GO/VIA Transit

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The RER program has hourly express trains operating all day to Hamilton Centre GO. Not really sure what is involved in getting that though. RER's "completion" date is 2025, so 8 years out, but it could come earlier than that.

Hoping for sooner than 8 years, maybe 6 could work? Would love to just hop on the train in the morning and at night to go back home.

I find with the bus, you might as well just drive if you can.

[drpgq]

I think later than 8 years is the way to bet.

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by drpgq

I think later than 8 years is the way to bet.

True

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by hamilton23

Hoping for sooner than 8 years, maybe 6 could work? Would love to just hop on the train in the morning and at night to go back home.

Hamilton Spectator, Dec 18, 2008:

Long given the cold shoulder for commuter rail service, Hamilton residents will have Toronto-bound GO trains to hop on every 15 minutes in rush hour and every 30 minutes the rest of the day as early as 2013.…

Ward 2 Councillor Bob Bratina, who sits on the GO Transit board of directors, says multiple variables, such as a teetering economy that could see fewer commuters heading to work, make specific timelines difficult to nail down.

"It may be a little soon, it's hard to say, but I would say that's a good working date," he said of the 2013 timeline.

Originally Posted by drpgq

I think later than 8 years is the way to bet.

[drpgq]

Maybe Bratina was on to something when he wanted to focus on getting additional GO service out of the province rather than LRT (although I personally think LRT is way more important). The province just doesn't seem to care about actually increasing service. Shiny new white elephant buildings they will do.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by drpgq

Maybe Bratina was on to something when he wanted to focus on getting additional GO service out of the province rather than LRT (although I personally think LRT is way more important). The province just doesn't seem to care about actually increasing service. Shiny new white elephant buildings they will do.

CHCH, Feb 28 2014:

[Transportation minister Glen] Murray says full-day GO will have to wait until the stretch of track between Hamilton and Aldershot is ready, and that could be another couple of years after the Pan Am games.

“That’s expensive. We’re talking $2 billion of investment to buy the track, upgrade the track and to get the equipment.”

Hamilton Mayor Bob Bratina who has long fought for all-day GO says he’s not disappointed with the timeline.

“I know there will be all day GO service and service will be extended to Stoney Creek and on into the peninsula. There’s no question about that. It’s in the long term plans of GO.”

Electric or otherwise, heavy rail is expensive to operate, so ultimately, the only real leverage Hamilton has in terms of expediting RER service is ridership volume. And that's never been especially compelling. During the Bratina mayoralty, GO Transit's forecast ridership (2031) for Hamilton's three stations was 900, compared to 7500+ for Burlington's three stations.

Part of Burlington's GO Transit dynamic is that a lot of commuters work west of Burlington, and huge parking facilities at those stations (on average, 2,500+ spaces per) are converting those commuters from auto drivers to train passengers: In 2011/2012, two-thirds of Burlington's ridership share was auto drivers, versus 7% of ridership at Hamilton GO Centre.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Has the topic of Hamilton and trains ever not been a complicated issue? I blame Sir Allan MacNab...

[Jake Potter]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

Has the topic of Hamilton and trains ever not been a complicated issue? I blame Sir Allan MacNab...

lol true enough

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

CHCH, Feb 28 2014:




Electric or otherwise, heavy rail is expensive to operate, so ultimately, the only real leverage Hamilton has in terms of expediting RER service is ridership volume. And that's never been especially compelling. During the Bratina mayoralty, GO Transit's forecast ridership (2031) for Hamilton's three stations was 900, compared to 7500+ for Burlington's three stations.

Part of Burlington's GO Transit dynamic is that a lot of commuters work west of Burlington, and huge parking facilities at those stations (on average, 2,500+ spaces per) are converting those commuters from auto drivers to train passengers: In 2011/2012, two-thirds of Burlington's ridership share was auto drivers, versus 7% of ridership at Hamilton GO Centre.

I think Metrolinx hasn't started taking Hamilton serious enough yet. Yeah, I know we got the LRT coming from Metrolinx, but to have two functional GO Stations downtown and no all day train service to and from Toronto is just dumb.

[movingtohamilton]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

Electric or otherwise, heavy rail is expensive to operate, so ultimately, the only real leverage Hamilton has in terms of expediting RER service is ridership volume. And that's never been especially compelling. ...

Part of Burlington's GO Transit dynamic is that a lot of commuters work west of Burlington, and huge parking facilities at those stations (on average, 2,500+ spaces per) are converting those commuters from auto drivers to train passengers..

The fact that Hamilton has a GO station in the core of the city surely can be leveraged into even higher passenger volumes. Hunter station and Union station aren't providing, and can't provide, huge parking facilities to commuters. Montreal's Gare Centrale has a huge commuter focus, yet has no parking.

Congestion along the 403/QEW corridor is horrendous. Reliable and frequent GO service will help reduce single-occupant vehicle traffic.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by movingtohamilton

The fact that Hamilton has a GO station in the core of the city surely can be leveraged into even higher passenger volumes. Hunter station and Union station aren't providing, and can't provide, huge parking facilities to commuters. Montreal's Gare Centrale has a huge commuter focus, yet has no parking.

Instead, Toronto and Montreal have exemplary rapid transit connections interlined with their regional transit hubs. IIRC, Hamilton has connections to four HSR routes. But even Toronto only really started maximizing Union in the last 15 years (when GO Buses migrated from the Elizabeth Street terminal) so there's ample precedent for leveraging latent potential.

If commuters from other cities on the Lakeshore West line are travelling into the heart of Hamilton for work in huge numbers and using GO Transit to do so, that will help build the case for enhanced rail service. Outbound commuters are unlikely to get us there. As of 2011, 44% of Burlington’s workforce was employed in Burlington. 70% of Hamilton’s workforce was employed in Hamilton, and another 12% employed in Burlington. Roughly 22,000 commuters were heading from Hamilton to work in Mississauga, Oakville, Toronto and Brampton; it's not hard to imagine that those whose workplace is located in transit-supportive environs have already been converted to GO. Compounding the challenge As of 2011, under 10% of Hamilton’s workforce used transit to get to work , less than half the level of Montreal or Toronto (22% & 23% respectively). And some of those users may find GO Buses more convenient. (I would be interested to see how Hamilton's daily rail ridership compares to boardings on the 407 West bus, for example.)

Originally Posted by movingtohamilton

Congestion along the 403/QEW corridor is horrendous. Reliable and frequent GO service will help reduce single-occupant vehicle traffic.

Aldershot GO, which is optimized for highway access, has a lot of potential in this regard. Metrolinx's RER forecast scenarios for the Hamilton CMA, which assign Aldershot 3-4 times the service levels of Hamilton GO Centre at full build, seem destined to enhance that station's appeal.

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by movingtohamilton

The fact that Hamilton has a GO station in the core of the city surely can be leveraged into even higher passenger volumes. Hunter station and Union station aren't providing, and can't provide, huge parking facilities to commuters. Montreal's Gare Centrale has a huge commuter focus, yet has no parking.

Congestion along the 403/QEW corridor is horrendous. Reliable and frequent GO service will help reduce single-occupant vehicle traffic.

So true

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Is there a list of current ridership numbers from all GO stations in Ontario? I'm curious about the numbers.

Rail ridership is detailed in Metrolinx's GO Rail Station Access Plan (Final Report, Dec 12 2016), with current rail ridership information based on GO rail cordon count information from Spring 2016.

Here's a snapshot of Lakeshore West numbers:

Daily Riders’ Home Station (2016)

West Harbour GO: 50
Hamilton GO Centre: 500
Aldershot GO: 2,025
Burlington GO: 2,725
Appleby GO: 3,375
Bronte GO: 3,850
Oakville GO: 5,950
Clarkson GO: 5,150
Port Credit GO: 2,425
Long Branch GO: 1,000
Mimico GO: 1,275
Exhibition GO: 425

The same document covers Anticipated GO Rail Service Levels as well as 2031 Daily Forecasts for GO Rail Riders' Home and Destination stations.

[drpgq]

Wow West Harbour's numbers are pretty poor, although with no density around it, it isn't surprising. Hunter isn't bad, but at the end of the day, that's a long commute.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by drpgq

Wow West Harbour's numbers are pretty poor, although with no density around it, it isn't surprising. Hunter isn't bad, but at the end of the day, that's a long commute.

Having a local "market" is one thing... also helps to have the service though. And to be well connected to local transit.

With most RER trains planned for the downtown station, I think it will take some fiddling along the Hamilton CN corridor once the Confederation station is built (and stations into Niagara) before Mlx knows how to best balance the schedules and maximize the complementary services.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Having a local "market" is one thing... also helps to have the service though. And to be well connected to local transit.

With most RER trains planned for the downtown station, I think it will take some fiddling along the Hamilton CN corridor once the Confederation station is built (and stations into Niagara) before Mlx knows how to best balance the schedules and maximize the complementary services.

In the case of local RER service, Metrolinx’s modelling assumes that by the 2031 planning horizon, roughly as many rail commuters will be heading into Hamilton GO as out of it.

Daily Riders’ Home Station (2031)
West Harbour GO: Very Low (1,000 or less)
Hamilton GO: Low (1,001-2,000)

Daily Riders’ Destination Station (2031)
West Harbour GO: Low (51- 250)
Hamilton GO: High (1,000-2,000)

Should that assumption (presumably predicated on a substantial uptick in commute-worthy employment) fail to materialize, projected service enhancements will likely follow suit, since trains and cars are added as demand grows.

Just as significantly, if compelling local transit synergies don't support these stations — which they should since these are, lest we forget, identified as Mobility Hubs — it will be that much more challenging to convert auto commuters to transit users, ridership numbers will stagnate, and service enhancements will be a hard sell.

[movingtohamilton]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

...

Aldershot GO, which is optimized for highway access, has a lot of potential in this regard. Metrolinx's RER forecast scenarios for the Hamilton CMA, which assign Aldershot 3-4 times the service levels of Hamilton GO Centre at full build, seem destined to enhance that station's appeal.

Anecdotally, I'm on packed #18 buses to Aldershot, rush-hour mornings.

I'd like to know the percentage of Hamilton-derived passengers that make up total train ridership from Aldershot. Perhaps the Aldershot departure data is somewhat skewed, given that not all passengers originate at that station.

I wonder if PRESTO has aggregate data on this?

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by movingtohamilton

Anecdotally, I'm on packed #18 buses to Aldershot, rush-hour mornings.

I'd like to know the percentage of Hamilton-derived passengers that make up total train ridership from Aldershot. Perhaps the Aldershot departure data is somewhat skewed, given that not all passengers originate at that station.

This is another dynamic at play, and it would be interesting to know what the ridership is outside of weekday rush hours.

I assume that Metrolinx would retire the 18 in order to convert bus ridership to rail, as they have done in Markham. That would presumably be built into their ridership projections.

[movingtohamilton]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

This is another dynamic at play, and it would be interesting to know what the ridership is outside of weekday rush hours.

I assume that Metrolinx would retire the 18 in order to convert bus ridership to rail, as they have done in Markham. That would presumably be built into their ridership projections.

I imagine the phasing out of the 18 is years away. We need all-day train service from Hamilton, so that passengers can access all-stops service to Union.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by movingtohamilton

I imagine the phasing out of the 18 is years away. We need all-day train service from Hamilton, so that passengers can access all-stops service to Union.

By 2031, all-day RER service to Aldershot is projected to run every 15 minutes and all-day RER to Hamilton GO is forecast to run once an hour. Hamilton passengers will continue to have options.