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  #81  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2018, 5:54 PM
Sun Belt Sun Belt is offline
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Originally Posted by RCDC View Post
It's irrelevant whether "love" enters the argument. So kindly shove your agenda.
1] I don't have an agenda.
2] I'm realistic.

Yup, the suburbs aren't dying and
Yup, cars continue to be a popular choice for commuters even millennials.

*especially considering that transit organizations are reporting declines with a few exceptions -- which honestly -- they should be reporting huge increases considering the overall population continues to grow and urban growth continues to fill in.

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  #82  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2018, 8:34 PM
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Bikes have gotten more popular and more people probably work from home now. thats not very many people compared to how many people drive and go to somewhere to work though.
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  #83  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2018, 11:57 PM
BrownTown BrownTown is offline
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Originally Posted by RCDC View Post
Thanks for all those car ads. Traffic congestion doesn't exist.
Try taking NJT into Penn Station these days. You're more likely to run into delays than on most US highways. And that's NOW, just wait until one of the tunnels is declared unsafe and transitpacalypse hits. It's almost an inevitability now given the delays in getting the new tunnels built.
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  #84  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2018, 3:58 AM
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Try taking NJT into Penn Station these days. You're more likely to run into delays than on most US highways.
So that proves it doesn't work. Great logic there. Try this: Remove it entirely and see what that does to your highways.
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  #85  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2018, 11:20 AM
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I think the younger generations are just a little, but really just a little, more educated concerning global warming, air pollution, health concerns (sedentarism, etc), so some may try a little bit to improve their habits.

At the same time is understandable the habits of older generations because before global warming, health matters, etc weren't even a thing and people weren't educated about that, so they don't care or even know about those issues, so is understandable they have that kind of behaviour.

Without even mentioning the financial and political power of the automobile industry. Culturally it was a car dependent society, and the automobile industry reshape the cities, states, etc with their horrible superhighways, urban sprawl to worsen it up even more.

Now mobility independency could even be greater in general but people just don't have good alternatives right now to individual cars, even in "progressive" places like California and New York.

But certainly progress must be made.

Forbes: Bicycling Could Help Save The Planet, Says IPCC Climate Report


Image of Earth, taken by the GOES-7 weather satellite. Credit: Getty

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According to a globally-significant report published earlier today one of the ways of saving our world will be for more of us to cycle more frequently. If we want to prevent "rapid, far-reaching and unprecedented changes in all aspects of society" we have to keep the global temperature rise to under 1.5°C, the world's leading climate scientists agreed in the report. After a week of haggling between scientists and government officials at a meeting in South Korea, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) issued its hard-hitting report on the impact of global warming.

There are many mitigating tactics, what the report calls "pathways," we will all need to take if we want our planet to remain habitable, and among them are walking and cycling more. The stakes could not be higher. The risks, says the IPCC report, include "high levels of public unrest and political destabilization due to the increasing climatic pressures, resulting in some countries becoming dysfunctional."

(...)

Governments will have to change tack on the way they manage energy, land use, and urbanization, but individuals also have to change their lifestyles, eating less meat, drying clothing on washing lines rather than in tumble driers, and walking or cycling short distances rather than driving.

"This is not about remote science; it is about where we live and work," said Dr. Debra Roberts, the IPCC's other co-chair, adding that "we can choose the way we move in cities."

The IPCC's report classifies cycling and walking as "non-motorised transport" and says that "viability rests on linkages with public transport, cultural factors, climate and geography."

Among the 6,000 scientific references cited in the report are studies on car-restraint policies and bike-share's potential for getting people out of cars. An estimated 800 cities globally have operational bike-share schemes, says the report. It adds that London's congestion charging scheme helped pay for the roll-out of protected cycleways, and that in the charging zone, vehicle kilometers driven decreased by 15% in 2003, the first year it operated, and a further 6% a year later, while CO2 emissions from road traffic had reduced by 20% by 2008.

“One of the key messages that comes out very strongly from this report is that we are already seeing the consequences of 1°C of global warming through more extreme weather, rising sea levels and diminishing Arctic sea ice, among other changes,” said Panmao Zhai, another co-chair of IPCC Working Group.

Dr. Roberts concluded that the report "gives policymakers and practitioners the information they need to make decisions that tackle climate change while considering local context and people’s needs."
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  #86  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2018, 6:39 PM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is offline
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Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
Just double the price of gas and it will naturally happen.
Cheap credit + cheap gas enabled by fracking got us right back to the 90s-2000s SUV craze. Americans are buying irrational vehicles by the millions, not the small and much more affordable cars that anyone who actually knows what a dollar is worth drives. It's no coincidence that GM just announced the discontinuance of the Chevy Cruze, right after Ford canceled the Fiesta.

I have a 2012 Ford Focus with 138k miles. Only one problem with it (fried clutch) so far in the 7-year life of the car. No car was capable of getting to 100k without major repairs until recently.

But in stead of buying $20k cars, Americans are being fooled by 7-year loans into buying $38k cars.
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  #87  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2018, 6:57 PM
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For pure practical use you should be able to buy a very capable used car for $10k I guess. Anything over that is discretionary spending based on wanting more luxury or street cred. No problem with that if it's what people want to spend their discretionary cash on, but it's not an essential cost.
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  #88  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2018, 8:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
I have a 2012 Ford Focus with 138k miles. Only one problem with it (fried clutch) so far in the 7-year life of the car. No car was capable of getting to 100k without major repairs until recently.
I have a 2011 Focus with over 100k miles and no issues so far aside from routine maintenance. Before than I had a 2008 Focus which I stupidly went off the road at 50MPH and barrel rolled down a hill in ending up on its side against a utility pole. Side impact airbags deployed and I litterally walked away without a scratch. Sucks they won't be making any more because Americans all want $50,000 big pickups and SUVs instead.
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  #89  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2018, 9:37 PM
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The amount of $40,000+ full size trucks I see all over the place is staggering. They are essentially luxury vehicles at that price point even if it is an F-Series. It's like half the block owning a BMW or Cadillac.
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  #90  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2018, 9:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
For pure practical use you should be able to buy a very capable used car for $10k I guess. Anything over that is discretionary spending based on wanting more luxury or street cred. No problem with that if it's what people want to spend their discretionary cash on, but it's not an essential cost.
Yeah, a low-mileage (30k) Focus from 2015 or 2016 can be had for like $11k. They're great cars. The ABS is pretty incredible on my 2012...I have tried but can't get it to spin in the snow.

So while cars are out-of-style from the Big 3, the nerds are throwing (borrowed) money at Elon Musk for his vastly overpriced Model 3. So it's not hard for the Model 3 to beat sales figures of well-known cars since so much of the primary market has moved to crossovers and SUV's.

You can buy three new Chevy Cruzes or three new Ford Fiestas for the price of one Model 3.
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  #91  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2018, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
I wonder what % of millennial know how to drive manual. My first car was a manual, learned on it. A Volkswagen Jetta.

More folks should learn manual. It builds character.

Yet again, they can barely drive an automatic, so maybe its a bad idea.

Germany has some good drivers. Folks there understand traffic rules. Plus, driving school is a lot harder.

Here, they give anybody with a pulse a license.
I'm a millennial and I know how to because my first car was manual. My father kind of insisted that my sister and I know how to drive a stick.

Of my friends who learned to drive in the U.S., a few of us know how to drive a stick but we're obviously the minority. I once had to drive the entire way during a 2-day road trip in Europe because my friend didn't know how to drive a manual.
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  #92  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2018, 12:29 AM
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Fallen out of love doesn't mean diddly squat.

This entire country's infrastructure is built for and by cars, even the legacy cities that have metro systems are archaic and falling apart and haven't had any meaningful additions in over half a century. The previous generations cursed us.
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  #93  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2018, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I'm a millennial and I know how to because my first car was manual. My father kind of insisted that my sister and I know how to drive a stick.
You're an old-llennial though so you don't really represent people in their early and mid-twenties. I can guarantee that an extremely low percentage of people in my age range have even touched a stick shift much less driven one and learned how to drive one, mostly because there's no point.
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  #94  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2018, 6:19 AM
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Pivoting away from normal cars seems very myopic, but I guess it's American car manufacturers we're talking about.
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  #95  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2018, 9:48 AM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
The amount of $40,000+ full size trucks I see all over the place is staggering. They are essentially luxury vehicles at that price point even if it is an F-Series. It's like half the block owning a BMW or Cadillac.
That’s because you’re in Texas

I think they really like pickup trucks down there.

Where I live, they are still viewed as a redneck thing
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  #96  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2018, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
The amount of $40,000+ full size trucks I see all over the place is staggering. They are essentially luxury vehicles at that price point even if it is an F-Series. It's like half the block owning a BMW or Cadillac.
Cowboy Cadillacs. The red state metros have tons and tons of people driving 60k pickups. I noticed this in Dallas. Every other McMansion has a fancy pickup in the driveway. It's kind of incredible.

In the coastal metros, a pickup, 99% of the time, is a work vehicle, not a suburban luxury ride. MB, Audi, BMW SUVs are the coastal metro equivalents (i.e. typical showy suburban car).
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  #97  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2018, 1:54 PM
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In a waiting room at Northwestern Hospital looking out the window at the parking garage. I see zero pickup trucks. I can set an upper limit on pickup truck prevalence at a few percent.
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  #98  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2018, 2:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
In a waiting room at Northwestern Hospital looking out the window at the parking garage. I see zero pickup trucks. I can set an upper limit on pickup truck prevalence at a few percent.
But I bet you see a ton of MB/BMW/Audi SUVs, especially at Northwestern Medical. Pickups aren't driven by professionals in major blue state metros, unless they're contractors.
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  #99  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2018, 2:38 PM
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i was reading this thread while riding metra through the northside of chicago, so i decided to look out the window and observe the style of cars i could see on the streets below as i rolled by. not many pick-ups at all, and those i did see definitely looked like tradesmen trucks (ie. well-used and/or actually carrying shit).

by far the most ubiquitous type of vehicle i saw was the honda CRV style of crossover, whether it was a nissan, or a ford, or a toyota, or a chevy, or a mazda, or a kia, etc. they all look more or less the same, and there were thousands of them. that size/style of auotmobile is now the default style of "car", at least in chicago.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Nov 28, 2018 at 4:39 PM.
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  #100  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2018, 3:06 PM
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Not sure how trucks became a blue state/ red state thing but much has to do with the local culture. Vermont is granola crunching territory and you see them all over up there too. Sure, there are no shortage rednecks who ride around in lifted duallies with III%'er stickers but more often than not, I will see professionals with unmolested King Ranch Editions who simply prefer these over a 5-Series. If Texas were to be "blue" and it already is in all the major metros, trucks will still be prevalent. Because Texas.

They are just expensive. At least they hold their resale value much better than luxury brands. I have a 2 year-old Acura and that thing is depreciating fast.
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