CF Pacific Centre Developments

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

No debate there, hehe.

But yes, when I say building an office tower by that I mean to build a podium the same size as the current Sears building for retail and some office, and then an office tower on top of that.

But, that is just my ultimate dream for the site, I did like the idea another forum member posted on here saying it would be nice for the bottom few levels of the Sears building to become an expansion of Pacific Centre and have the top 2 floors Nordstrom or another major anchor tenant.

That's what I would like to see too. The new tower would presumably occupy the SW end of the podium (Robson & Howe) or at least presumably be oriented there (or would it be better square onto Robson? Ideas, please)

And while keeping the TD building rather at the other end, this new tower could be a real signature tower; part of the definition of the city centre, hopefully tall (600 ft+ ?) and very sensitive to its architectural context and immediate surroundings, and very elegant.

[yogiderek]

If only our city council had the brains back in the 50's too not tear down the second Hotel Vancouver on this site. Then we wouldnt' be having this discussion at all. Because that spectacular building would of been designated heritage and still be standing as probably one of the best hotels in the city. If Eatons had just decided to stay back in their original building still standing where SFU had been. Also, we would still have an opera house which was oriented more towards Robson and Granville. all the what ifs.

[agrant]

I'm hopeful this building gets a nice overhaul. Yea, lots of wasted space on the roof, as others have pointed out. I've always imagined a green roof, or at least partially green. If the exterior is changed, I don't just want to see the white panels exchanged for glass. Wouldn't mind seeing a significant artistic touch. The location deserves something special.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

The Westons, owners of Holt Renfrew, also own Selfridges.

Ron.

And Fortnum & Masons. Makes you wonder why Canadian department stores are so dire, if Canadians own so many flash UK ones.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by officedweller

There used to be tennis courts on top of the 777 Dunsmuir podium (Pacific Centre atrium) before the Holt Renfrew renovation - unless there's still one there?

The courts are still on top of 777 Dunsmuir, don't know how well they are used though.

Originally Posted by Prometheus

I believe the idea is to build a tower in addition to a podium equal in size to the current structure (maybe even build a tower without destroying the current building). What is more economically viable? What is there now? Or what is there now plus a tower?

Well its not as straight an answer as it seems off the outset. There would need to be an incredible amount of work to shoot a core of a new tower through the existing structure and parking, not to mention what a new tower/density would do to the parking requirements of the site. And this is all assuming the city would even grant CF additional density to make a project like that viable.

Given the extra time and capital involved it is quite likely that adding density could in fact lower the overall project return.

Another issue is the timing, as currently there are 3+ office towers all slated for occupancy around 2015, adding another to the mix, especially one as large as you guys are hoping for, would be very risky and likely drive rents down, further diminishing returns.

Time will tell what shakes out, but as of right now it doesn't seem like the most viable option.

All I can guarantee right now is that what will replace Sears will be worlds better than what is there right now. The city wont allow a half assed redevelopment on this site and CF isn't looking to half ass one of their crown jewel assets.

[NewWester]

Thanks Leftcoaster for the info. Some of us appreciate the sober reality of the situation .

[Darren Tate]

Originally Posted by NewWester

Thanks Leftcoaster for the info. Some of us appreciate the sober reality of the situation .

Agreed. Tower-obsessed folks need a reality check. A new retailer and a refreshed exterior is already more than we could have hoped for—besides, I'm sure CF is eager to secure a new tenant to ensure continued revenue from that property.

[Tri-City Guy]

Macy's would likely be a 'better fit' in Canada as we tend to be more conservative with our money. Nordstrom would be a nice "swish" addition but perhaps not for Holt Renfrew nor for Vancouverite's who already put ....(what seems like) half their earnings towards a roof over their head.....even the ones making 60,000 - 100,000. Disposable income is higher in Calgary, Edmonton or Toronto than Vancouver - even KW has a much higher disposable income but the IT sector no doubt is behind that.

Anyway, everytime I go down to Seattle I always look at Nordstrom (its an attractive store to be fair but I only earn $70,000 a year so I have to be realistic and not stupid) but usually go next door to Macy's ...........where I can generally get the same product for less. Anyway, Macy's need not be a fiscally conservative store. eg. Macy's Philly.......has anyone seen the Kim Cattrall movie called Mannequin? That Macy's store is 'piss elegant' to say the very least - probably the grandest in the USA.

For better or worse, Canadian's are a conservative lot when it comes to throwing around money. We won't quality for LESS .....not a fancy bag!!! We're cheap bastards plain and simple. When it comes to retail Vancourites are akin to stations on the Canada Line - simple, plain and effective - nothing too flash. I do have a friend who saves her old MAC and lululemon bags......she finds them a comfort when she heads off for Zellers Brentwood........even though in her heart of hearts she's a Holt Renfrew Girl.

As for Diamaru - great store (prefer to the SOGO chain personally), great products but something tells me Vancouver (despite its high Asian populace) would be more of a MELBOURNE CENTRAL affair. Hugh swish store with cheap bastards merely having a STICKY BEAK inside......those big flash department stores unfortunately have to make money to look the part. God forbid Walmart goes in. The 'fringe dweller chain' recently announced plans for Canada's first urban Walmart......in Waterloo so perhaps they are ready to do a Petula Clark in YVR.

At the end of the day whatever goes into Pacific Centre ....needs to be viable ($$) and something needs to be done with the "tiolet blocks" appearance......and let's be real - the Pacific Centre is a tiolet block a la ARNDALE CENTRE MANCHESTER. We need to do what Manchester did post IRA explosion - GLASS THE UGLY BITCH UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is Vancouver......not a men's urinal circa 1974. So unless George Michael has plans for the place - my personal priority is RENO ASAP.

[dleung]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Big big news coming to Vancouver some time in the next week or two. Will share as soon as it becomes public.

I seriously hope this isn't the big news you were referring to. I could care less if London Drugs became a Nordstrom.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by Tri-City Guy

Macy's would likely be a 'better fit' in Canada as we tend to be more conservative with our money. Nordstrom would be a nice "swish" addition but perhaps not for Holt Renfrew nor for Vancouverite's who already put ....(what seems like) half their earnings towards a roof over their head.....even the ones making 60,000 - 100,000. Disposable income is higher in Calgary, Edmonton or Toronto than Vancouver - even KW has a much higher disposable income but the IT sector no doubt is behind that.

Have you ever been inside Holt Renfrew? Canadians are not their market. That whole shopping district is aimed at obscenely rich asian immigrants and tourists, like it or not.

[EastVanMark]

The footprint of the building should remain the same. As someone pointed out earlier, they should add 2 more floors on top of the existing structure, create an interior atrium complete with escalator bank going all the way up and have 2 large scale stores stacked on top of each other as they are in the Westfield shopping center in San Francisco. Meanwhile, make the basement an extension of the mall portion of Pacific Centre with two floor or split level stores with access to Granville street on the east side of the building much like Eaton Centre in Toronto. That would greatly enhance the property in terms of stores offered, not to mention greatly improving the street environment on the Granville side. (which currently is completely lifeless seeing it just consists of a giant white[ish] wall). Now add some significant lighting, some larger windows, perhaps a large screen and you've turned a bland, outdated space into a jewel of downtown and one of the best shopping experiences in all of Canada

[Locked In]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

The courts are still on top of 777 Dunsmuir, don't know how well they are used though.

I have some colleagues who were out playing tennis there a bunch last summer... though I get the sense that the roof gets the most use (definitely year-round) as the building's smoke pit.

[Darren Tate]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Have you ever been inside Holt Renfrew? Canadians are not their market. That whole shopping district is aimed at obscenely rich asian immigrants and tourists, like it or not.

Exactly, that's why the Bay can get away with going upscale and why Nordstrom wants a piece of the action. Louis freaking Vuitton has a flagship store here. Hell, Barney's New York should set up shop here. I'm sure there's room for a few more uppity department stores—you won't find me shopping in any of them though.

[LeftCoaster]

Vancouver is quite possibly the strongest retail market in the country so I'd imagine Nordstroms and many other retailers will do quite well.

Just as an example Pacific Centre has the highest CRU sales per square foot of any mall in Canada and I believe it is top 5 in North America.

Originally Posted by dleung

I seriously hope this isn't the big news you were referring to. I could care less if London Drugs became a Nordstrom.

Well I'm very sorry I couldn't impress you Dleung, but yes the Sears buyout was what I was referring to, as I have mentioned more than once.

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Vancouver is quite possibly the strongest retail market in the country so I'd imagine Nordstroms and many other retailers will do quite well.

Metro Vancouver is not. Downtown? Perhaps, in certain areas.

Edmonton is actually the strongest retail market in the country.

[s211]

Originally Posted by wrenegade

Metro Vancouver is not. Downtown? Perhaps, in certain areas.

Edmonton is actually the strongest retail market in the country.

I think we need to know reference points for comparison. Someone could be talking sales/sf at malls, another talking sales/capita.

[wrenegade]

Leftcoaster mentioned "strongest markert" so I took that to mean sales per capita. Sales PSF is much more difficult to discern on a market-wide basis as different malls in the same city can be so different for a whole host of reasons. I'm sure Pacific Centre is way up there in Canada on a sales psf basis, but I can't imagine Haney Place Mall does all that well.

[officedweller]

As an aside, for the tower obsessed, any reason that 777 Dunsmuir (at the other end pf Pacific Centre) was modelled at a taller height in the context model for the Hudson condo (way back). Can it be vertically expanded?

http://www.modelshop.bc.ca/porty2/fi...031/7031-4.htm

[Van23H]

I posted this article a couple months ago....

"I read this interesting article talking about the top 5 performing malls in canada and can't help but thinking its wrong. But here are the results for 2010!

"The top five malls in Canada ranked in order by sales-per-square-foot are: Pacific Centre in Vancouver at $1,255 per square foot; Yorkdale Shopping Centre in Toronto at $1,194 per square foot; Oakridge Centre in Vancouver at $960 per square foot; Sherway Gardens in Toronto at $885 per square foot; and Chinook Centre in Calgary at $882 per square foot."

http://www.kpmg.com/Ca/en/IssuesAndI...2011-01-02.pdf

surprising to see Vancouver take first and third place!"

Vancouver can absolutely support another high end department store.

[s211]

Originally Posted by officedweller

As an aside, for the tower obsessed, any reason that 777 Dunsmuir (at the other end pf Pacific Centre) was modelled at a taller height in the context model for the Hudson condo (way back). Can it be vertically expanded?

http://www.modelshop.bc.ca/porty2/fi...031/7031-4.htm

I seen lots of model errors with respect to surrouding buildings. Good eye, though.

Don't think it's anything more than that.