ATLANTA | Development Thread VI

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

I'd love for the agenda to just be delayed from being public. At the time I posted as well as now, there is no agenda posted on their webpage. If there's a meeting, the agenda is typically up on midtown alliance's webpage by close of business the Friday before the meeting.

http://www.midtownatl.com/about/prog...view-committee

Update, officially no meeting 9/12 per the Midtown Alliance: "There will be no Development Review Committee Meeting September 12, 2017.
The next public meeting will be held Tuesday, October 10 2017 at 5:30 PM. "

[montydawg]

Originally Posted by daharris80

It means Amazon might employ up to 150 people in 25,000 sq. ft. of office space at AS.

I agree- if in fact Atlanta is chosen for HQ2, they would eventually consolidate their Atlanta operations in that one location, wherever it is, however, it shows that even for a minor white collar office, they are still choosing in-town versus a suburban location, which I feel is significant.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by daharris80

It means Amazon might employ up to 150 people in 25,000 sq. ft. of office space at AS.

Are you suggesting they came out with an RFQ on Friday to try and get billions of incentives to bring a development they say may employ tens of thousands of employees only so that on Monday they can make their intentions clear by making a decision public they probably knew weeks ago that a business unit with 150 employees is opening an office in Atlanta?

Lets all discuss how terrible of a decision it was for Amazon to choose AS for their HQ2 because it's now imminent.

BS (Bigstick) and I are suggesting Amazon's decision to locate their new Logicistics hub here is a good sign Atlanta is on their radar. Why?

First, step back and understand this is not a typical "logistics" hub. It is not a distribution center, it will be a technology center where Amazon develops products and services to compete with the likes of UPS and FEDEX and potentially drone technology. For Amazon, developing a logistics network is their most important initative because it will allow them to quickly reduce their cost of goods sold, increase profitability and speed they can get goods to their consumers. Why locate in here? Atlanta is home to the world's largest shipping company and second largest airline.

If we were selected for HQ2 Atlantic Station would not be the primary location, but most definitely could see a couple thousand jobs locate there.

[themaguffin]

First, step back and understand what this is not a typical "logistics" hub. It is not a distribution center, it will be a technology center where Amazon develops products and services to compete with the likes of UPS and FEDEX and potentially drone technology. For Amazon, developing a logistics network is their most important initative because it will allow them to quickly reduce their cost of goods sold, increase profitability and speed they can get goods to their consumers. Why locate in here? Atlanta is home to the world's largest shipping company and second largest airline.

The point remains that this is not more than coincidence.

Atlanta is not the only city to gain a tech related office.

Amazon is expanding like crazy and entrenching itself I many cities.

The points you mentioned may have been considerations for the specific needs to the logistics center, but the HQ2 is totally different and its needs are outlined in the RFP.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

The point remains that this is not more than coincidence.

Atlanta is not the only city to gain a tech related office.

Amazon is expanding like crazy and entrenching itself I many cities.

The points you mentioned may have been considerations for the specific needs to the logistics center, but the HQ2 is totally different and its needs are outlined in the RFP.

Amazon is the leading ecommerce company in the world. The most important function of an ecommerce company outside of sales/marketing is supply chain/logistics. Having Amazon locate this TECHNOLOGY function in Atlanta is a massive recognition. Having a pool of technology/data science talent from GA Tech and supply chain experts from UPS and Delta will certainly be a major advantage Atlanta has over competing cities. Boston, Austin and RTP certainly don't offer this talent pool.

[themaguffin]

I took the time to write a logical response to your reply.

However, you quote a fraction of my response and just say WOW. Did you mean:
WOW - ATL3K you are a moron.
WOW - ATL3K you thought of something I had not considered
I am the one that should be asking "What...??"

Just as before, I quoted something...


This is what I quoted:

Boston, Austin and RTP certainly don't offer this talent pool

I reacted to that comment. I'm finding the hyperbole from city boosters - and no just here, but for most every city that is applying to be getting more and more, well over the top.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

Just as before, I quoted something...


This is what I quoted:



I reacted to that comment. I'm finding the hyperbole from city boosters - and no just here, but for most every city that is applying to be getting more and more, well over the top.

Did I use hyperbole or facts? There is a distinction. Again, Atlanta is home to the largest shipping company and second largest airline in the world. I forgot to mention Atlanta is also home to the fourth largest retail company in the US - Home Depot (1. Wal-Mart 2. Costco 3. Kroger) and the largest beverage company in the world - CocaCola. All of these companies employ thousands of technology and supply chain employees in Atlanta.

Austin, Boston and RTP have a deep bench of technology talent. However, they lack the functional talent on the supply chain and logistics side of the house. Atlanta offers both.

[Street Advocate]

Just a note, MIT (Cambridge), CMU (Pittsburgh), UT (Austin), and GT (Atlanta) all have top 10 programs in CS, supply chain, and engineering programs. The other city's universities have an upper hand on business programs compared to Atlanta, although Atlanta certainly has a booming job industry and regional draw of talent. But hey, I'm not sold there is a clear choice of which city Amazon should move to and hence whey the sent out the RFP. Chicago or Philly could easily take HQ2 and I don't think it would be a shock. That said, i think the cities I've listed (Boston, Pittsburgh, Austin, Atlanta, Chicago, and Philly) are all great choices for a handful of reasons. I'm leaving Nashville off the list simply out of spite and I really don't see why Amazon would choose the research triangle/Charlotte over the other cities simply due to state politics.

[themaguffin]

Did I use hyperbole or facts? There is a distinction. Again, Atlanta is home to the largest shipping company and second largest airline in the world. I forgot to mention Atlanta is also home to the fourth largest retail company in the US - Home Depot (1. Wal-Mart 2. Costco 3. Kroger) and the largest beverage company in the world - CocaCola. All of these companies employ thousands of technology and supply chain employees in Atlanta.

Austin, Boston and RTP have a deep bench of technology talent. However, they lack the functional talent on the supply chain and logistics side of the house. Atlanta offers both.

You still have note read what I wrote in terms of what I specifically replied to. You replied with your comment again. I quoted a specific line.

And you are assuming specific needs of Amazon. They have outlined broad criteria. They have logistics set up in various locations.

Again, many cities have a lot to offer, but we do not know the specifics in terms of weight of criteria or their thoughts on recruiting tech talent or other corporate positions. Some posters have suggested that they move to Cincy (cheap costs) where they can pillage Macy's and Kroger employees.

Maybe, but I don't think that is enough for them to move there.

Boston offers a lot, but is pricey. DC is pricey too and while it has tech employees, no tech university per se.

Atlanta would and should be seriously considered, but there is no clear winner.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Just a note, MIT (Cambridge), CMU (Pittsburgh), UT (Austin), and GT (Atlanta) all have top 10 programs in CS, supply chain, and engineering programs. The other city's universities have an upper hand on business programs compared to Atlanta, although Atlanta certainly has a booming job industry and regional draw of talent. But hey, I'm not sold there is a clear choice of which city Amazon should move to and hence whey the sent out the RFP. Chicago or Philly could easily take HQ2 and I don't think it would be a shock. That said, i think the cities I've listed (Boston, Pittsburgh, Austin, Atlanta, Chicago, and Philly) are all great choices for a handful of reasons. I'm leaving Nashville off the list simply out of spite and I really don't see why Amazon would choose the research triangle/Charlotte over the other cities simply due to state politics.

First, there is not city in the US today that has 50K technology people unemployed. So Amazon's decision is not solely based on a target city's talent pool today, BUT the ability of the host city's ability to attract talent in the future. Atlanta is the third fastest growing metro in the US (behind Houston and Dallas). So I think Atlanta checks the box here. I personally believe it would be extremely difficult for Amazon to attract talent to Chicago, Philly or Boston for various reason.

Lastly I do not see Amazon considering any city with a population less than 4 Million. Seattle's population is almost 3 million and the city can not accommodate Amazon's growth. Therefore I can not conceive how Amazon can realistically consider Austin, Charlotte and the RTP areas because of their limited infrastructure.

[themaguffin]

First, there is not city in the US today that has 50K technology people unemployed. So Amazon's decision is not solely based on a target city's talent pool today, BUT the ability of the host city's ability to attract talent in the future. Atlanta is the third fastest growing metro in the US (behind Houston and Dallas). So I think Atlanta checks the box here. I personally believe it would be extremely difficult for Amazon to attract talent to Chicago, Philly or Boston for various reason.

This goes into what I brought up before....

BUT the ability of the host city's ability to attract talent in the future.

The winning city will automatically be able to attract candidates because of Amazon.

Chicago, Philly and Boston have top notch amenities and institutions, long established at that. Boston, however, is pricey.

Lastly I do not see Amazon considering any city with a population less than 4 Million

Except that they specifically noted metros of 1 million+

Is it likely that a metro of 1 million will get this? Doubtful as I don't see of any that offers the basic criteria robustly, but I wouldn't rule out a Raleigh.

The job growth will be over many, many years, it's not a boom of 50K or anything remotely close to it (if the winning city even sees 50K ever).

Atlanta has well known infrastructure issues so I wouldn't note it as a bright spot. If Atlanta wins, it will be despite its infrastructure, not because of it.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

This goes into what I brought up before....



The winning city will automatically be able to attract candidates because of Amazon.

Chicago, Philly and Boston have top notch amenities and institutions, long established at that. Boston, however, is pricey.




Except that they specifically noted metros of 1 million+

Is it likely that a metro of 1 million will get this? Doubtful as I don't see of any that offers the basic criteria robustly, but I wouldn't rule out a Raleigh.

The job growth will be over many, many years, it's not a boom of 50K or anything remotely close to it (if the winning city even sees 50K ever).

Atlanta has well known infrastructure issues so I wouldn't note it as a bright spot. If Atlanta wins, it will be despite its infrastructure, not because of it.

I work in technology (big data) and Amazon is the largest big data company with their AWS offering. I would never consider going to Chicago, Boston or Philly to work for them. I can assure you I am not the only one that thinks like this

Amazon noted in the RFP buildout by 2027 (10 years) for 50K employees and 8 Million sq ft of office. Cities take decades to build out the infrastructure Amazon needs. Austin and RTP cannot shit a mass transit system in this time frame.

[themaguffin]

I would never consider going to Chicago, Boston or Philly to work for them. I can assure you I am not the only one that thinks like this

It's not about what you or I or other individuals would do. They are doing to do their homework.

Amazon noted in the RFP buildout by 2027 (10 years) for 50K employees and 8 Million sq ft of office. Cities take decades to build out the infrastructure Amazon needs. Austin and RTP cannot shit a mass transit system in this time frame

I agree that is a big challenge for those cities in terms of transit. I don't see the buildout as too big of an obstacle for most cities, given the timeframe.

[sbrptree]

I miss the old days (like last year) when people on this forum posted pics of new development and the overall vibe was positive. Sadly it seems now that the development cycle has slowed, the majority of the content is comprised of individual city planning opinions from "experts". Yawn.

[montydawg]

Originally Posted by sbrptree

Sadly it seems now that the development cycle has slowed, the majority of the content is comprised of individual city planning opinions from "experts". Yawn.

Haha, I don't think any of us proclaim to be "experts", just active observers and excited about our city. I think many people on this forum contribute positively in their own capacities, whether they are architects, in real estate, or they are just a city booster. If you don't want to be a part of this discussion with like minded development people, perhaps city-data may offer the more intellectual, curated atmosphere you are looking for

[cabasse]

my husband talked to someone fairly high up at his current employer who seems to have inside knowledge that it might be st louis. take that as you will of course, it could be complete bullshit. but that's one in particular i haven't seen mentioned yet myself.

[ATL_J]

Who am I to guess at Amazon's internal preferences? Perhaps St. Louis will be the final selection, but considering proposals aren't due into mid-October and that incentives from both cities and states will probably play a factor, I would be dubious of any claims that "City A" or "City B" is the front runner.

[Tuckerman]

Of course a writer at the NYT recently picked Denver as the most likely, based on some reasonably good criteria - still, under those criteria Atlanta ranked in the top ten and had a very good rationale for AmazonII.

I believe ATL has a good shot at this, but I remain a bit skeptical of the ultimate value. Over the years many companies have grown and then diminished. Think of SEARS, WARDS, FORD, GM, etc etc. We certainly picture Amazon as a company getting ever larger and ever more important, but there are also reasons to argue that it is getting too big and that other emergent innovative organizations could change Amazon's growth curve and that in 10 years it will be in decline. Given current innovative timelines, we should be somewhat cautious in thinking this is such a great opportunity.

[Neighbor]

I recall reading an article somewhat recently where Reed described a future development that would make previous developments in this cycle look like peanuts. Not a direct quote, but that was basically what he was saying. My initial thought was that he was referring to the Hawks interest in developing the Gulch, now I think that he may have been referring to advanced talks with Amazon.

Anyone recall the article? I don't even remember which publication it was in.

[AtlHeel]

I think Atlanta might be the best choice considering the airport, MARTA, talent base, educational institutions, weather, cost of living, development costs, and avaialble land, but Boston is a close second (education & research they are no. 1), and I think they will ultimately get selected. Politics, Atlanta's perception in the NW, and insiders preferences.