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  #8501  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2017, 9:49 PM
TheWire TheWire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millhouse View Post
The reason the Utah delegation is crying foul on Bears Ears is that it is severely impacting the local towns in that area. Primarily in the recreational sports arena. Long term making Bears Ears a monument is the right thing to do, but short term, it is hurting a lot of people. It is the same with the Grand Staircase. That was one of the largest coal deposit in the state. The taxes that were generated from that specific deposit funded most of the Utah educational system. Going back to my original point, long term, its the right thing to do. Short term, a lot of people got hurt. Overall I think it forced Utah to fund their schools differently and by in large we are better off now by being a little more diversified. I think the other reason the Utah delegates are outraged is that the Federal government already owns 80% of the land in Utah. There isn't another state in the union that the government has that much ownership.
All of the SITLa sites were compensated by the federal government swapping other equivalent federal land in other places in Utah as well as mineral rights and $50M in cash. There actually weren't many people hurt in the end, short or long term. The reason why there was such a big uproar about Grand Staircase was that it nixed the creation of the Andalex Coal Mine which would have been one of the largest coal mines in the state.

When it comes to federal land ownership, check out this article. It does a great job of explaining why so much land in the west is owned by the federal government. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/u...-the-west.html
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  #8502  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2017, 3:19 AM
Liberty Wellsian Liberty Wellsian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stenar View Post
Also, National Parks are created by acts of Congress, so a lot of people have to vote on them, not just by presidential fiat, as National Monuments can be legally created according to the Antiquities Act.

National Monuments can only be created on Federal lands. The president can't just go and seize someone's land and proclaim it a monument.

If people are opposed to the creation of national monuments by presidents, they should be urging Congress to change the Antiquities Act and not harass a president for doing what is entirely legal.
IIRC the Fed makes "payments in lieu of taxes" to the state and counties for the land it manages. The easy way to solve the political rhetoric is probably to increase the amount the fed compensates local government for lost revenue, especially to the counties.

Longer term congress really does need to get its shit together and address all of Utah's BLM land(and across the west for that matter). The BLM's mission is too vague and too broad. They have to juggle too many interests with too little funding imo.
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  #8503  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2017, 6:07 AM
airportvids airportvids is offline
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So another out door retailers show has come and gone and STILL no news about the damn CCH. Shocker shocks. Guys, it's not happening. Our county leaders are too busy Jerking each other off and I doubt they are even taking this matter seriously.
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  #8504  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2017, 7:55 AM
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San Diego-Honolulu San Diego-Honolulu is offline
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Originally Posted by airportvids View Post
So another out door retailers show has come and gone and STILL no news about the damn CCH. Shocker shocks. Guys, it's not happening. Our county leaders are too busy Jerking each other off and I doubt they are even taking this matter seriously.
I told you all this was going to happen. Nothing was going to be announced. Honestly with nothing being announced at this point and being probably at least four years if not more since an official announcement about the intent to build a convention hotel, this project is not going to happen. Jokes aside about how long it takes for Salt Lake City to get things done, this isn't normal for any city in the US. It seems to me this hotel project is on life support.
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  #8505  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2017, 4:40 PM
airhero airhero is offline
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I thought it would be interesting to create a timeline of official actions/milestones of the convention center hotel ordeal. I know there has been talk of building a CCH for decades but I'm talking about proof that the project is in motion and people are serious about it.

April 2014: HB0356 is signed into law (to provide incentives). There was a lot of talk about offering incentives long before it actually happened, but providing incentives at the state level was a real hurdle to get past and the first major official action to occur toward building the CCH.

August 2014: County puts out first RFP for CCH.

October 2014: Omni Hotels offers the sole proposal for CCH. This is really when things first start to break down.

August 2015: County walks away from talks with Omni Hotels.

October? 2015: County puts out second RFP.

December 2015: Three proposals are received for CCH (RLB, JLJL, And DDRM).

February 2016: County selects DDRM to build CCH.

June 2016: County changes zoning on convention center block.

So, while "at least four years if not more since an official announcement about the intent to build a convention hotel" is a wild exaggeration (this ordeal officially began 2 years and 9 months ago), it has been almost 11 months since DDRM was selected to build the CCH with no real news since then.

Last edited by airhero; Jan 14, 2017 at 4:50 PM.
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  #8506  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2017, 11:03 PM
Utah_Dave Utah_Dave is offline
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Cch

Correct me if I'm wrong. The outdoor retailer will be in Salt Lake thru 2018. When will they negotiate an extension to that contract?
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  #8507  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2017, 11:36 PM
Ironweed Ironweed is offline
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"Jokes aside about how long it takes for Salt Lake City to get things done, this isn't normal for any city in the US."

Love him or hate him, this is the best quote I've read in a long time.

Something in the water? Gene pool limitations? Deep pockets & Short arms syndrome? Politician circle jerk parties. All of the above?

Salt Lake provides the capital (R) in Regressive.

It is somewhat admirable and amusing that the city is kinda trying to catch-up. Decades of no investment, horrific planning, and a general head in the sand attitude have significantly retarded the city's development.

It also appears that the fail posse is still in firm control.
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  #8508  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2017, 4:46 AM
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Stenar Stenar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millhouse View Post
The reason the Utah delegation is crying foul on Bears Ears is that it is severely impacting the local towns in that area. Primarily in the recreational sports arena. Long term making Bears Ears a monument is the right thing to do, but short term, it is hurting a lot of people. It is the same with the Grand Staircase. That was one of the largest coal deposit in the state. The taxes that were generated from that specific deposit funded most of the Utah educational system. Going back to my original point, long term, its the right thing to do. Short term, a lot of people got hurt. Overall I think it forced Utah to fund their schools differently and by in large we are better off now by being a little more diversified. I think the other reason the Utah delegates are outraged is that the Federal government already owns 80% of the land in Utah. There isn't another state in the union that the government has that much ownership.
Your comment about taxes from a coal mine in Grand Staircase funding most of the educational system is incorrect.

First of all, there was no mine there. Your comment states it was already funding most of the education system, but there was no mine. There was a proposed mine.

According to the NY Times, the mine would have provided $1 million/year to the county and $10 million/year to the state in taxes. Utah spends $5 billion/year on education.

Besides, coal is nearly obsolete.
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  #8509  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2017, 4:54 AM
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Stenar Stenar is offline
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Did any of you know that of our 5 national parks, 4 were first created as national monuments, and later converted to NPs by Congress? And Utahns had a big uproar when they were first created, yet pretty much everyone hails them as a great idea now.
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  #8510  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2017, 8:02 PM
millhouse millhouse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stenar View Post
Your comment about taxes from a coal mine in Grand Staircase funding most of the educational system is incorrect.

First of all, there was no mine there. Your comment states it was already funding most of the education system, but there was no mine. There was a proposed mine.

According to the NY Times, the mine would have provided $1 million/year to the county and $10 million/year to the state in taxes. Utah spends $5 billion/year on education.

Besides, coal is nearly obsolete.
Yes, it appears my recollection was incorrect. An item of note, the total Utah state budget in 1996 was 4.9 billion. The state spent about 2.1 billion in education that year. So even if the one mine, let alone the other two that were proposed, had opened the taxes would have contributed less than one percent to the education fund. The things you learn when someone else points out your wrong. Thanks.

http://governor.utah.gov/Budget/Budg...1996_SumBk.pdf

Last edited by millhouse; Jan 16, 2017 at 8:04 PM. Reason: 1996 State Budget
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  #8511  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2017, 8:11 PM
millhouse millhouse is offline
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Originally Posted by TheWire View Post
All of the SITLa sites were compensated by the federal government swapping other equivalent federal land in other places in Utah as well as mineral rights and $50M in cash. There actually weren't many people hurt in the end, short or long term. The reason why there was such a big uproar about Grand Staircase was that it nixed the creation of the Andalex Coal Mine which would have been one of the largest coal mines in the state.

When it comes to federal land ownership, check out this article. It does a great job of explaining why so much land in the west is owned by the federal government. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/u...-the-west.html
I know its not a big paper but I thought this was a good read. The author discusses the short term and long term effects of the monument designation.

http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060040270
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  #8512  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2017, 11:39 PM
asies1981 asies1981 is offline
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  #8513  
Old Posted Today, 12:26 AM
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TonyAnderson TonyAnderson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego-Honolulu View Post
I told you all this was going to happen. Nothing was going to be announced. Honestly with nothing being announced at this point and being probably at least four years if not more since an official announcement about the intent to build a convention hotel, this project is not going to happen. Jokes aside about how long it takes for Salt Lake City to get things done, this isn't normal for any city in the US. It seems to me this hotel project is on life support.
Cool, I suppose you can finally move on then or nah?
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