raps to finish 6th in the East. Finishing 1st was an accomplishment. Though with an asterisk. Pretty sure Celts would have finished 1st of Hayward didn't go down 5 minutes into the season.
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  #589  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 2:19 PM
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Co-worker just mentioned that Stack could work.

He was an asst. for the Raps three years ago. Then won the D League championship with the junior team. Then took them back to the final this past season despite losing so much of the previous roster.

He's not that far removed from being a player. He might have the right mentality and personality to get the guys going when playoff time comes around. It could rub off on them.

Blatt (or more accurately, Lebron) got the Cavs to the finals. Then CLE fired Blatt and elevated former recent player Lue to HC and they (or more accurately, Lebron) won the championship.

It could work. Stack has the desire too. Looks like he's going all in post playing career.

Quote:
In 2017, Stackhouse completed the Harvard Business School executive education program on the Business of Entertainment, Media, and Sports.
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  #590  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 3:37 PM
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Raptors fire Dwayne Casey this morning
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  #591  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 3:41 PM
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Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot View Post
Raptors fire Dwayne Casey this morning
Wow, do you guys feel that was a good move? Maybe he's the guy hung up on the 2 existing all stars? Or not good at building psychological strength in his players.
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  #592  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 3:45 PM
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Wow, do you guys feel that was a good move? Maybe he's the guy hung up on the 2 existing all stars? Or not good at building psychological strength in his players.
It needed to be done. Him and the core of JV/DD/KL have been constant for all the playoff losses, one of them had to go at some point.

It's interesting because he literally just won Coach of the Year a few weeks ago. This has to be a first right?
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  #593  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 3:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrs Sauga View Post
It needed to be done. Him and the core of JV/DD/KL have been constant for all the playoff losses, one of them had to go at some point.

It's interesting because he literally just won Coach of the Year a few weeks ago. This has to be a first right?
Exactly. Sometimes no matter how good a piece is, it's just not a good fit. I wonder if they'll get money for transferring him to another team mid-contract the way you can with player transfers.
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  #594  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 4:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mistercorporate View Post
Exactly. Sometimes no matter how good a piece is, it's just not a good fit. I wonder if they'll get money for transferring him to another team mid-contract the way you can with player transfers.
That's not how it works. He was fired....he'll be paid out either the remainder of his contract or a % in severance depending on however the contract was written up.
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  #595  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 4:10 PM
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Lots of precedent in firing successful NBA coaches. But immediately after winning coach of the year? Ya that sounds like a first.

In Raps history, Sam Mitchell was coach of the year. Not during the next season, but the one after, he was fired after an 8-9 start.

I'll guess that Jerry Stackhouse elevates to the top job.
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  #596  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 5:10 PM
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As good a job as Jerry Stackhouse has done with the Raptors 905, I would have a hard time believing that a Raptors team that views itself as a contender would go with an coach who is unproven at the NBA level.
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  #597  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 5:28 PM
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Masai did the same with George Karl who won coach of the year with the Nuggets.

I appreciate everything Casey has done as the best coach in Raptor's history, but something had to change. I don't think Stackhouse's lack of experience is what should hold them back. Two of the best coaches in the game right now in Steve Kerr and Brad Stevens (maybe add Luke Walton) are first time NBA coaches who bring a fresh perspective to the game. It's becoming a theme that to hit a home run with your coaching selection, you need to take a chance on someone young and hungry. That being said, Stackhouse is a development coach like Casey. He's good at motivating players and bringing them up to their potential, but that's not necessarily what the Raptors need. The core is developed, the bench depth is there. They need someone who can actually manage a team during the game when it matters most. someone who doesn't draw up the worst inbound plays I've ever seen or let Kevin Love go an a 9-0 run by putting C.J. Miles on him during the stretch. I'm not sure Stackhouse is a true tactician yet. Maybe he is and the risk would pay off, but it is a hefty risk.
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  #598  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 5:49 PM
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Good point about Karl. Forgot about that one. I remember now that it was due to negotiations, which is the only difference with Casey. Karl wanted an extension and the team wouldn't give it to him.

However, Masai didn't pull the trigger on that one. Had to look it up. Turns out he left for TO just before that happened.

In the case with Denver or Toronto now, neither team was or is considered a serious championship contender. So it's not as shocking as say when the Cowboys fired back to back defending SB winner Jimmy Johnson. That was a clash of two alpha egos.

Last edited by megadude; May 11, 2018 at 6:00 PM.
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  #599  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 5:57 PM
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I agree that Stack is a risk. And agree that sometimes you just take a risk and hope it works. After all it's just coaching a game. Not performing brain surgery.

Lue won the title with Cavs, but he has Lebron.

Big clubs in soccer are sometimes afraid to hire the unproven.

Arsenal got Wenger from Japan and it worked out for the first half of his tenure. Now they have the same decision to make. Go with the guy from the small league or a the big name guy with lots of trophies.

Real Madrid hired Zidane after a short time coaching the B club. He's a legend of the game no doubt, but he also head butted a guy in the WC final. So it was tough to gauge what kind of leader he would be. But he obviously matured and moulded himself into even more of a leader. Well in three years he won the league once and might possibly win his third straight champions league. Winning two in a row already hadn't happened since the changed to this format well over 20 years ago.

Soccer is full of successes and failures of new coaches. To me, after a team does its homework, it's basically a toss up whether a young coach pans out or not, in any sport.
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