Calgary Railtown: Right Place for a New Ballpark?

[Innersoul1]

Urban diversification would be a good thing.....

....how bout a stadium built over the CPR tracks like the Original whitecaps design in Vancouver?

[Beltliner]

Originally Posted by walli

Of course, sites such as Firepark and the GSL lands also would provide existing or planned direct access to LRT, and central / accessible locations.

The part many of the McMahon supports fail to highlight is the limited events that are hosted there, precisely because of the facility limitations or the location. Think of concerts and various international events. How many days out of the year is McMahon used? How does that compare to, lets say, Commonwealth? What use is tailgate space when you only use the darn thing a dozen times a year?

The main reason they first ploughed under the grass at McMahon for artificial turf in the 70s was that a natural surface couldn't take the pounding from the Stampeders, Dinos football and soccer, Colts junior football, and various and sundry other high-school and recreational uses for football, soccer, field hockey, and other events. Usage at McMahon is not the problem. The Banff Trail and University Heights community leagues make it difficult at best for stadium rock acts like Disaster Area to use it as a concert venue (though given the hue and cry surrounding the 1970 Festival Express, they might have a case), but anyone seriously advocating relocating the Stamps to the back of beyond on the grounds that McMahon Stadium is underutilised is going to have to make a substantially stronger case than I've seen so far.

[Beltliner]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

Urban diversification would be a good thing.....

....how bout a stadium built over the CPR tracks like the Original whitecaps design in Vancouver?

Could work as part of an overall redevelopment of the +30 space above the tracks, if it were scalable and if the superstructure could stand the strain. Bonus points if you could make it work over 11 Street SW, if for no other reason than it might actually trigger a grade separation there....

[Innersoul1]

I think that it would be a pretty complex undertaking but the final prodect could be soo cool! I love downtown stadia.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by Beltliner

The GSL Chev City dealership is what's sitting smack in the middle of the West Park concept area from the Centre City Plan. Just west of the Greyhound depot and across from the Sunalta LRT station.

There's no statutory provision for a pitch on that spot, but if that's where you had it in mind to put your Jamaica project, it would be a peach of a location with a great river view.

Cheers, that was the spot I had in mind!

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

Sorry for my lengthy delay in continuing this.

As many of you have pointed out, although soccer is popular at the youth level, it has yet to catch on at a professional or semi professional level across most of the country...

Here is what I would like to see as far as a SSS for Calgary:

1) Stadium Capacity of 10,000-15,000 with room for expansion
2) Tight seating (ie seating snug to the field) for an intimate feeling
3) The seating areas should be covered
4) Press boxes
5) Some luxury boxes or space for expansion for the purpose of luxury boxes.
6) A FIFA 2-Star Field Turf installation
I will go into some detail on this further on.
7) A possible partnership with the UofC Soccer program

The biggest thing is that this stadium MUST have a FIFA 2 star turf installation. Grass is just not viable in this city especially with our wonky climate. The cost to maintain such a field would be crazy. FIFA 2 star Turf is the only turf that Fifa will allow sanctioned games to be played on. It undegoes rigourous testing to meet Fifa's certification. So as pointed out, McMahon didn't opt for a field with the painted on lines possibly because of the costs to put in a true 2-star installation. CONCACAF now has 5 official 2-star installations and they are ALL in Canada (BMO Field is the newest addition).

Innsersoul, I really like some of your ideas and simply love your passion! You are spot on about the need for a SSS in Calgary. Here's what I'd like to see, let's start off with some visuals:

Nene Park
Location: Irthlingborough, UK
Capacity: 6,441





SAS Arena
Location: Herning, DK
Capacity: 12,500



Belson Park
Location: Jamaica, US
Capacity: 2,600



1. Style: Closed Square.
The park would be a mix of Nene Park (capacity and style), SAS Arena (style), and Belson Park (capacity-wise). As with any SSS the close proximity to the pitch and play is an essential element in creating that football atmosphere. The close square layout adds to that atmosphere by taking the shape of the pitch and enclosing the crowd creating a cozy park. The roof also protects spectators from the elements, you know the ones that show 10 minutes before kick-off...

2. Location: The West End (Greyhound Site Redevelopment Project)
It would be part of a mixed-use TOD development. After I finish my last group project I'll start work on a fantasy proposal.

3. Capacity: 6,000-8,500
The purpose of the stadium is to provide a home for amateur football and possibly in the future, be the starting and temporary home for semi-professional clubs. I've modelled my league system (see below) so that the amateur clubs would be similar to Football Conference clubs (Level 5-6 in the UK football pyramid) and PDL teams. Looking at the attendance of Calgary F.C. (The Storm), during the beginning phase the average attendance would be around 3,000. So with growth during the other phases local football would grow into the stadium.

4. Pitch Type/Field Surface: Natural Grass
Although I'm only 21, I'm kinda old school when it comes to footy. Why have fake grass when you can have the real stuff? Yeah, it might be expensive but without a doubt worth it! Part of the football experience is the smell of the grass. One of my fondest memories last summer was the smell of the pitch at The Valley and White Heart Lane. I think baseball fans would agree, natural grass is the shit! In addition, while type II Field Turf might be FIFA approved many top flight club teams and National Senior teams still refuse to play on it.

5. Tenants and Special Events: Premier Amateur League Clubs, Canadian National Teams' Matches & Friendlies, National & Provincial Championships, Collegiate Tournaments, Minor and Amateur League Playoffs & Cup Finals, Various Over-capacity Matches, and Semi-professional League (Future).

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

Let me conclude by saying that a Canadian soccer league is viable, just not in the near future. I think that all attempts for a domestic league have been marginal ones. Cities need to buy in, this means having SSS that can support teams and make watching the sport interesting and comfortable Pushing the focus from large markets to some of the smaller ones may be a good way of doing this but not a necessity. Team in Victoria, Vancouver, Kelowna, Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Quebec City, Halifax and St. John's would be nice (obvioiusly some more Ontario teams could be added). But this demands commitment from all the cities involved.

Sorry about all of the Spelling mistakes.=

I also agree with you that a Canadian League can be set up but only in the future. However, before we can even start thinking of a National League, major changes must occur, both regionally and nationally. First off, the game needs to be better organized so that progress can be made. For example, I've heard that Bronconcrete is interested in a new stadium but told the associations they must first get their shit together. Before we can build a pretty little park for amateur, semi-pro, or professional clubs we need a top-down restructuring. Changes would be both regional and local. I could go into great detail but I’ll skip the minor and youth leagues and talk briefly about the senior league structure.

The structure for senior league football, players aged 18 and over, would comprise of both regional amateur leagues and local Sunday leagues. For the latter, CUSA and CWSA could still operate but without the Premier and Major leagues, these would become part of the Amateur league structure. The Amateur league structure would have three levels, Premier (Inter-Regional), Conference (Regional), and District (Local).

The Premier level (Step One) would be the clubs that playing out of the SSSs and would attract the most spectators. Calgary would have two clubs and they would be the major tenants of the new park. This would be the league for skilled players that don’t make it to Europe and need a place to stay and play. It would give them a league where they could develop their skills and possibly eventually make the jump to pro-leagues. The league would also be the home for the elite players in the regions. Over time the league would split up and one part would merge with parts of other split Inter-Regional leagues, from around the country, to form a national semi-pro league. (This is how some Premier European Leagues got their start, even part of the NHL did!)

I’d love to go on about the other two levels but it’s getting late, in addition I would also like to do some more research so I can refine my ideas, and those who ever has managed to read this far is probably getting bored. Sorry for the length post, but I did include pictures!

[Innersoul1]

Riise!!! I love what you are throwing down mate!

SAS Arena is the stadium that I had in my mind when I was thinking about all of this. It is intimate, covered and looks sleek and modern. I love the lighting standards!

I am totally with you on natural grass fields, I love the smell of the natural turf but the one thing I love the most are the amazing mow jobs that the ground guys do. My friend made a samm soccer pitch on his yard in Bearspaw his dad splurged on nice grass and we would take turn mowing it weekly and trying to out-do each other.



I really like your idea about the league system. It would seems that CUSA would act like a feeder or development league for the major and premier teams. That is brilliant. It makes soccer at the senior levels purposeful!

Mind is numb now with thoughts of stadia! MMMMMM!

On a closing note, the Home Depot Centre in California is a pretty nice stadium. It seats 27,000 so a bit large for our needs but it is well concieved and pefect for expansion








Nice mow job too!

[Innersoul1]

I spent a good chunk of time reading about the U-20 Finals being held in Canada this summer. It really is a shame that we weren't on the ball for this. It could have been a great opportunity to showcase the city to soccer fans and expose a high level of soccer to Calgarians.

I was looking at the venues that will be hosting the games:

Victoria - Royal Athletic Park OMG this place is a hole!
Burnaby -Swangard Stadium great venue
Edmonton - Commonwealth should be great when it is packed
Ottawa- Frank Clair Awesome location should be neat
Toronto -BMO Field The crown jewel?
Montreal - Stade Olympique Not happy about this one....such a borning place but I am sure the fans will be into it

So let is be said that Edmonton, Ottawa and Montreal and the marqee stadia we could have easily trumped Victoria if we had had something worthwhile.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by freeweed

The only real hit against baseball here is that the evenings are so darned cold. Show up in shorts, go home in a jacket.

Herein lies the REAL problem. In Winnipeg people hang out in the stands and it is more about the social atmosphere than it is about the baseball.

Beer and food is reasonably priced, tickets are cheap, and you get to sit out in the warm summer evenings close to downtown watching a game in a top notch ballpark.

In Calgary the summer nights are far too cold.

[walli]

Originally Posted by h0twired

Herein lies the REAL problem. In Winnipeg people hang out in the stands and it is more about the social atmosphere than it is about the baseball.

Beer and food is reasonably priced, tickets are cheap, and you get to sit out in the warm summer evenings close to downtown watching a game in a top notch ballpark.

In Calgary the summer nights are far too cold.

Heated seats?

[Innersoul1]

Skydome part deux?

[Riise]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

I really like your idea about the league system. It would seems that CUSA would act like a feeder or development league for the major and premier teams. That is brilliant. It makes soccer at the senior levels purposeful!

Mind is numb now with thoughts of stadia! MMMMMM!

On a closing note, the Home Depot Centre in California is a pretty nice stadium. It seats 27,000 so a bit large for our needs but it is well concieved and pefect for expansion...

I'm glad that you like my idea. It's the product of a little research on the football pyramids in England, Denmark, and Sweden. I'm trying to create a pyramid where teams can move between leagues/divisions and in theory make it to the top, similar to the structures in Europe. The system also needs to be able do adapt to allow the introduction of semi-pro and fully professional to the top of the pyramid. One of the problems with trying to envision a system that is structured around promotion/relegation is that cities in that type of system have multiple teams, however, in this part of North America most leagues are structured around single franchise cities. Anyway, it'll be a pet project for me this summer!

HDC is a top class facility! I only have a few complaints, the first row is set back a touch too far and a wee bit too high; and I heard they have benches as opposed to seats, wtf? Otherwise, I love the place!

[Innersoul1]

Benches just plain SUCK!