Multiculturalism in Canada

[dleung]

Originally Posted by OutOfTowner

Oh Dleung, you're such an asshole!

Perhaps you should get layed sometime? Even if you have to pay for it.

Someone's triggered

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ontario's school structure is a bit hard to follow sometimes. Even within the same school board in one area you might have an "elementary" school to goes from JK to grande 8. And then high school for that zone starts in grade 9.

And in the very same board 3 km away elementary is JK to 6, and then high school is 7 to 12.

It's very arbitrary though I think they are moving to a greater standardization of things now. At least within boards.

It gets even more varied than that. Sometimes even within the same high school feeder zone it's different.

My high school had two feeder elementary schools. One (mine) was K-8, the other was K-6. So at my high school, half the students started attending the high school in Grade 7 and then the other half started in Grade 9.

In any case, the curriculum is always the same in the entire province: "elementary" is K-8 and "secondary" is 9-12. It's which grades are physically housed in which buildings that changes from board to board and from town to town.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I can't stand this idea that cities should strive to be multicultural to pacify Ottawa mandarins, look good on the stats chart, or somehow are less interesting because they are not. Victoria, Quebec, London, and Kingston aren't exactly multicultural meccas but are consistently rated as having the highest quality of life and lowest crime rates. All are vibrant, beautiful, and very liveable cities yet most of their respective populations are as white as the undriven snow.

London is a lot more multicultural now than it was when I was growing up. It was as white as snow as recently as 2000, but it suddenly became a major destination for Colombian and other Latin American immigrants. I believe it was in the 2011 Census that London had the 3rd largest concentration of Latin Americans in Canada among CMAs (after Toronto and Montreal). The city's Middle Eastern community, as I recall, also increased dramatically during the early 2000s.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I was familiarized with pierogies while living in Ontario in my younger days. I have no idea how commonly known they are in Quebec, though Gatineau's Costco does have them.

Even in Ontario they are associated with Ukraine. Though later in life I had a Polish friend and when they served us pierogies, silly me I said "oh, so you guys eat pierogies too". And he said "pierogies aren't just Ukrainian, and anyway... borders and nationalities in that part of the world... let's just say... it's complicated".

Oddly enough I always thought of pierogies as a Polish dish, but that was likely due to my partially Polish ethnicity and being around a lot of Polish people for a large part of my life. I didn't even know they were also a Ukrainian dish until I went to a farmers market in Kingston that had a Ukrainian food stand, and they were serving pierogies and cabbage rolls.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Oddly enough I always thought of pierogies as a Polish dish, but that was likely due to my partially Polish ethnicity and being around a lot of Polish people for a large part of my life. I didn't even know they were also a Ukrainian dish until I went to a farmers market in Kingston that had a Ukrainian food stand, and they were serving pierogies and cabbage rolls.

There are quite a few people in Timmins that have Polish or Ukrainian backgrounds so pierogies and cabbage rolls are quite popular here.

I have had them in Quebec before. It was probably in either Rouyn-Noranda or Val-d'Or. Most of the mining communities in Northern Ontario and Northwestern Quebec had immigrants from both Poland and the Ukraine in the early days.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

London is a lot more multicultural now than it was when I was growing up. It was as white as snow as recently as 2000, but it suddenly became a major destination for Colombian and other Latin American immigrants. I believe it was in the 2011 Census that London had the 3rd largest concentration of Latin Americans in Canada among CMAs (after Toronto and Montreal). The city's Middle Eastern community, as I recall, also increased dramatically during the early 2000s.

That's very true. I've even hear London jokingly referred to as "Colondia". I know all cities are changing in their ethnic makeup but there is no doubt that many, like London, remain primarily the same ethnic make-up it was founded upon.

What I can't stand is how cities that are multicultural automatically seems to be referred to as a good thing. It can add flavour to a city but also increase racial, ethnic, class, and ideological differences that often result in segregation instead of inclusion.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Thanks for that! Sad that I never heard about him.
Just checked his Wiki page, father was a shopkeeper, they likely left Dunrea in the late 50's early 60's as the small towns started their decline. There are no other Lavoies in the district.

For a relatively small community (50k approx.), Manitoba has produced a disproportionate number of Canadian francophone greats. Probably moreso than any other province except Quebec and New Brunswick.

There is Daniel Lavoie, but also Gabrielle Roy, one of French Canada's greatest writers. She has a ton of stuff named for her in Quebec, including Quebec City's main central library branch. The main campus of the community college (CEGEP) here in Gatineau is also named for Gabrielle Roy.

The longtime classic "voice of Radio-Canada", Henri Bergeron, was also from Manitoba.

And of course there is Louis Riel.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Acajack

For a relatively small community (50k approx.), Manitoba has produced a disproportionate number of Canadian francophone greats. Probably moreso than any other province except Quebec and New Brunswick.

There is Daniel Lavoie, but also Gabrielle Roy, one of French Canada's greatest writers. She has a ton of stuff named for her in Quebec, including Quebec City's main central library branch. The main campus of the community college (CEGEP) here in Gatineau is also named for Gabrielle Roy.

The longtime classic "voice of Radio-Canada", Henri Bergeron, was also from Manitoba.

And of course there is Louis Riel.

Also Gisele MacKenzie. I would imagine she was by far the most famous French-Canadian entertainer across North America in the 50s. Her real name was LaFleche.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Also Gisele MacKenzie. I would imagine she was by far the most famous French-Canadian entertainer across North America in the 50s. Her real name was LaFleche.

That's interesting. I've never heard of her. I don't believe she's well-known in francophone circles - she doesn't have a French Wikipedia entry, for example.

The things we learn on SSP Canada!

[BretttheRiderFan]

Jonathan Toews could also be considered in that group. Raised in a bilingual Winnipeg household.

[Acajack]

Another one is country singer Lucille Starr. From St-Boniface. She's more well known as an artist in anglophone circles, but her best known song AFAIK is in French and known to most everyone in Quebec. The original title is "The French Song" but in Quebec it's known as Quand le soleil dit bonjour aux montagnes. I betcha one in 100 people in Quebec couldn't tell you it's by Lucille Starr, though.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Another one is country singer Lucille Starr. From St-Boniface. She's more well known as an artist in anglophone circles, but her best known song AFAIK is in French and known to most everyone in Quebec. The original title is "The French Song" but in Quebec it's known as Quand le soleil dit bonjour aux montagnes. I betcha one in 100 people in Quebec couldn't tell you it's by Lucille Starr, though.

I doubt she's that well remembered anywhere these days. Perhaps more in Quebec than Manitoba. I don't think I even knew she was a Winnipegger. Everyone used to know that song though.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Acajack

For a relatively small community (50k approx.), Manitoba has produced a disproportionate number of Canadian francophone greats. Probably moreso than any other province except Quebec and New Brunswick.

There is Daniel Lavoie, but also Gabrielle Roy, one of French Canada's greatest writers. She has a ton of stuff named for her in Quebec, including Quebec City's main central library branch. The main campus of the community college (CEGEP) here in Gatineau is also named for Gabrielle Roy.

The longtime classic "voice of Radio-Canada", Henri Bergeron, was also from Manitoba.

And of course there is Louis Riel.

We always liked to listen to Ray St Germain who has endured as a local Manitoban artist to this day.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

We always liked to listen to Ray St Germain who has endured as a local Manitoban artist to this day.

So talented. Hard to imagine a Manitoba without him.

And then there were Gerry and Ziz, the local francophone act that got a national (I think) CBC variety show at one point. Nice story here from 2010:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/our...111465884.html

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

We always liked to listen to Ray St Germain who has endured as a local Manitoban artist to this day.

Never heard of him...

[Andy6]

Reading Ray's website, it says that he toured with another legendary French Canadian (via Maine) musician who emerged out of the Winnipeg music scene of the late 50s -- Lenny Breau.

http://www.raystgermainmusic.com/bio.php

Just watching his sample video on his site again, a lot of which is him hamming it up with impressions of other singers -- he's just such a great entertainer:
http://www.raystgermainmusic.com/video_epk.php

[OutOfTowner]

So, I visited friends in 'A World Class Canadian City' during the holidays and I met up with an old friend. She's great - don't get me wrong - but she's one of those ethnicity/nationality, name-dropping multicultarists: "Ooh, we have to go to the Portuguese bakery next to the Jamaican place and we really should go to the Bangladeshi place because my Croatian neighbour and the Azerbaijani guy at work goes there too. Ooh, and tomorrow we can to this little Maltese place where I know the Spanish waiter..

You know.

Then you go to the dinner party, with all the lily-white friends (there may be a Canadian Asian - sole tribute to multiculturalism) where everybody talks about real estate and daycare and 'good schools' .. and of course, they all rave about the latest Bolivian/Icelandic fusion place around the corner from the Nepalese Yakball joint..

Thing is, few of them can count any of these nationalities as their friends. Few of them can find any of these countries on a map - let alone know aything about said countries. Speak another language? lol!

Multiculturalism in Canada is farce. We import people to take our shit jobs and then pretend that we're generous, accepting, open to all..!

Bullshit. Germany took in over a million refugees yet we're still patting ourselves on the back for taking in 50,000? "Oh we're so wonderful! So Canadian! We're so nice! So many new taxi drivers!"

Canadians love multiculturalism because it hides the fact that we have no culture to speak of - other than Costco, Walmart, MacDonalds, Starbucks, Netflix, etc.. Immigrants are still treated like shit here - look at the numbers - but being the smug-ass pricks that we love to be, we think we're so superior. We're so nice!

We're assholes, but we're such polite assholes that, why wouldn't you prefer to trade your PHD in to be a floor washer here? After all, we're so multicultural!

And of course, whatever happens, we're sorry!

Sorry

And it's so great to be known as a nation of sorry sayers. "Oh, you punched me in the face? Sorry! Sorry that my face got in the way of your fist. Sorry!

That's just awesome but.. we're multicultural!

Sorry!

[Marshal]

Ha! That was very funny.

I have never met anyone like that - even if you reduce the exaggeration.

And: I find 'culture' all over the place. The problem with this kind of complaining is that it itself is focused on the superficial.

There is almost always more depth to almost all people. And, humans in general, produce culture as a matter of course. They can't help it, that's what they are designed to do.

So, if you can't find it, chances are you are looking incorrectly, or are only looking the way you are used to.

What's not funny, is this boring old shit about Canada being a cultural wasteland. You need to connect in a new way. Be it architecture, literature, philosophy, painting, theatre, dance, food, industrial design, graphics, political discourse, wine, beer, sport, participatory sport (mtn biking, cycling, climbing, running, sailing, kayaking, etc.), film, cultural theory, theoretical physics, gardening/landscape, cultural discourse, writing (so many kinds), internet connection . . . that's enough, I find our culture all around me - in the people and the environment. And then, mix in different sexual, ethnic, and age experiences of all these things and, well, its way more than enough.

Now I am lucky to live a certain life amongst certain people, but that is barely relevant. The most normal, average people I know possess plenty of culture. You just have to scratch through the veneer that seems to have you stumped.

But, like I said: very funny stuff.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Reading Ray's website, it says that he toured with another legendary French Canadian (via Maine) musician who emerged out of the Winnipeg music scene of the late 50s -- Lenny Breau.

http://www.raystgermainmusic.com/bio.php

Just watching his sample video on his site again, a lot of which is him hamming it up with impressions of other singers -- he's just such a great entertainer:
http://www.raystgermainmusic.com/video_epk.php

I've heard of Lenny Breau, but I thought he was a stand-up comic, not a singer. Never heard of Gerry and Ziz.

It's a good bet that if I've never heard of this stuff from outside Quebec, that people in Quebec are even less likely to.

A lot of the crossover or mixed francophone-anglophone stuff from outside Quebec doesn't seem to make it into Quebec. (Though Quebec produces quite a bit of its own crossover stuff of this type.)

Another one that people identify with francophone culture is the character Lucien, who is popular in the anglophone Maritimes and with CBC types. He's largely unknown to francophones most anywhere in the country. The actor is from NB but even my Acadian relatives there don't know him.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Marshal

Ha! That was very funny.

I have never met anyone like that - even if you reduce the exaggeration.

And: I find 'culture' all over the place. The problem with this kind of complaining is that it itself is focused on the superficial.

There is almost always more depth to almost all people. And, humans in general, produce culture as a matter of course. They can't help it, that's what they are designed to do.

So, if you can't find it, chances are you are looking incorrectly, or are only looking the way you are used to.

What's not funny, is this boring old shit about Canada being a cultural wasteland. You need to connect in a new way. Be it architecture, literature, philosophy, painting, theatre, dance, food, industrial design, graphics, political discourse, wine, beer, sport, participatory sport (mtn biking, cycling, climbing, running, sailing, kayaking, etc.), film, cultural theory, theoretical physics, gardening/landscape, cultural discourse, writing (so many kinds), internet connection . . . that's enough, I find our culture all around me - in the people and the environment. And then, mix in different sexual, ethnic, and age experiences of all these things and, well, its way more than enough.

Now I am lucky to live a certain life amongst certain people, but that is barely relevant. The most normal, average people I know possess plenty of culture. You just have to scratch through the veneer that seems to have you stumped.

But, like I said: very funny stuff.

OutOfTowner is about as subtle as getting hit by a bus, but there is a shred of truth to what he says.

In any event, it's always a good thing to be self-aware and even a bit of good old self-doubt can be healthy.

This applies to societies as much as it does to individuals.