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  #441  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2016, 9:06 PM
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Low oil prices hollow out Calgary's downtown core
Silent cubicle farms, abandoned offices, and empty coffee rooms where bustling towers used to stand

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ices-1.3439316
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  #442  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2016, 9:57 PM
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New City of Calgary survey: https://actionplancheckin.metroquest.ca/
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  #443  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2016, 10:10 PM
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Oil giant Husky lays off hundreds at Calgary office

http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/oil-g...fice-1.2771923
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  #444  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2016, 12:37 AM
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Then there's this: http://business.financialpost.com/ne..._lsa=3d6b-96bf

Really sad what's happening to our city.
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  #445  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2016, 1:19 AM
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At least the media is finally paying attention to this story.
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  #446  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2016, 3:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
At least the media is finally paying attention to this story.
Until the People's Democratic Broadcasting Union, the CBC, actually takes this particular issue seriously, you can equate that to the Liberals level of concern, or non-concern as the case may be.
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  #447  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2016, 4:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
At least the media is finally paying attention to this story.
Which one? For a long time it made way more sense to ship to the mid-west than to ship overseas. If the government had had a Canada first policy the oil patch would have cried foul.
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  #448  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2016, 6:13 PM
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If the government had had a Canada first policy the oil patch would have cried foul.
Doesn't this describe the NEP of the early 1980s?
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  #449  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2016, 6:26 PM
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Why would the oil patch be against selling more Alberta oil to Eastern Canada?
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  #450  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2016, 6:40 PM
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Doesn't this describe the NEP of the early 1980s?
Hmm. Not really. That was mostly cross-subsidization added to a 'made in Canada' price that continued from the 70s and to the National Oil Policy that forced Ontario to buy Alberta oil from the Diefenbaker era (Quebec complained for the right to buy cheaper foreign oil and a dividing line was drawn at the Ottawa river). In addition there was taxes to fund buying out foreign ownership, and to fund new frontiers of production in the far north and the oil sands.

The system was predicated on oil prices always going up - conventional oil was running out and the public was concerned about continual oil shortages and ever higher prices. By the middle of the mandate most of the policy was dismantled by Chrétien as Energy Minister since the economics didn't make sense by then.

Forcing Alberta to sell oil to captive Canadian markets means two things:
1) pipeline companies get a huge new asset to make fixed returns, at much higher rates than shipping to the US midwest or west coast because the distance is longer.
2) someone would have to figure out how to price Alberta blend fairly, which can only be done if there is either an export market for it or competition from imports.

Energy East only makes sense when every other option is blocked.
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  #451  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2016, 6:41 PM
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Why would the oil patch be against selling more Alberta oil to Eastern Canada?
Because it is hella expensive to move it there versus other markets if the other markets are governed by similar access rules. Pure physics of moving oil - energy east is really long - 4600 km. Keystone XL is/was 1897 km plus 1220 km on Seaway to get to the Gulf (though once it is delivered at Cushing, it is fungible so that last segment counts less as a seller cost, because it would likely displace offshore imports into PADD 2 not be transferred into PADD 3, especially since the USA allows US crude exports now, and that transport cost is covered mostly in the Brent/WTI spread).

source:http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=4890

At that image source link you can see that exports from PADD 2 to PADD 3 were 10% of the reverse flow. Before the Bakken oil movement between districts was low because most districts didn't produce more than their consumption, and had access to cheaper imports from either Canada or overseas versus moving it between districts. That Canada had basically a captive market in the mid-West was awesome until it really wasn't. It knocked us down first a couple years ago (the Bitumen Bubble) and then knocked everyone down once the technology spread.

Last edited by MalcolmTucker; Feb 11, 2016 at 6:54 PM.
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  #452  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2016, 6:53 PM
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Well OK, but some is better than none, no? And obviously the oil industry isn't against it, as they want access to markets, hence their support for Line 9 and Energy East.
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  #453  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2016, 7:07 PM
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Well OK, but some is better than none, no? And obviously the oil industry isn't against it, as they want access to markets, hence their support for Line 9 and Energy East.
It is good now. But even when energy east was announced it was an on the bubble project. And Line 9 doesn't move oil sands in quantity (the Ontario and Quebec refineries don't have the capacity to crack heavy crude in cokers), but as oil is mostly fungible any oil taken out of PADD2 is good for the oil sands. Hence the Koch Coker in Detroit being a good thing. We send oil sands to a refinery capable of coking, and in turn buy Bakken oil for our non-coker refineries.

It might seem perverse but it makes a lot of sense. It will make sense to continue to import foreign light oil into New Brunswick as we export heavy oil. The tankers get used both ways, and Canada doesn't have to build a new coker in a high labour and carbon cost environment.

Refineries have for the past decades save for a couple brief periods in recent memory been totally awful investments. There is a massive incentive for oversupply by importing nations that has destroyed the crack spread, hence the difficulty in getting New Brunswick's second phase built.
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  #454  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2016, 1:26 AM
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About the housing market have we hit bottom yet?
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  #455  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2016, 4:09 PM
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About the housing market have we hit bottom yet?
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  #456  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2016, 9:47 PM
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Any I get more input besides a laugh?
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  #457  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2016, 10:17 PM
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About the housing market have we hit bottom yet?
Not even close to the bottom. Unless there is a major military conflict in the middle east, there is no expectation for oil prices to dramatically increase over the next year.
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  #458  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2016, 11:42 PM
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I saw quite a few people walking east along 9th and 8th avenue this morning at 10 am, there must have been about 200 people. They were all together and looked like a bit of a death march... anyone have any ideas if there was anymore layoffs today?
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  #459  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2016, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by red_179 View Post
Not even close to the bottom. Unless there is a major military conflict in the middle east, there is no expectation for oil prices to dramatically increase over the next year.
There's also typically a 12-18 month lag linked to consumer confidence, which is why home prices didn't begin dipping in later summer/ September 2014.

Once oil prices recover, expect another slow year in terms of home sales.
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  #460  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2016, 7:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MrBigStuff View Post
Too many anti business governments around - getting in the way of prosperity
Need I name names???
All the talk of the economy, politics and who to blame / what to do has gotten me interested in starting a conversation to hear some opinions on the role that policy, business and perception has in the economy. The common rhetoric in Alberta is to blame the NDP or Trudeau or the NEP. Personally, I believe this gives politicians too much credit on their actions. Similarly, when times are good, government policy is also given too much credit (usually by the politicians in charge) for causing the great conditions. My comments I express below are from my research in spatial economic processes. They are generalizations - which always have exceptions - however I do believe support the current economic realities we can see in Alberta.


One common misunderstanding many people and politicians have is that they can impact where economic activity locates. In reality, they can tweak things, shift investment slightly, but are largely at the whims of global macro-forces. Only on the very, very long term does it appear that government actions can have a role.

This applies both to pro-business and anti-business policies. Alberta can give oil away for free and remove royalties entirely, but will not come close to erasing the transportation cost reality of having lots of oil in a place in the world that is far from markets. It could build all the pipelines that it wants and it won't erase the effect of the global macro-forces against our product.

Remember, similar forces are what propelled Alberta to the insane levels of prosperity that it witnessed from 2001 - 2015. Government policy did little to encourage the overall boom. Sure some policies helped shape where certain activities took place through infrastructure improvements, certain royalty changes that were on the margin, allowing new investment to be attracted. But on aggregate, Alberta's economy was just the lucky recipient of a global resource boom outside local control.

So while research suggests governments are not able to control economic forces, government policy does clearly have some tangible economic effects on the local scale (think zoning) and on the very long-run (think investing in the CPR back in the 1880s to make Western Canada). But zoning itself doesn't create development. Neither does a railroad, unless the underlying economic impetus was already there to justify building it.

This leads to the big question: What should the Alberta governments do? What can they do?

They could be very pro-oil and reduce taxes, build pipelines, cancel royalties, but if oil isn't over $50 / bbl, no one is investing in any oil sands regardless of all the money we spend. So we could waste huge amounts of money attracting an industry that doesn't want to invest here anyway. All this to attract investment in a industry that might have it's best years behind it.

They could promote green energy, invest in technology companies and other sectors with tax breaks and other incentives to attempt to diversify the economy. But Alberta is a high-cost workforce environment and lacks the brand/history of such a place to attract the right kind of workforce and attention that these industries require. Many places attempt to become another silicon valley, how many are successful? How many are actually created through government policy? Hint: not many.

It's because of this that I am always suspect of both diversification / supporting our oil strategies that both sides of the arguments.

I would love to hear some other opinions.
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