Winnipeg City Transit/Rapid Transit

[trebor204]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Not sure if it was mentioned here but a Transit Safety Station was installed on Portage right in front of The Bay. It looks like a tiny coffee vendor you'd see in Europe, not sure if it's just like a warm-up station or if someone will be there during the day?

Anyone know?

Got one on Graham and Fort in front of Tim Horton's

[Glenn99]

Originally Posted by trebor204

Got one on Graham and Fort in front of Tim Horton's

I was wondering what that was for.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Not sure if it was mentioned here but a Transit Safety Station was installed on Portage right in front of The Bay. It looks like a tiny coffee vendor you'd see in Europe, not sure if it's just like a warm-up station or if someone will be there during the day?

Anyone know?

Those are shelters for the point duty inspectors. Currently they use a Transit inspector vehicle. Waste of money, just like the point duty inspectors. Does absolutely nothing to address safety on buses.

[cllew]

It looks like then what is old is new again.

I remember when my uncle was a transit supervisor 40+ years ago they had supervisor shelters located at 3 locations that I can remember:

s/s Portage at Polo Park (as part of the old bus shelter at Tylehurst)

Portage and Main (to control the stop at Fort st. sill there as part of the barrier system but boarded up)

Broadway and Osborne (standalone long gone).

There may have been more but those I am aware of.

Back then it was not so much for safety but keeping the buses on schedule according to him when I asked him what they were for.

[trebor204]

I believe years ago, they had time clocks along some of the routes. The drivers will go out and stamp their time card.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by cllew

Back then it was not so much for safety but keeping the buses on schedule according to him when I asked him what they were for.

That's exactly what they were there for. Safety wasn't a concern.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by trebor204

I believe years ago, they had time clocks along some of the routes. The drivers will go out and stamp their time card.

Time clocks went away when the GPS based schedule adherence system was operational.

[Tyler19944]

I have a potential stupid question, Im just trying to get a figure on Winnipeg's transit because Im considering a move to Winnipeg after Im finished university, so bare with me Im new!

Regarding the current BRT that's operational, has it been successful? Is it efficient & have good ridership? BRT isn't as glamorous as LRT, but if it works as well as LRT Im perfectly content with that! Does Winnipeg have plans of converting it to LRT in the future (this is my dumb question)?

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Tyler19944

I have a potential stupid question, Im just trying to get a figure on Winnipeg's transit because Im considering a move to Winnipeg after Im finished university, so bare with me Im new!

Regarding the current BRT that's operational, has it been successful? Is it efficient & have good ridership? BRT isn't as glamorous as LRT, but if it works as well as LRT Im perfectly content with that! Does Winnipeg have plans of converting it to LRT in the future (this is my dumb question)?

Winnipeg has "the option" to convert the line to LRT in the future but I have my doubts. The BRT is a fine enough concept but it lacks many of the hallmarks of a properly functioning system. Ridership on Winnipeg transit is not bad but the system leaves a lot to be desired. For example the whole BRT line is not a fare controlled zone making loading buses painfully slow when busy. The route is also inconvenient and the stops too close together. Theres a faint hope that some day in the remote future some of these concerns may be addressed but in the meantime it isnt the world's greatest transit system. The current political leadership here completely lacks the will to do anything properly.

Edit: to be clear I dont want this to serve in any way as a deterrent to moving here. There are so many positives. One of the most frustrating things about being a winnipeger though is the constant reminder of the potential not realized. Who knows, as time goes on many of us have been pleasantly surprised by developments we never thought possible and perhaps some day the city will live up to its potential. Certainly has a ways to go.

[Tyler19944]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Winnipeg has "the option" to convert the line to LRT in the future but I have my doubts. The BRT is a fine enough concept but it lacks many of the hallmarks of a properly functioning system. Ridership on Winnipeg transit is not bad but the system leaves a lot to be desired. For example the whole BRT line is not a fare controlled zone making loading buses painfully slow when busy. The route is also inconvenient and the stops too close together. Theres a faint hope that some day in the remote future some of these concerns may be addressed but in the meantime it isnt the world's greatest transit system. The current political leadership here completely lacks the will to do anything properly.

Edit: to be clear I dont want this to serve in any way as a deterrent to moving here. There are so many positives. One of the most frustrating things about being a winnipeger though is the constant reminder of the potential not realized. Who knows, as time goes on many of us have been pleasantly surprised by developments we never thought possible and perhaps some day the city will live up to its potential. Certainly has a ways to go.

Oh trust me, the brt wouldn't be a deterrent! When I used to visit Winnipeg when I was young it was kind of a depressing city, there wasn't a lot going for it and the future didn't seem that exciting. Years later downtown is starting to thrive and it gets me excited for what the momentum could bring down the road. I think Winnipeg (especially downtown) has all the workings of being a truly great downtown, and I think slowly but surly its being realized.

Theres definitely some misses (the BRT did seem odd when I was researching it), but it doesn't seem like things that is impossible to be fixed in the future. Two steps forward for Winnipeg and one step back as I see it. I would love to see Graham Ave. turn into a dedicated lrt line, with a stop at the Forks, connecting to the current brt (converting into lrt of course!)

[esquire]

^ I would expect more BRT lines to get built over the next few decades but I'd say we're probably at least 40 years away from getting rail based rapid transit. (Maybe we'll get a tram before then, but that doesn't count as rapid transit...)

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Winnipeg has "the option" to convert the line to LRT in the future but I have my doubts. The BRT is a fine enough concept but it lacks many of the hallmarks of a properly functioning system. Ridership on Winnipeg transit is not bad but the system leaves a lot to be desired. For example the whole BRT line is not a fare controlled zone making loading buses painfully slow when busy. The route is also inconvenient and the stops too close together. Theres a faint hope that some day in the remote future some of these concerns may be addressed but in the meantime it isnt the world's greatest transit system. The current political leadership here completely lacks the will to do anything properly.

Edit: to be clear I dont want this to serve in any way as a deterrent to moving here. There are so many positives. One of the most frustrating things about being a winnipeger though is the constant reminder of the potential not realized. Who knows, as time goes on many of us have been pleasantly surprised by developments we never thought possible and perhaps some day the city will live up to its potential. Certainly has a ways to go.

People on this forum tend to equate Winnipeg mediocrity with "a lack of political leadership" when the reality is that local politicians, especially at the municipal level, are 100% bound by a lack of money to get things done. A bare-bones BRT system was chosen because it allowed us to begin development of a "rapid transit" system at a price tag the tax base could swallow. Anything more than a simple BRT system right now would likely result in nothing getting done at all simply because the taxpayer wouldn't allow it.

You can blame City Hall all you want for Winnipeg's lack of foresight and inability to move beyond 1990, but the truth is that without money, it doesn't matter how visionary you are, you simply can't do stuff. BRT fit the budget, LRT did not. It might in the future, but it certainly doesn't now. And given the state of the city's finances and much needed projects going forward, I will be surprised if all 4 legs of BRT get built in the next 50 years, never mind the conversion to LRT.

At the end of the day, the amenities provided in this city are a function of it's tax base and the willingness of the taxbase to pay for the things they want. Their desires are reflected in the politicians they elect, so don't blame the politicians. If people in this city wanted LRT, they could lobby their city councillor to raise property taxes by 10% and get it done. But instead we have a taxbase that decries every public expenditure that's not related to filling potholes. It's sad, really, but the reality is that all people want here are to have their roads fixed. So in 15 years from now, if you want to live in a city that has the most improved roads, Winnipeg's gonna be your place to be. But if you want world-class anything else, from parks to public transit, you're going to have to look elsewhere. The lack of vision in this city isn't from politicians, it's from taxpayers.

If we wanted more amenities besides the bare minimum, we would signal to politicians that we are willing to fund it. But as it stands, Winnipeg has some of the lowest municipal property taxes in all of Canada and when that is combined with a Provincial government who is not very friendly to the largest city in the province, it results in the city just struggling to keep the lights on, never mind investing in shiny new public services and goods.

[bomberjet]

Jfc, doom and gloom here lol The BRT line is fine if you're going to/from south Winnipeg to downtown. That's the purpose. It's fast and efficient.

City is working on the study for eastern BRT and the rest of the network. It works fine IMO. The boarding issues are not just for the BRT. Fare zones would be the best of course. But with the software upgrades to the fare boxes on all buses, paying by Peggo card is instant now. It takes a few seconds on the fare boxes without the software updates, which gets slow.

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

People on this forum tend to equate Winnipeg mediocrity with "a lack of political leadership" when the reality is that local politicians, especially at the municipal level, are 100% bound by a lack of money to get things done. A bare-bones BRT system was chosen because it allowed us to begin development of a "rapid transit" system at a price tag the tax base could swallow. Anything more than a simple BRT system right now would likely result in nothing getting done at all simply because the taxpayer wouldn't allow it.

You can blame City Hall all you want for Winnipeg's lack of foresight and inability to move beyond 1990, but the truth is that without money, it doesn't matter how visionary you are, you simply can't do stuff. BRT fit the budget, LRT did not. It might in the future, but it certainly doesn't now. And given the state of the city's finances and much needed projects going forward, I will be surprised if all 4 legs of BRT get built in the next 50 years, never mind the conversion to LRT.

At the end of the day, the amenities provided in this city are a function of it's tax base and the willingness of the taxbase to pay for the things they want. Their desires are reflected in the politicians they elect, so don't blame the politicians. If people in this city wanted LRT, they could lobby their city councillor to raise property taxes by 10% and get it done. But instead we have a taxbase that decries every public expenditure that's not related to filling potholes. It's sad, really, but the reality is that all people want here are to have their roads fixed. So in 15 years from now, if you want to live in a city that has the most improved roads, Winnipeg's gonna be your place to be. But if you want world-class anything else, from parks to public transit, you're going to have to look elsewhere. The lack of vision in this city isn't from politicians, it's from taxpayers.

If we wanted more amenities besides the bare minimum, we would signal to politicians that we are willing to fund it. But as it stands, Winnipeg has some of the lowest municipal property taxes in all of Canada and when that is combined with a Provincial government who is not very friendly to the largest city in the province, it results in the city just struggling to keep the lights on, never mind investing in shiny new public services and goods.

Huh? Winnipeg has the highest property tax rates in the country. Tax revenue is still low because our property values are low. So Winnipeggers may be lower property tax bills than those elsewhere, but relative to their property wealth they pay among the highest rates. So yes, money is the reason we don't have more shiny things. But not because Winnipeggers are just too cheap to pay more. They're already paying the highest rates around. They can't help it much if their house is only worth 1/3 what the same house would cost in Toronto.

As for the BRT, the first line isn't even finished yet so it's hard to make a judgement. Phase 1 doesn't really take you anywhere, once the whole line is complete from downtown to the university/stadium, we will start to get a better picture of how well it works. There is some development happening around the Osborne village stations, and slowly around Fort rouge station. I think once the line is complete, the development of the UofM lands near the stadium will happen fast. 5 years from now, when the line is done and there is a bit more development near the stations, I think it will be pretty successful.

[bomberjet]

I did take another look at the eastern corridor study just now and boy it still pisses me off. I'd really like to see what the preferred option is.

Also people have been making comments about how the route along the railway through Whittier park just disappeared. There's no report or anything else on why it was removed.

I know why, the City is weak. The don't know how to deal with the railways. The City is scared of them for some reason, literally scared.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

People on this forum tend to equate Winnipeg mediocrity with "a lack of political leadership" when the reality is that local politicians, especially at the municipal level, are 100% bound by a lack of money to get things done. A bare-bones BRT system was chosen because it allowed us to begin development of a "rapid transit" system at a price tag the tax base could swallow. Anything more than a simple BRT system right now would likely result in nothing getting done at all simply because the taxpayer wouldn't allow it.

You can blame City Hall all you want for Winnipeg's lack of foresight and inability to move beyond 1990, but the truth is that without money, it doesn't matter how visionary you are, you simply can't do stuff. BRT fit the budget, LRT did not. It might in the future, but it certainly doesn't now. And given the state of the city's finances and much needed projects going forward, I will be surprised if all 4 legs of BRT get built in the next 50 years, never mind the conversion to LRT.

At the end of the day, the amenities provided in this city are a function of it's tax base and the willingness of the taxbase to pay for the things they want. Their desires are reflected in the politicians they elect, so don't blame the politicians. If people in this city wanted LRT, they could lobby their city councillor to raise property taxes by 10% and get it done. But instead we have a taxbase that decries every public expenditure that's not related to filling potholes. It's sad, really, but the reality is that all people want here are to have their roads fixed. So in 15 years from now, if you want to live in a city that has the most improved roads, Winnipeg's gonna be your place to be. But if you want world-class anything else, from parks to public transit, you're going to have to look elsewhere. The lack of vision in this city isn't from politicians, it's from taxpayers.

If we wanted more amenities besides the bare minimum, we would signal to politicians that we are willing to fund it. But as it stands, Winnipeg has some of the lowest municipal property taxes in all of Canada and when that is combined with a Provincial government who is not very friendly to the largest city in the province, it results in the city just struggling to keep the lights on, never mind investing in shiny new public services and goods.

If we can't afford an LRT now, we probably won't be able to in the future. Where there is a will there is a way. There is clearly no will here.

If money is the problem then we are really screwed. On the news I have been hearing quite a bit about a special bus fare for low income people. If the fare is high for people with the current system I don't see how we can move forward.

I had to take the bus for a few months a few years ago. Taking the bus in Winnipeg is a real pain in the ass. The bus system here is comparable to smaller cities like Halifax or Regina. On top of that, depending on what routes you take you have to put up with other bullshit. The bus shelters during the cold months are often full of people sleeping and the shelters smell like a combo of piss, lysol, beer shit. Drive down Main or Portage around 5/6 in the Morning the shelters are all full of homeless people. Sorry for being so blunt but thats the way things are here.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I know why, the City is weak. The don't know how to deal with the railways. The City is scared of them for some reason, literally scared.

It's not weakness or fear, it's right of way. The railways have the right to run through the city to support their operations and the city has no say in the matter.

This has been pointed out several times before and it will not change. Why don't you get it?

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I did take another look at the eastern corridor study just now and boy it still pisses me off. I'd really like to see what the preferred option is.

Also people have been making comments about how the route along the railway through Whittier park just disappeared. There's no report or anything else on why it was removed.

I know why, the City is weak. The don't know how to deal with the railways. The City is scared of them for some reason, literally scared.

I am really disappointed the City can't use the route through Whittier park either. It's too bad CN won't play ball but it's hard to totally blame the City when they can only try to negotiate with an unwilling partner. I'd like to see the eastern corridor designed to be able to expand through that area.

I really wonder what CN really didn't like about sharing that area in particular. I mean the City and CN have done a pretty good job of working together up until now with the other portions of BRT.

[esquire]

^ There is tons that can be done to improve transit without needing to involve the railways. Maybe at some point they will pull out of the city, but who knows, that could be 100, 200 years off. I certainly wouldn't make any short term plans that involve railway relocation.

FWIW I'm of the view that for better or for worse, we have BRT and we might as well make the best of it. That means ensuring the network has plans and funding for consistent growth, and for making the experience as good as possible. Right now it's a long way from that, with inconsistent, inconvenient service, the crap peggo fare payment system, the annoyance of not having fare paid zones to speed up boarding, the gaps in the BRT network (no plans to complete the segment from River Ave to Graham Ave), etc.

There is a hell of a lot that can be done to elevate the BRT experience. We've barely scratched the surface.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Riverman

It's not weakness or fear, it's right of way. The railways have the right to run through the city to support their operations and the city has no say in the matter.

This has been pointed out several times before and it will not change. Why don't you get it?

The City owns a right of way north of the CN land. It's too narrow from what they've said. Or else there's just bullshitting entirely.

And trust me, the City is weak on railways. It's my job.