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  #241  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 12:10 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
It becomes difficult to say "our" veterans for anything pre-1867.
No...

Well, maybe for you


P.S. Turns out I had correctly guessed Xelebes' point (which wasn't that cryptic, frankly) with my replies to you and GernB
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  #242  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
Do we classify something like the Seven Years War as a civil war? At the time the French and English in NA were not united politically, but are now.
Of course not, not anymore than we would, in an alternate history where the Nazis hold onto Poland, northern France, etc. and conquer Britain, etc. later retrospectively label WWII in Europe a "civil war".

That'd make no sense.
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  #243  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
The situation in Syria involves the creation of a rogue state which is perpetuating crimes against humanity, torture, mass killing of civilians, systemic human rights abuses, and constant perpetual threats of terror against innocent people. The only real difference is the scale.
That's not a particularly good analogy for Nazi Germany without revising history. The world recognized the Nazi government as legitimate, for starters.

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Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
I think it is a legitimate question to ask whether Canada - from the comfort of it's own natural borders - is willing to make the decision to effectively turn their backs on these people who have been severely disadvantaged by war, poverty, and historic policies of our own country's past. It speaks to our values one way or another.

I think we all intimately understand the argument that Syria isn't part of Canada therefore there are no legal requirements to help and even if we do they can use our efforts as recruiting elements in a propaganda war. Yes yes, we all understand that. But there is a human cost to ignoring the millions of people who are being killed, injured, tortured, and living under the constant threat of terror, and I don't think it's absurd to at least have a conversation about whether we are willing to sacrifice those people by turning our backs entirely by taking our military and going home because we decided as Canadians it isn't worth the risk. Again, whatever decision we choose, it speaks to our values, but it isn't nearly as cut and dry as some people here are trying to assume.


I agree that it's a legitimate question, however part of that question is looking at how our actions (should we choose to take any) would actually helping these people. If there's one thing that we've learned over the past 13 years it's that air strikes alone aren't a particularly effective method of deterring sectarian violence on the ground. A couple 500lb bombs every day isn't going to stop what's going on in terms of human violence, and with a relative lack of hardened military targets I'd ask what it's really accomplishing. Certainly not diminishing the presence of extremists, which again our experience (on home soil this time!) should tell us. Pretty much every counterinsurgency strategy has called for lots of boots on the ground for an extended period of time which isn't on the table here.

FWIW there are many other situations in the world that fit the same bill of human suffering. For instance, Boko Haram is arguably worse than ISIS in some respects and we don't seem to care a whole lot about that. Not necessarily saying we should.
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  #244  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 1:50 PM
VANRIDERFAN VANRIDERFAN is offline
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Seems like Halifax may have erred in getting rid of Stoffer and Leslie.

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  #245  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 1:56 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN View Post
Seems like Halifax may have erred in getting rid of Stoffer and Leslie.

I don't understand the reference.
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  #246  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 2:05 PM
VANRIDERFAN VANRIDERFAN is offline
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
I don't understand the reference.
Mr Leslie (former general) is rumoured to be the next defence minister. His grandfather was a WWII General and defence minister in the Mackenzie-King government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_McNaughton

Before he released from the forces he authored a report for the transformation of the armed forces. Being a mud-monkey he of course favoured increasing the army at the expense of the RCN and RCAF. His report was not very favourable received. If he becomes defence minister he will likely try to implement it.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novasco...ws-for-halifax
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  #247  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 3:05 PM
geotag277 geotag277 is offline
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Originally Posted by niwell View Post
I agree that it's a legitimate question, however part of that question is looking at how our actions (should we choose to take any) would actually helping these people. If there's one thing that we've learned over the past 13 years it's that air strikes alone aren't a particularly effective method of deterring sectarian violence on the ground. A couple 500lb bombs every day isn't going to stop what's going on in terms of human violence, and with a relative lack of hardened military targets I'd ask what it's really accomplishing. Certainly not diminishing the presence of extremists, which again our experience (on home soil this time!) should tell us. Pretty much every counterinsurgency strategy has called for lots of boots on the ground for an extended period of time which isn't on the table here.
I don't know how easy it is to say whether there are more extremists or less now due to our efforts. Did ISIS create a quarter of a million extremists or were they always there and the only difference now is that they have a banner to follow? If the West completely stayed out of the Middle East for the last hundred years, would there be significantly less extremists or would the extremist movement expand unfettered like Communism without "containment"?

It's not as easy to say as you seem to assume.

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Originally Posted by niwell View Post
FWIW there are many other situations in the world that fit the same bill of human suffering. For instance, Boko Haram is arguably worse than ISIS in some respects and we don't seem to care a whole lot about that. Not necessarily saying we should.
I think it's not really fair to say Canada doesn't care about that. One big difference is that the African governments involved have unilaterally rejected Western support until recently. It seems to me, Canada offered and gave support as soon as the door was open too.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle18506509/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle23470116/
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  #248  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 3:33 PM
Taeolas Taeolas is offline
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So on a lighter note, apparently, our PM is homeless.

24 Sussex Drive needs millions of dollars in structural repairs, so he can't move in for a year or two. (It was needed back in 2008, but a certain someone said there was no way in hell he was leaving the PM residence before he had to).

Trudeau and his family meanwhile have been renting a place in Ottawa.

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Trudeau and his wife, Sophie Gré​goire, sold their Montreal home and had been living in a rented home in Rockcliffe, the same prestigious Ottawa neighbourhood that houses 24 Sussex, Rideau Hall and Stornoway, the official residence for the leader of the Official Opposition. His children have attended a local school.

Trudeau told reporters covering his election campaign this fall that the house they've been renting was sold, so win or lose on Oct. 19, they'd need to move out very shortly after that.
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  #249  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 4:12 PM
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Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN View Post
Mr Leslie (former general) is rumoured to be the next defence minister...
Which will have a real "fox among the henhouse" feel to it. Not sure if you've met him at all, but a great soldier - did lots of great things while in uniform, however his days since have been ... less stellar. His stint at CGI was not looked upon fondly by any of their execs (and it cost one his head) and the move fees, while not illegal certainly were questionable. Glad he found a home at Libbies though ... since the Conbots, the RCMP and another agency who shall remain nameless as said "thanks but no".

Should be for an interesting time .... wonder if he'll resurect the CCV program?? Perhaps that's where they can redirect the LAV 6's once they cancel the Saudi deal??
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  #250  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 4:21 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Originally Posted by Taeolas View Post
So on a lighter note, apparently, our PM is homeless.

24 Sussex Drive needs millions of dollars in structural repairs, so he can't move in for a year or two. (It was needed back in 2008, but a certain someone said there was no way in hell he was leaving the PM residence before he had to).

Trudeau and his family meanwhile have been renting a place in Ottawa.
I wonder if Justin could mess around with the Conservative interim leader contest by moving into Stornaway until 24 Sussex is revovated?
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  #251  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 4:27 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
I wonder if Justin could mess around with the Conservative interim leader contest by moving into Stornaway until 24 Sussex is revovated?
Sounds like something Harper would do.
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  #252  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 4:35 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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The loonie is continuing to decline... I'm mildly annoyed.

Looks like the markets aren't that thrilled by the idea of huge deficits and spending after all.
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  #253  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 4:37 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
The loonie is continuing to decline... I'm mildly annoyed.

Looks like the markets aren't that thrilled by the idea of huge deficits and spending after all.
Yes, because governments at a time of 10-year 1.5% borrowing rates are trying to shove more austerity down our throats?

Time to spend. This is Canada, not some indebted Mediterranean state(s) whose economy has one foot on a banana peel and another in the grave.

Most analysts have said the spending plan is reasonable, so are the deficits. The old adage holds true - to make money you have to spend money.
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  #254  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 4:45 PM
VANRIDERFAN VANRIDERFAN is offline
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Originally Posted by shreddog View Post
Which will have a real "fox among the henhouse" feel to it. Not sure if you've met him at all, but a great soldier - did lots of great things while in uniform, however his days since have been ... less stellar. His stint at CGI was not looked upon fondly by any of their execs (and it cost one his head) and the move fees, while not illegal certainly were questionable. Glad he found a home at Libbies though ... since the Conbots, the RCMP and another agency who shall remain nameless as said "thanks but no".

Should be for an interesting time .... wonder if he'll resurect the CCV program?? Perhaps that's where they can redirect the LAV 6's once they cancel the Saudi deal??
I don't know. Many of my friends in RCN who have worked for him or knew him at Ottawa do not have many kind words for the man.
Once again the military is hunkering down for incoming rounds. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
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  #255  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 4:46 PM
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Marijuana legalization

I wonder how long it will take Trudeau to get to work on the Marijuana issue?

I'm not a smoker myself, but it's one of the reasons I voted for him. He had the balls to do what past PM's haven't and that it to deal with the issue rather than pretend it doesn't exist.



60221186 by HorrOr-, on Flickr
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  #256  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 4:49 PM
Tetsuo Tetsuo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN View Post
Mr Leslie (former general) is rumoured to be the next defence minister. His grandfather was a WWII General and defence minister in the Mackenzie-King government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_McNaughton

Before he released from the forces he authored a report for the transformation of the armed forces. Being a mud-monkey he of course favoured increasing the army at the expense of the RCN and RCAF. His report was not very favourable received. If he becomes defence minister he will likely try to implement it.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novasco...ws-for-halifax
I think because of this he'll pick someone else like Bill Blair as Defence minister and let Leslie be minister of public safety
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  #257  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 5:32 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
The loonie is continuing to decline... I'm mildly annoyed.

Looks like the markets aren't that thrilled by the idea of huge deficits and spending after all.
Shocking.
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  #258  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 5:52 PM
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Shocking.
More like a bunch of crybabies who take their balls and go home when they don't get their way. Just like with the NDP government in Alberta, everyone is dead set on making it a failure before they even do anything. They'll only end up hurting themselves.
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  #259  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 6:20 PM
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More like a bunch of crybabies who take their balls and go home when they don't get their way. Just like with the NDP government in Alberta, everyone is dead set on making it a failure before they even do anything. They'll only end up hurting themselves.
Who's a crybaby? I've said ever since Trudeau announced that he would intentionally run multi-billion deficits during relatively stable times that it would likely have an adverse effect on the markets.
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  #260  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 6:36 PM
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Shocking.
Funny you didn't complain when the C$ declined under Harper's watch



I guess it's OK when a Conservative does it?
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