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  #681  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2017, 9:52 PM
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drew drew is offline
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  #682  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2017, 6:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Strong View Post
Agreed.

I have a different trade-off. I'm on the Portage Express route near Mount Royal, so I don't need a car. I can bus to work from here as quickly as I did from Fort Garry Place. I'm next to a decent-sized Food Fare, so I rarely need to visit a larger grocery store.

The trade-off:

Sweet Jesus tap-dancing Christ it's boring here. I had a 23rd-floor view directly overlooking The Forks. I watched it turn from rail yards to a wonderful park, and watched the whole thing get covered over with buildings and parking. One interesting construction project after another, including the main street and Provencher bridges and even a suspension bridge.

Also the reconstruction of south Main, uncovering the parts of the old Fort Garry under Main Street, and ripping up the old streetcar lines and the Fort Garry Hotel steam conduit.

I watched major fires and a bunch of police chases through the telescope while listening on the scanner. (Alas, the police channels are now encrypted.)

There were lots of places to go and to hang out.

Here on Portage and Mount Royal there's.... nothing. No view whatsoever beyond parked cars, and dumpsters. No-where to go. And thanks to the airport noise bylaws, no construction of anything interesting allowed.

It's all trade-offs.
Good points.

Lived in Mount Royal for a couple of years in the early part of the Millennium. Nothing to do except walk to Assiniboine Park in the summer.
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  #683  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2017, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
Good points.

Lived in Mount Royal for a couple of years in the early part of the Millennium. Nothing to do except walk to Assiniboine Park in the summer.
as far as suburban areas go I find the Mount Royal area quite underrated. nice and leafy, convenient as hell, close to the Park (and the Heights for beer and ribs lol). I like that area..
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  #684  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2017, 2:36 PM
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I didn't realize the Heights was such a good place until I worked with a bunch of people from St. James. Has some sort of religious like cult following haha. Driving by it looks like a dump, no offense.
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  #685  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2017, 4:14 PM
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I didn't realize the Heights was such a good place until I worked with a bunch of people from St. James. Has some sort of religious like cult following haha. Driving by it looks like a dump, no offense.
it is a dump. I like it though...they don't boil the ribs to start cooking them like most places do.
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  #686  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2017, 4:23 PM
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^Nice. I hear they have good wings too.

Anyways, back on to the Forks. Does anyone know when we may hear some progress on the developer search? RFP's closed a while back now IIRC.
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  #687  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2017, 4:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
I didn't realize the Heights was such a good place until I worked with a bunch of people from St. James. Has some sort of religious like cult following haha. Driving by it looks like a dump, no offense.
I'm part of the Heights cult, while my boss is in the Rae & Jerry's cult.

I've conceded that Rae & Jerry's is a better all-round restaurant on service, selection and whatnot, but the Longhorn Rib Steak at Silver Heights is the best steak in the city. "Cult" is right, because you could base a religion on it.
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  #688  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2017, 4:40 PM
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I used to work with a guy who counts the Heights' proprietors as clients... I swear he spends more waking hours at the Heights than anywhere else besides work. There is something cultish about that place! Are the ribs that good?
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  #689  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2017, 5:56 AM
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https://globalnews.ca/news/3880376/b...s-in-winnipeg/

Sounds like things are moving ahead pretty quick now... 2018 is going to be an exciting year
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  #690  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2017, 2:21 PM
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Great, as long as the Winnipeg phenomenon does not kick in, and we see progress.
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  #691  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2017, 4:55 PM
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Not a fan of the zig-zaggy orientation... too strong.

If they want ground floor retail then it has to be way more walkable than that, atleast offer some resemblance of a pathway, rather than simply walking into buildings. All that's pedestrian friendly is actually only resident friendly, with de facto interior courtyards... and that's good, keep some of them... but few people will want to walk through that is they literally need to exit the parcel to east or west just to find out where they are.

As far as that density? Man, I'm a fan. Hopefully they find some way to accommodate a bit more parking, because while I like a reduced dependency on it, I can't see Winnipeg adjusting that quickly.
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  #692  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2017, 4:57 PM
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I think the whole development would be like a European square. I picture cobble stones filling every piece of space between the buildings. Put in some trees, planters, etc to spruce it up. Maybe a fountain. Then have every floor level unit being retail, commercial, etc.

In the winter it could be skating trails snaking through there.
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  #693  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2017, 6:07 PM
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Not a fan of the zig-zaggy orientation... too strong.

If they want ground floor retail then it has to be way more walkable than that, atleast offer some resemblance of a pathway, rather than simply walking into buildings.
Agreed. Suddenly I'm a lot less optimistic about this development. Have they ever seen an actual walkable urban area? A few bends in the path for visual interest, sure. But this just looks incoherent -- no vista beyond the next building, no sense of whether you should keep walking or whether it's a dead end.
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  #694  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2017, 6:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DancingDuck View Post
https://globalnews.ca/news/3880376/b...s-in-winnipeg/

Sounds like things are moving ahead pretty quick now... 2018 is going to be an exciting year
I am quite excited to see this project come to life. Since moving here in Winnipeg 2 years ago I have always thought of those parking lots as good places to have mixed-use facilities, ie. condos and retail. I don't get why those people who were interviewed get so scared to lose the parking lots. There is always the option to take the bus, or you know, just walk.
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  #695  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2017, 6:49 PM
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Originally Posted by kalabaw View Post
I am quite excited to see this project come to life. Since moving here in Winnipeg 2 years ago I have always thought of those parking lots as good places to have mixed-use facilities, ie. condos and retail. I don't get why those people who were interviewed get so scared to lose the parking lots. There is always the option to take the bus, or you know, just walk.
I really hope they plan to put one or more parkades on the other side of the tracks, with some elevated entry points to the Forks.
Is it just me or does it seem that Winnipeg has hit a tipping point from a development point of view? I know that in some highly skilled/educated segments of the immigrant community we are being looked at more and more favourably as a destination of choice. Exciting times. Now about that Stanley Cup 😀
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  #696  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2017, 7:09 PM
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Yeah, I'm not feeling the zig-zag layout. It looks like a Manitoba Housing project from the 60s.

We all know that continuous streetfronts aligned with the street work best... why mess with success?


designforwalkability.com
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  #697  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2017, 7:19 PM
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I don't think getting lost will be an issue. The whole Parcel-4 property is actually pretty thin. If you do lose your way, it won't take long before you find your way out. Anyways, this is the Forks; people come here to stay and enjoy themselves. I think they may actually be trying to cultivate the feeling of wandering around and getting lost. Not many people walk through the Forks. And if they do, they can take the linear park that is replacing 2 lanes of Israel Asper Way or the straight path from the Esplanade Riel to Union station. There are plenty of clear walking routes through the Forks, this is not meant to be one of them.
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  #698  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2017, 7:24 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Yeah, I'm not feeling the zig-zag layout. It looks like a Manitoba Housing project from the 60s.

We all know that continuous streetfronts aligned with the street work best... why mess with success?
Actually many of the most attractive European city centres follow an incoherent zig-zag layout. It creates greater variety and surprise. There is a time for a straight grid system, and there is a time for a less linear approach. I think this property calls for the latter. In my opinion, the more important factor for walkability is small blocks, and these are probably the smallest blocks in the entire city.
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  #699  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2017, 8:11 PM
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Don’t forget that Israel Asper way is being converted to a north south linear walkway on the west side. I think the zig zag pattern takes that into consideration
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  #700  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2017, 9:19 PM
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Originally Posted by GarryEllice View Post
Agreed. Suddenly I'm a lot less optimistic about this development. Have they ever seen an actual walkable urban area? A few bends in the path for visual interest, sure. But this just looks incoherent -- no vista beyond the next building, no sense of whether you should keep walking or whether it's a dead end.
Exactly. If consumers feel trapped, they won't bother.

Furthermore, prospective tenants for retail will be all "fuck that"
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Yeah, I'm not feeling the zig-zag layout. It looks like a Manitoba Housing project from the 60s.

We all know that continuous streetfronts aligned with the street work best... why mess with success?


designforwalkability.com
It builds these interior courtyards that pose a threat... because of high construction costs in Winnipeg, there is a chance that these buildings look... simple... and if you have these incoherent courtyards where only residents hang out because others get lost, these could become projects. Especially with this emphasis on affordability. It needs high traffic flow.
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Originally Posted by goldenboi View Post
I don't think getting lost will be an issue. The whole Parcel-4 property is actually pretty thin. If you do lose your way, it won't take long before you find your way out. Anyways, this is the Forks; people come here to stay and enjoy themselves. I think they may actually be trying to cultivate the feeling of wandering around and getting lost. Not many people walk through the Forks. And if they do, they can take the linear park that is replacing 2 lanes of Israel Asper Way or the straight path from the Esplanade Riel to Union station. There are plenty of clear walking routes through the Forks, this is not meant to be one of them.
But that's a problem with Winnipeg mentalities... like P+M, we say "why open it, just walk a block further down" much like "if you get disoriented, just leave the parcel".

That's not how real estate works. People don't go to destinations for that experience, and tenants don't sign leases when casual walking traffic isn't enabled. If you have a chance to do it right, just make it easy for the pedestrian and the entire neighbourhood right from the start.

More importantly, that's not how non-Winnipeggers work. We rely on our own familiarity to get around confusion corner or underground P+M, but an outsider asks "why is this so stupid?" and it reduces the attraction
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Originally Posted by goldenboi View Post
Actually many of the most attractive European city centres follow an incoherent zig-zag layout. It creates greater variety and surprise. There is a time for a straight grid system, and there is a time for a less linear approach. I think this property calls for the latter. In my opinion, the more important factor for walkability is small blocks, and these are probably the smallest blocks in the entire city.
Many European cities...

a) already are global destinations
b) these areas have gradually densified over centuries, so retail demand is already there.
c) while they do not follow a grid, it isn't such a dense zig-zag. The public walks through areas that change direction from block to block, not building to building

We're Winnipeg. We have to nail this. We can't throw some random thing on a parcel, blame its incoherence on artistic merit and say "Surprise, we're Barcelona now!"
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