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  #41  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2015, 9:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
Many people don't know, but Toronto was first founded as a french fort. There is a monument in Exhibition Park about it.
As was Kingston (Fort Frontenac), another city with very little of a historic francophone community.
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  #42  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2015, 9:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
Winnipeg and New England had established communities and so people moved to them and the path became well worn, but I'm hoping someone with more knowledge about S. Ontario can clarify whether a theory I have might have any validity. Was perhaps the original reason French Canadian communities weren't established there because of the Orange Order discouraging Catholic settlement in those areas in S. Ontario's early history? If so, I can see why other areas would have developed more robust communities.
The Orange Order may have played a role (they certainly weren't keen on the French), but you'll find an old Catholic church in almost every decently-sized small town in Southern Ontario (some being quite imposing). The Irish were historically the largest Catholic group in the region though, and tensions between the Irish and French Canadians were not unheard of (I believe there was even some violence between the two communities for a time in the Ottawa Valley). With the huge influx of Irish Catholics to North America in the 19th Century, the Church hierarchy began to be dominated by Anglophones - at least north of Mexico - leading to some resentment in Quebec. On the other side, my Irish Catholic grandmother recounts how Quebecois were perceived by her community during her earlier years - while the Irish were certainly devout, they perceived Francophones as downright fanatics (the difference between a twelve child family and a sixteen child family, I guess). It's also important to note that the Church is a diverse body and some practices and beliefs held by French Canadian Catholics would've been absolutely foreign to their Irish coreligionists and vice versa.
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  #43  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2015, 9:15 PM
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Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
Many people don't know, but Toronto was first founded as a french fort. There is a monument in Exhibition Park about it.
There was no continuous settlement though, so you might as well say Toronto was founded by the Mississaugas, the Haudenosaunee, or even the pre-colonial Iroquoian peoples who got caught up in the Beaver Wars and destroyed/subsumed by their more powerful neighbours.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2015, 9:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
As was Kingston (Fort Frontenac), another city with very little of a historic francophone community.
I think Fort Frontenac was the most substantial of the New France forts in what is now Ontario. There was another one on an island in the St Lawrence River, the site of which was flooded by the St Lawrence Seaway.
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  #45  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2015, 9:19 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
I think Fort Frontenac was the most substantial of the New France forts in what is now Ontario. There was another one on an island in the St Lawrence River, the site of which was flooded by the St Lawrence Seaway.
And the Detroit-Windsor area ? Even the lands there are made in the french way.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2015, 9:34 PM
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Originally Posted by FrAnKs View Post
And the Detroit-Windsor area ? Even the lands there are made in the french way.
Yeah, if you count Detroit-Windsor as being sort of in Ontario, it was definitely the largest.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2015, 9:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Yeah, if you count Detroit-Windsor as being sort of in Ontario, it was definitely the largest.
Indeed. We just bairly see it now because it's urbanized. There is just few lands remaining in the LaSalle area SW of Windsor.
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  #48  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2015, 9:38 PM
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Originally Posted by FrAnKs View Post
Indeed. We just bairly see it now because it's urbanized. There is just few lands remaining in the LaSalle area SW of Windsor.
They had a parish saying mass in French in Detroit until the 50s or 60s I think. One of the oldest parishes in the US.
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  #49  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2015, 9:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
They had a parish saying mass in French in Detroit until the 50s or 60s I think. One of the oldest parishes in the US.
I remember stories of there being (or having been) some French speakers along the Michigan shore of Lake Huron, down around Alpena somewhere.
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  #50  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2015, 9:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
I remember stories of there being (or having been) some French speakers along the Michigan shore of Lake Huron, down around Alpena somewhere.
There were some all over the middle part of the U.S. from the Great Lakes on down. Places like Bourbonnais and Kankakee, Illinois south of Chicago, Ste-Geneviève and Cape Girardeau south of St Louis in Missouri.

Just look at the place names all over that area.

EDIT: Madonna is from Michigan and is of French Canadian origin on her mother's side. Her mother was Madonna Louise Fortin. She's a very distant cousin of Céline Dion in fact.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2015, 9:57 PM
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Even ''Detroit'' is french. It would have been ''Strait'' in English.
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  #52  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2015, 10:00 PM
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Much of Detroit is now crooked.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 6:13 AM
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The former house of the founder of Detroit in Montréal is now a McDonald's...
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  #54  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 6:48 AM
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It's not just Quebec, most Canadians don't migrate outside of their home province. There are, of course, the notable exceptions like working class Newfoundlanders in Alberta, or middle class Alberta retirees in BC.

I'm sure somebody can pull up real stats on this, instead of my anecdotal gibberish, but it seems like Canadians are just as likely to move out of the country as they are to move out-of-province.

The US is the opposite. There is a tremendous amount of internal migration, to various sunbelt states but also of educated people to liberal coastal cities (much smaller in number than the former, but quite large in overall impact), but apart from the very rich and the very educated, Americans are conspicuously absent as ex-pats.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 12:52 PM
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Some stats. I'm on my phone and don't know how to share a link but it's Net interprovincial migration by province and territory from Stats Can.

Since 1976, interprovincial migration has totalled:

NL: -119,318
PEI: -828
NS: -30,029
NB: -39,377
QC: -465,384
ON: 63,202
MB: -173,673
SK: -151,741
AB: 483,576
BC: 456,308

In any given year, the number of migrants tends to be between 250,000-300,000.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 1:34 PM
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Never thought it would have been so high for Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Nova Scotia and New Brunswick fare less poorly than I would have thought. QC and Newfoundland: Ouch.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 1:38 PM
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I'm mostly surprised by B.C.'s strong showing. Maybe retiring there for the weather actually is a thing.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 1:46 PM
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BC was the destination in the early-mid 90s. I was one of them.
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  #59  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 1:48 PM
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Oh! O.K. I didn't know that.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 1:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Never thought it would have been so high for Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Nova Scotia and New Brunswick fare less poorly than I would have thought. QC and Newfoundland: Ouch.
The thing with NB and NS is that the large-scale bleeding had already begun prior to 1976. By 1976 many of the people who would have left were already gone and the provinces may have been more "right-sized" demographic-wise. At least for the economic zeitgeist of the era. Then another gut-punch hit them starting in the 90s.

Quebec's outmigration was due to the factors we all know about and mainly involved you-know-who.
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