West side is the best side

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by memph

Nonetheless... incomes are higher than you'd expect. Even compared to Vaughan, Pickering, Ajax and Whitby are a little wealthier despite having a significantly lower % of university degrees.

From anecdotal experience of growing up in Durham, a lot of its residents are unionized employees working for the City of Toronto. Tons of Toronto Police, Fire, TTC employees, etc. all live out in Durham. Durham is relatively easy to commute into Toronto proper, but not the rest of the GTA, and is very affordable in terms of real estate compared to the city itself.

Southern York Region has insane housing prices but I think a lot of its residents aren't as wealthy as they would like to think. You get a real sense of "flashy wealth" in Vaughan, and I get the feeling a lot of it is financed on a ton of debt. The prices of houses in Richmond Hill and Vaughan today is arguably higher than in Toronto. 1980's 45' lots with 2,300 square foot homes are often going for over $1.5 million... its ridiculous. That price would buy you a 90' lot with a 4,000 square foot home in Newmarket or a respectable detached home in the City of Toronto, not some otherwise middle class house in the suburbs.

Northern York Region returns to a bit of normalcy again though. Aurora has a lot of wealth, and places like Newmarket and Holland Landing are popular middle class suburbs today. The shores of Lake Simcoe are on the far edge of the GTA, but you see a lot of working class families living up there and doing mega commutes down the 404 since the real estate is so much more affordable.

[Docere]

HH income $150,000+:

Oakville 30.7%
Aurora 27.4%
Richmond Hill 22.6%
Vaughan 22.4%
Markham 21%
Pickering 20.5%
Newmarket 19.8%
Ajax 18%

[Docere]

Toronto (old city) traditionally had the west and east ends (sides), but "north end" is rarely used then or now. North of St. Clair Ave. (the last part of the old city to annexed before WWI) is North Toronto.

In Buffalo, West and East sides are used, but then there's also North Buffalo and South Buffalo.

[Docere]

Among say, partners at a downtown law firm, by far the largest numbers would live in the area between roughly Allen Rd. or Bathurst to Bayview or Leslie, north of Bloor and south of the 401.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

From anecdotal experience of growing up in Durham, a lot of its residents are unionized employees working for the City of Toronto. Tons of Toronto Police, Fire, TTC employees, etc. all live out in Durham. Durham is relatively easy to commute into Toronto proper, but not the rest of the GTA, and is very affordable in terms of real estate compared to the city itself.

Southern York Region has insane housing prices but I think a lot of its residents aren't as wealthy as they would like to think. You get a real sense of "flashy wealth" in Vaughan, and I get the feeling a lot of it is financed on a ton of debt. The prices of houses in Richmond Hill and Vaughan today is arguably higher than in Toronto. 1980's 45' lots with 2,300 square foot homes are often going for over $1.5 million... its ridiculous. That price would buy you a 90' lot with a 4,000 square foot home in Newmarket or a respectable detached home in the City of Toronto, not some otherwise middle class house in the suburbs.

Northern York Region returns to a bit of normalcy again though. Aurora has a lot of wealth, and places like Newmarket and Holland Landing are popular middle class suburbs today. The shores of Lake Simcoe are on the far edge of the GTA, but you see a lot of working class families living up there and doing mega commutes down the 404 since the real estate is so much more affordable.

What makes the real estate in far flung suburbs like Vaughan and Richmond Hill so expensive? I can't imagine greenfield developments here going for those kinds of prices.

[vid]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

The west side is clearly the worst side of any city to live on. You have the sun in your eyes both ways when you commute.

Thunder Bay's downtown cores are on the eastern side of the city against the lake, so this literally applies to everyone who commutes here, unless they have a north-south commute, which is becoming more common.

[casper]

This theory makes no sense. Saskatoon has more affluent East side.

[Pinion]

This is a new map of million+ dollar homes (red) in Metro Vancouver, with West Vancouver (technically northwest Vancouver) leading the way as usual with 97% of homes costing over $1 mill.



http://www.theprovince.com/Business/12561322/story.html

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

The west side is clearly the worst side of any city to live on. You have the sun in your eyes both ways when you commute.

What is this "sun"

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by casper

This theory makes no sense. Saskatoon has more affluent East side.

The original poster noted Saskatoon as an exception.

[ue]

Originally Posted by esquire

Funny how that goes... Winnipeg has a west end and a north end. There is a tendency to refer to a south end even though there is no commonly understood south end. There really is no east end to speak of.

What's interesting about the west end and north end is that they are practically adjacent to downtown... I guess they got those names a century ago when they really were the ends of the city, and it stuck even as the city's footprint leapfrogged them.

In terms of prosperity, as noted before I'd say Winnipeg is definitely oriented on a N/S split. The east side of town tends to be working class, the west side (beyond the working class West End) tends to be comfortably middle class. However, there are pockets of wealth that run along the rivers through the entire city... even in much of the North End, the banks of the Red River are lined with comfortable middle class homes even though gangs might be running around in a dilapidated neighbourhood 500m to the west.

Winnipeg's interesting due to the 2 rivers meeting. North is obvious, and even though not "North End", I see Garden City et al as an extension of the Northern quadrant. West I always took to mean anything due west of downtown and south of the railyards, but north of the Assiniboine River. South I assumed was south of Assiniboine, west of Red River. East as anything east of the Red River. But based on how you're describing things, it sounds like I may be off. Is St. Vital/area also considered south? Are places like Assiniboine Park consdered west?

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Docere

In Buffalo, West and East sides are used, but then there's also North Buffalo and South Buffalo.

for the Buffalo suburbs, they are referred to as Northtowns (ex:Tonawanada, Amherst), Southtowns (ex: Hamburg, Orchard Park, East Aurora), and Eastern suburbs (ex: Depew, Cheektowaga, Lancaster, Clarence, Alden).
Because of Lake Erie/the Niagara River there's really no "Western" suburbs

[esquire]

Originally Posted by ue

Winnipeg's interesting due to the 2 rivers meeting. North is obvious, and even though not "North End", I see Garden City et al as an extension of the Northern quadrant. West I always took to mean anything due west of downtown and south of the railyards, but north of the Assiniboine River. South I assumed was south of Assiniboine, west of Red River. East as anything east of the Red River. But based on how you're describing things, it sounds like I may be off. Is St. Vital/area also considered south? Are places like Assiniboine Park consdered west?

It's very idiosyncratic, partly because the terms and concepts are based on old, pre-amalgamation civic boundaries... it's a little hard to describe without using a map to describe. Your understanding is generally correct, though.

The definition of North End varies, but by and large it ends at the old municipal boundary between Winnipeg and the former City of West Kildonan a few blocks north of Inkster Blvd. West Kildonan is where suburbia begins, although the inner parts of it are now quite old (dating back to around WWII vintage). The proximity of the North End has had a downward socioeconomic effect on the northern suburbs, but for the most part the northern suburbs are a pretty average suburban area... the NW suburbs are characterized by a large immigrant population, while the NE suburbs are a bit more mixed but with a heavy dose of Mennonites.

As for the rest, I'd say you're on the money. West End is really a sliver between the CP line and Assiniboine River ending at Polo Park. Areas like St. Vital tend to be referred to as southerly more than eastern. West is not really a commonly used appellation... people south of the Assinboine will identify as Charleswood, Tuxedo or whatever neighbourhood, while people north of the Assinboine will identify with St. James, Westwood, Assiniboia or wherever.

It's weird, but people will refer to being from the north end of town or the south end, but no one really speaks of being from the west (unless it's the West End proper) or the east at all.

[ue]

So places further west than Polo Park aren't considered "west"? Weird.

And what about places on the east side of the Red River, from St. Boniface north, like Transcona, East Kildonan, and Elmwood? They can't be considered south like St. Vital because they're as north as downtown and the north end on the other side of the river.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by ue

So places further west than Polo Park aren't considered "west"? Weird.

Exactly... even though you could live in Assiniboia literally on the western edge of the city, you'd never describe yourself as living in west Winnipeg unless maybe you were talking to someone from elsewhere with no idea whatsoever as to the city's geography. You tell a Winnipegger you live in the West End, and they will think you live in an inner city neighbourhood with lots of good ethnic restaurants nearby.

And what about places on the east side of the Red River, from St. Boniface north, like Transcona, East Kildonan, and Elmwood? They can't be considered south like St. Vital because they're as north as downtown and the north end on the other side of the river.

If someone tells me they live on the East side, to me that means a fairly narrow stretch of Elmwood or East Kildonan. No one from Transcona would say they're from the east side/east end, even though Transcona literally is the east end of town (and there actually is an arena there called "East End").

No one from St. Boniface would say they live on the east side even though they actually do... they'd describe themselves as St. Boniface residents.

Once you get farther south into St. Vital and the newer suburbs (Island Lakes, Southdale, River Park South), there is a tendency to refer to "south end" or "south side" even though that's a really vague term with no clear boundaries.

The long and the short of it is that Winnipeggers tend to cling to pre-Unicity neighbourhood descriptions, which is something considering that the old municipalities amalgamated into the modern day City of Winnipeg in 1972.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by esquire

The definition of North End varies, but by and large it ends at the old municipal boundary between Winnipeg and the former City of West Kildonan a few blocks north of Inkster Blvd. West Kildonan is where suburbia begins, although the inner parts of it are now quite old (dating back to around WWII vintage)..

Kildonan is the suburban extension of the North End no? A lot of Ukrainians and Jews from the North End moved to the northern suburbs. Today north suburban Winnipeg still has a higher Ukrainian origin population than the south, though the Jewish population has moved mostly south of the river over the past 40 years or so (i.e. River Heights and Tuxedo).

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Docere

Kildonan is the suburban extension of the North End no? A lot of Ukrainians and Jews from the North End moved to the northern suburbs. Today north suburban Winnipeg still has a higher Ukrainian origin population than the south, though the Jewish population has moved mostly south of the river over the past 40 years or so (i.e. River Heights and Tuxedo).

It's a bit quirky, West Kildonan is actually one of the oldest parts of the city (and among the oldest European settlements in Western Canada), but there aren't many traces of that past left. It was mainly consumed by early-mid 20th century development when it did in fact become something of a suburban extension to the North End as you point out.

Just to keep things interesting, there is also East Kildonan, North Kildonan and Old Kildonan, but no South Kildonan.

The northern suburbs are kind of an interesting place... you are correct in that they had a very strong Ukrainian and Jewish flavour at the outset as a lot of upwardly mobile families left the North End and moved north. There is still a fairly strong Ukrainian presence but for the most part these days there isn't much of a dominant ethnic group in West K anymore... it's a stark contrast from the northwestern suburbs (Maples, Amber Trails, Tyndall Park) which is dominated by Filipino-Canadians and to a lesser extent by Punjabis, Vietnamese and even some Portuguese.

The Jewish history of West K is kind of interesting... in the early days of West K/Garden City suburban development, there was a pretty strong presence. However, over the last 50 years the Jewish population in the North End and West K/Garden City has nearly disappeared... many of the community institutions like synagogues, community centres, personal care homes, etc. have been turned over to other groups, and only a very small presence remains. The establishment of the Rady JCC campus in south Winnipeg some 20 years ago seemed to accelerate the departure of whatever Jews were left in the entire northern part of Winnipeg. There are still some older Jews in the area but there aren't that many younger ones left.

Interestingly, even the "posh" parts of West K/Garden City have declined a bit as the reality is that not too many people are willing to pay a premium price to live in the northern half of the city. There are a lot of 60s, 70s and 80s built homes on streets like Tanoak Park or Ambassador Row which would be perfectly at home in upscale areas like Tuxedo which sell for relatively cheap prices these days. What I've noticed is that the buyers tend not to take very good care of the homes, perhaps because they're biting off more home than they can chew, so the streets end up looking a little rough around the edges despite the grandiose homes lining them. A big 70s executive home in West K would be out of reach for most people in an area like Tuxedo, but it's still pretty affordable in West Kildonan.

Anyway, I could go on and on about this as you probably gathered

[Docere]

The federal riding of Kildonan-St. Paul is 26% Ukrainian origin.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Docere

The federal riding of Kildonan-St. Paul is 26% Ukrainian origin.

I'd suspect that many of those are third/fourth generation Ukrainian-Canadians, many of whom have effectively lost connection with Ukrainian culture. That said, after many years with next to no Ukrainian immigration, there have been some more arrivals trickling in over the last 15 years or so and many of them have settled throughout the northern part of the city where institutions relevant to them are situated. So in some ways, that has rejuvenated the Ukrainian presence a bit... nothing like that has happened with the Jewish community, though... it's mainly a one way street these days.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'd suspect that many of those are third/fourth generation Ukrainian-Canadians, many of whom have effectively lost connection with Ukrainian culture. That said, after many years with next to no Ukrainian immigration, there have been some more arrivals trickling in over the last 15 years or so and many of them have settled throughout the northern part of the city where institutions relevant to them are situated. So in some ways, that has rejuvenated the Ukrainian presence a bit... nothing like that has happened with the Jewish community, though... it's mainly a one way street these days.

Indeed. Ukrainian immigration since WWII has been directed towards Ontario not the Prairies. I would guess pretty much every riding in Winnipeg is at least 10% Ukrainian Canadian. Still there's a concentration in the Kildonans.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I disagree. The east side of town (Yonge as its central axis) continues to be under built and more affordable than the west side today.

More desirable in the sense that more people lived there, but there really isn't a huge socioeconomic split along Yonge.