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  #701  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 6:43 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
During the school year that is the main route between Dal (probably the bike capital of the Maritimes) and the closest full size grocery store plus people commuting to parts further north and west via Windsor bike lane. I've been using it quite regularly and I'd honestly be a bit surprised if it was "only" 200-300/weekday during most of the year.
Cool! Have you noticed a huge improvement since it was switched over?
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  #702  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 6:45 PM
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Interesting question - Vernon Street, as a "bikeway" still allows on street parking (primarily intended for residents) but bans through traffic for motorized vehicles.

What if a non resident decides to park his car on the street? Since he is parking his car on the street, it by definition is not "through traffic". Is this allowed? Are there signs specifically banning non-resident parking???
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  #703  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 6:49 PM
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I didn't actually know anything significant was changed until i saw this thread today. I thought they just repaved it and put some curb extension bump outs for the cross walks. There does seem to be less car traffic but it's also summer so hard to tell. I'm just glad they're finally done with the damn construction because having to constantly detour to avoid those guys with the stop/slow signs when running late is the worst.
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  #704  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 6:51 PM
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I'm guessing that the system is more or less like the King St. corridor setup where cars just can't use the street for longer distances? I don't think it's banning non-local vehicles because that sign would say local traffic only rather than be a forward arrow with a line through it.
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  #705  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 7:07 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
I didn't actually know anything significant was changed until i saw this thread today. I thought they just repaved it and put some curb extension bump outs for the cross walks. There does seem to be less car traffic but it's also summer so hard to tell. I'm just glad they're finally done with the damn construction because having to constantly detour to avoid those guys with the stop/slow signs when running late is the worst.
Thanks. I'll be interested to hear how it's going for cyclists (and non-cyclists) as the plan pulls together and it all becomes more normal.
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  #706  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 7:11 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Interesting question - Vernon Street, as a "bikeway" still allows on street parking (primarily intended for residents) but bans through traffic for motorized vehicles.

What if a non resident decides to park his car on the street? Since he is parking his car on the street, it by definition is not "through traffic". Is this allowed? Are there signs specifically banning non-resident parking???
I think that would be difficult to police, unless residents were required to have parking passes displayed on their mirrors or windshield, then police would be able to ticket anybody without a pass displayed.

Still, it would make it difficult for visitors parking, etc.
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  #707  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 7:14 PM
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Don't worry, if HRM Traffic can screw it up, they will.
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  #708  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
I didn't actually know anything significant was changed until i saw this thread today. I thought they just repaved it and put some curb extension bump outs for the cross walks. There does seem to be less car traffic but it's also summer so hard to tell. I'm just glad they're finally done with the damn construction because having to constantly detour to avoid those guys with the stop/slow signs when running late is the worst.
Well if you were in a car perhaps you would not be late. More options and all.
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  #709  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2019, 2:14 AM
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The sign means "no going straight through the intersection (except bicycles)", i.e. cars must turn. Not "no local traffic", although I guess in effect it would achieve the same thing. It's a good way to protect Vernon from heavy car traffic that should be on Robie anyway.

I also used this route to commute to Dal by bike for a few years. The improvements look great. In the afternoon I used to get stuck in long queues of cars trying to cross Jubilee. That should now be a thing of the past.

I'm curious what the Vernon-Seymour transition now looks like. That was always the trickiest part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
During the school year that is the main route between Dal (probably the bike capital of the Maritimes) and the closest full size grocery store plus people commuting to parts further north and west via Windsor bike lane. I've been using it quite regularly and I'd honestly be a bit surprised if it was "only" 200-300/weekday during most of the year.
This 2017 article gives a figure of 150 cyclists at Quinpool and Vernon in the "afternoon rush hour" alone.

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Well if you were in a car perhaps you would not be late. More options and all.
My driving classmates at Dal were often late because they couldn't find parking!

Last edited by alps; Jun 20, 2019 at 2:30 AM.
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  #710  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2019, 11:15 AM
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I'm wondering if they're going to put in any physical implement here to actually prevent through traffic from cars. I'm not sure what that would look like, though.
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  #711  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2019, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by alps View Post
The sign means "no going straight through the intersection (except bicycles)", i.e. cars must turn. Not "no local traffic", although I guess in effect it would achieve the same thing. It's a good way to protect Vernon from heavy car traffic that should be on Robie anyway.

I also used this route to commute to Dal by bike for a few years. The improvements look great. In the afternoon I used to get stuck in long queues of cars trying to cross Jubilee. That should now be a thing of the past.

I'm curious what the Vernon-Seymour transition now looks like. That was always the trickiest part.



This 2017 article gives a figure of 150 cyclists at Quinpool and Vernon in the "afternoon rush hour" alone.



My driving classmates at Dal were often late because they couldn't find parking!
I use Vernon for my North-South cycle commute all the time (Bedford Hwy - Windsor st. - Vernon St.- Dal). The addition of intersection 'bump-outs' last fall made it a lot safer. I thought these were just going to help pedestrians cross the street, but they have the effect of allowing drivers to 'nose-out' past the big street tree trunks that normally blocked their vision when turning onto Vernon from one of the side streets. Now they can see me coming on my bicycle and vice-versa.
Interested to see how the remaining changes help. Lots of elementary school kids walking to Lemarchant every day on Vernon, but this age group rarely bikes on the street. Perhaps that will change.
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  #712  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2019, 12:26 PM
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I'm wondering if they're going to put in any physical implement here to actually prevent through traffic from cars. I'm not sure what that would look like, though.
They were/are intending to do an actual physical diverter at Harvard and Allan, but it's caught up in a lawsuit from the residents.

They're called "diagonal diverters" and they look like this:



The difference though is that the diagonal diverter reduces the number of turn options for a vehicle from three to one, while the the "no straight traffic" sign reduces turn options from three to two.
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  #713  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2019, 1:17 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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I think one concern about physically blocking access to motor vehicles is that this also could restrict emergency vehicles from entering the area. With the pic posted above it looks like it would be a struggle to get a fire truck through there safely.
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  #714  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2019, 1:22 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
I think one concern about physically blocking access to motor vehicles is that this also could restrict emergency vehicles from entering the area. With the pic posted above it looks like it would be a struggle to get a fire truck through there safely.
Excellent point!
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  #715  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2019, 1:35 PM
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They were/are intending to do an actual physical diverter at Harvard and Allan, but it's caught up in a lawsuit from the residents.

Well, that's always a good thing. Nothing like having your elected representative for your area jam through an unwanted pet project that results in a lawsuit from the people he is supposed to be representing. Do we have recall legislation for municipal council as yet? Surely this is badly needed both in HRM and elsewhere in the province.


Quote:

They're called "diagonal diverters" and they look like this:


In that pic I see no place for the white car on the left to go. Is it supposed to be forced to make a left turn? That would appear to place it in a bike lane. Maybe this is a crafty ticket revenue-generation scheme by the perpetually revenue-hungry HRM.

The HRM war on the private vehicle continues apace...

This looks like absolute lunacy. A case of the tail wagging the dog.
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  #716  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2019, 1:48 PM
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The pedestrian in the white shirt looks confused.........

Why are those two bicycles in the middle of the street? The riders seem not interested in giving way to motorized vehicular traffic.
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  #717  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2019, 1:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
In that pic I see no place for the white car on the left to go. Is it supposed to be forced to make a left turn? That would appear to place it in a bike lane. Maybe this is a crafty ticket revenue-generation scheme by the perpetually revenue-hungry HRM. .
It's not a bike lane - it's a shared street. Basically means that cyclists can use that section of road and cars have to sit behind them until an opportunity arises to pass, IE don't honk at the cyclists or try to run them over like what happened here in Ottawa.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...vers-1.4750928

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...ists-1.4748470
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  #718  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2019, 1:58 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by alps View Post
The sign means "no going straight through the intersection (except bicycles)", i.e. cars must turn. Not "no local traffic", although I guess in effect it would achieve the same thing. It's a good way to protect Vernon from heavy car traffic that should be on Robie anyway.

I also used this route to commute to Dal by bike for a few years. The improvements look great. In the afternoon I used to get stuck in long queues of cars trying to cross Jubilee. That should now be a thing of the past.

I'm curious what the Vernon-Seymour transition now looks like. That was always the trickiest part.



This 2017 article gives a figure of 150 cyclists at Quinpool and Vernon in the "afternoon rush hour" alone.



My driving classmates at Dal were often late because they couldn't find parking!
When I attended Dal while living in Dartmouth, I used 3 different modes of travel, my $200 car that I kept running by skinned knuckles and junkyard parts, my mountain bike, and the bus system. Mind you, this was the 1980s, before all the bike lanes and one metre rules, etc.

The fastest method to get there was by car, despite the greater distance and waiting in traffic jams, just by the physical fact that the car could travel at faster speeds when it wasn't stuck on the bridge. I couldn't afford a parking pass at Dal, but was usually able to find parking on the side streets.

Second fastest was the bus, again due to the physical ability to travel faster than a bike. Was slower than the car due to the walk to the bus terminal and waiting for a bus (in those days you weren't always guaranteed of getting on the first bus that arrived as they were always standing room only - it's probably the same now). The bus was the least pleasurable method of travel between the three.

Third fastest was the bike - it was a little slower, especially going up hills although I always tried to keep up with traffic. Also had to wait for the ferry crossing, but didn't have to wait in traffic as there was always an easy way around it. What sucked was bad weather and sitting in the classroom in sweaty clothes from the bike ride.

Cheapest operating cost was the bike, obviously (although my bike cost three times the purchase price of the car), but at least in those days it wasn't expensive to keep an old car running, especially if you were willing to put some effort into learning how to repair them and actually doing the repairs yourself.

I think cycling today has improved in comparison. It's good that the city is expending some effort to make things safer, as I had a few near misses back then, and I didn't have to contend with zombie drivers half paying attention to their cell phones like you have today. But back then I had the luxury of being both a car driver and a bicyclist, so I understood the challenges facing car drivers and rode the bicycle accordingly - I knew the simple physics of a 3500 lb car vs a 180 lb bicycle+rider meant that I would always be on the losing end of any altercation, and thus did everything I could to avoid it. Also knew that the dynamics of operating a car meant that it didn't turn or stop as quickly as a bike and made allowances for that as well. The thing that gets me about the more vocal bicyclists nowadays is that it turns into some kind of righteous indignation - like their right to participate in such a virtuous form of transportation means that they should not have to look out for themselves. I know not all cyclists have that attitude, but the ones who make it to the radio interviews and public meetings appear to think that way, and it has turned into a battle rather than cooperation. We need more cooperation in life today, IMHO.
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  #719  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2019, 2:06 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
It's not a bike lane - it's a shared street. Basically means that cyclists can use that section of road and cars have to sit behind them until an opportunity arises to pass, IE don't honk at the cyclists or try to run them over

That sounds like a very, very, very bad idea. They are nowhere near equivalent forms or levels of transportation so why put one in harm's way? If the disability advocate now on HRM's payroll decides wheelchairs should be treated the same way are we going to see them on "shared streets" as well?

This is absolutely nuts. It needs to stop.
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  #720  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2019, 2:17 PM
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All streets are shared streets (excepting some controlled-access highways). And it's completely reasonable to mix traffic on these quieter side streets; a dedicated bike lane would be overkill.

The "sharrows" are, in theory, there to remind drivers that they do indeed need to share the street with bikes. In my opinion they're unnecessary though, and maybe even detrimental (by implying that other streets AREN'T shared).
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