Calgary Railtown: Right Place for a New Ballpark?

[Riise]

Originally Posted by walli

Cricket is actually a lot more complex than baseball. Most of the people who make comments like this don't know all the rules, and generally speaking are baseball folks. As an example, the strategy behind hitting different ways to score different runs vis-a-vis the race against the overs - and the whole concept of partnerships. Fielding in cricket is also a lot more strategic and varied relative to baseball.

I'm with Walli, cricket is actually a decent sport. Some might find it weird how I despise baseball yet enjoy watching cricket. One reason why I prefer cricket to baseball is the duration of exciting plays/moments. In baseball you can quite easily miss the homerun that wins the game and even a grand-slam can occur quite quickly. However, in Cricket these plays, hitting a century for example, build up and take some time to play out. In baseball you can't tell your friend who's in the other room to come watch the homerun that's about to be hit but you can when a cricketer is about to go for the century.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

You obviously haven't seen cricket.

This man speaks the truth! I had the fortunate coincidence of being in India last month as the World Cup of Cricket was going on. That whole country was crazy for the game, but try as I might I couldn't figure it out(even with locals explaining it to me) or even get into it watching a game. I saw one amazing catch by a fat guy from Barbados but that was pretty much the only exciting part.

Hoo boy was India pissed when they got eliminated though! Burning effigies of players in the streets and demanding blood(or answers) for the shoddy play!

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by bob1954

I realize that most of you folks don't care for baseball, but Calgary has probably the best climate in North America (summertime) for baseball! Warm and no humidity! Pro baseball has 81 home stands each year, if the stadium is downtown it really adds to the activity, resturaunts, nightlife, ect., IMO.

Calgary has a terrible climate for WATCHING baseball. Even with the Northern League's much shorter schedule (40 home games ish?) it's damn cold at games during the beginning and end of the season. It's really only "nice" for baseball here for about 2 months - and even that's iffy. Going to a game when its 27C outside, and leaving when it's +10... how do you dress for this?

I'm personally a huge fan of watching live baseball, especially the minor leagues. It's relaxing, and most of the guys look like they're just out to have a good time - not bump their $15 million contract by another 10% next year. We don't have enough in the way of outdoor spectator sports in Canada - sorry, but the drunken screaming hordes at a football game get old very quick. I prefer my drunken hordes to be subdued and quiet

I'd personally LOVE a pro soccer league in Canada, even though I've never really been into the sport. But watching outdoor sports in the summer is a ton of fun.

[IntotheWest]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

You obviously haven't seen cricket.

Actually, I started typing that - and then thought I'd leave it just at baseball :-) All sports are personal preference, so, I retract saying "baseball sucks" - it does to me. Cricket is a game that can be played for days, with no real outcome (i.e. no winner)...that alone loses my interest.

Some argue British Football (yes, Premier league) is one of the most boring to watch, because 95% of games end with just one goal...Riise, you talk about missing the "grand-slam" in baseball - well, you have to admit, that its just as easy to miss that one goal ;-) (and hey, I really do like real football).

To me, I find any sport that stops/starts as frequently as baseball rather - well, slow. American (Canadian) Football is also like that to me.

Nothing compares to hockey (go Flames!), but soccer, basketball, and arguably lacrosse are some of the only sports I can actually sit down to watch.

[yads]

Originally Posted by skrish

People fail to realize that soccer is the number one particpant sport in terms of registered player (yes it is higher than hockey) in this country, but without the proper infrastructure there is no place for our ametuer players to develop.

What you fail to realize is that the reason it has such high participation here and in the US, is because a lot of parents would rather have their kids playing soccer than football or hockey. This results in kids who don't really care that much about the sport after they are done with it. This is one of the reasons that soccer has never caught on as a spectator sport in North America. This also means that soccer will continue to be a low priority sport when it comes to funding.

[walli]

Originally Posted by yads

What you fail to realize is that the reason it has such high participation here and in the US, is because a lot of parents would rather have their kids playing soccer than football or hockey. This results in kids who don't really care that much about the sport after they are done with it. This is one of the reasons that soccer has never caught on as a spectator sport in North America. This also means that soccer will continue to be a low priority sport when it comes to funding.

Right ... that's why Toronto's new MLS team sold out their 14,000 season tickets so fast, and that's why qualifying games in Edmonton always get over 55,000 watching.

BTW there were 841,466 registered players in Canada in 2005, up from 483,686 in 1995. Your theory does not explain the amazing growth in popularity.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by walli

Right ... that's why Toronto's new MLS team sold out their 14,000 season tickets so fast, and that's why qualifying games in Edmonton always get over 55,000 watching.

BTW there were 841,466 registered players in Canada in 2005, up from 483,686 in 1995. Your theory does not explain the amazing growth in popularity.

Yep, its not soccer that is unpopular... its the quality of soccer considered "professional" that is unpopular. Why go to rickety Foothills/McMahon Stadium to watch some A-League/PDL duffers when you can go to the pub and watch Man U/Chelsea/Juventus/Real, et.al play?

MLS and World Cup qualifiers are the closest we can get to that level, and its actually pretty good. If Calgary got off their collective asses and scored some U-20 games rather than not actually bid.... you'd see how popular it can be. MLS might be the key to Canadian soccer taking off, since its a good level of soccer that is deemed top notch and will be televised. Hopefully Calgary doesn't sit on its ass and watch that opportunity fly by when/if it comes.

[walli]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

If Calgary got off their collective asses and scored some U-20 games rather than not actually bid.... you'd see how popular it can be. MLS might be the key to Canadian soccer taking off, since its a good level of soccer that is deemed top notch and will be televised. Hopefully Calgary doesn't sit on its ass and watch that opportunity fly by when/if it comes.

The U-20 World Cup + the MLS team together resulted in Toronto getting their new soccer stadium. You're right ... the U-20 World Cup was a good opportunity lost for Calgary

[for those who are not aware, McMahon's surface is not appropriate for soccer]

[Riise]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

If Calgary got off their collective asses and scored some U-20 games rather than not actually bid.... you'd see how popular it can be. MLS might be the key to Canadian soccer taking off, since its a good level of soccer that is deemed top notch and will be televised. Hopefully Calgary doesn't sit on its ass and watch that opportunity fly by when/if it comes.

I will agree with you that Calgary missed a big opportunity but I have to disagree with your view on the MLS. When will North America learn that a Professional League will not spur interest and help the development system because those two things are prerequisites for a professional league? How many failed attempts must we go through? We need a better youth development system and amateur leagues for the graduates to play in. There they can be spotted by top European clubs who can give these kids the first class professional training we cannot provide. After we start developing enough skilled players to fill a professional pool, and the interest has organically grown to form and large enough fan base, we can then consider forming professional leagues. Leagues that will grow out of mature amateur leagues. The EPL, Eredivisie, and even the NHL and NLL all had strong amateur roots before they were formed, how is football in North America any different?

Originally Posted by walli

The U-20 World Cup + the MLS team together resulted in Toronto getting their new soccer stadium. You're right ... the U-20 World Cup was a good opportunity lost for Calgary

[for those who are not aware, McMahon's surface is not appropriate for soccer]

I do believe they have field turf now, however, I'm not sure if its the FIFA approved type.

[walli]

Originally Posted by Riise

I do believe they have field turf now, however, I'm not sure if its the FIFA approved type.

Well ... if it is FIFA approved, I would hope they would have tried to get one of the games here! My suspicion is that the field was not up to snuff.

[ibz]

Toronto's new field is being built with Fieldturf, so it must be approved for the FIFA U20, not sure if Calgarys is the same stuff though.

[walli]

BTW - just as we were comparing popularity of sports, and there was suggestion that baseball is more or as popular as soccer. Blue Jays game - 22,106 in attendance in a stadium built for over 50,000 in a city with 5,000,000 people.

[ibz]

You cant compare the two at all, apples and oranges. There are 81 home games a year in baseball...and the Jays last year averaged over 28,000 last year. Thats 2.3 million fans in the seats over the course of the season.

[walli]

Originally Posted by ryanE

You cant compare the two at all, apples and oranges. There are 81 home games a year in baseball...and the Jays last year averaged over 28,000 last year. Thats 2.3 million fans in the seats over the course of the season.

Good point. Without bogging us down in too much Toronto talk, I'll end by saying, perhaps a 30,000 stadium for baseball would have made better sense for them.

Back to Calgary, looking at the size of the site, probably only a medium baseball diamond could get in there. As my personal view is that a better soccer/football/lacrosse facility is needed, it is probably better filling this spot with more density. The new stadium can go in fire park.

[ibz]

A mixed stadium for Calgary would be allright, but I have no idea why anyone there would want to build a new baseball diamond, especially not one that holds more then 10,000 people. There is not a chance in hell AAA baseball will be returning to Alberta, and Im sure this experiment called the Northern League wont survive many more seasons. Even if it does, thats only a few thousand fans tops. Edmonton has a wonderful 10k seat ballpark in the river valley...too bad the only way to enjoy it now is watching a crumby baseball team run by clowns..its quite underused since the Trapper left.

[Jay in Cowtown]

Originally Posted by walli

Good point. Without bogging us down in too much Toronto talk, I'll end by saying, perhaps a 30,000 stadium for baseball would have made better sense for them.

Back to Calgary, looking at the size of the site, probably only a medium baseball diamond could get in there. As my personal view is that a better soccer/football/lacrosse facility is needed, it is probably better filling this spot with more density. The new stadium can go in fire park.

Not that Rogers Center is a dog or anything, but I'd bet more people would show up to games in a new outdoor park like most teams have... opposed to that oversized echoing culvert they play in now.

[CalgaryViper]

Originally Posted by walli

Well ... if it is FIFA approved, I would hope they would have tried to get one of the games here! My suspicion is that the field was not up to snuff.

McMahon's field cannot be FIFA approved as it has permanently painted football lines. I know that the Stamps pushed hard in favour of this are the primary tenant and this measure would save time and money. To keep the lines presentable on the old turf, it had to be repainted several times throughout the year.

Ottawa's Frank Clair Stadium can host FIFA matches as the football lines aren't permanent.

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by CalgaryViper

McMahon's field cannot be FIFA approved as it has permanently painted football lines. I know that the Stamps pushed hard in favour of this are the primary tenant and this measure would save time and money. To keep the lines presentable on the old turf, it had to be repainted several times throughout the year.

Ottawa's Frank Clair Stadium can host FIFA matches as the football lines aren't permanent.

f**king McMahon...

[Beltliner]

Originally Posted by CalgaryViper

McMahon's field cannot be FIFA approved as it has permanently painted football lines. I know that the Stamps pushed hard in favour of this are the primary tenant and this measure would save time and money. To keep the lines presentable on the old turf, it had to be repainted several times throughout the year.

Ottawa's Frank Clair Stadium can host FIFA matches as the football lines aren't permanent.

If the McMahon Stadium Society really wanted to lay down a FIFA-friendly surface for a World Cup match, they could either install an unmarked FieldTurf surface or put in grass tiles à la Giants Stadium or the Pontiac Silverdome as happened in 1994. Given this town's prior support for the Boomers--um, errr, Kickers--um, errr, Storm--um, errr, Mustangs--

[/belabouring the point]

--in previous incarnations of professional footy, however, a soccer-specific facility scalable over the long term to MLS specifications might be a better fit--perhaps as part of the eventual redevelopment of the GSL site.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Beltliner

If the McMahon Stadium Society really wanted to lay down a FIFA-friendly surface for a World Cup match, they could either install an unmarked FieldTurf surface or put in grass tiles à la Giants Stadium or the Pontiac Silverdome as happened in 1994. Given this town's prior support for the Boomers--um, errr, Kickers--um, errr, Storm--um, errr, Mustangs--

[/belabouring the point]

--in previous incarnations of professional footy, however, a soccer-specific facility scalable over the long term to MLS specifications might be a better fit--perhaps as part of the eventual redevelopment of the GSL site.

Exactly... thanks to shortsightedness and ineptitude, we're missing out and giving Edmonton something else to shove in our faces. Typically, support for soccer in Calgary, despite the Boomers, Kickers, Storm, Mustangs, et. al meeting their demise has actually been quite good. I remember when the Storm were in the playoffs, it was standing room only at Foothills, it was packed.

These teams failed typically for four reasons, poor ownership, fly-by-night league, shunning by media, and poor stadia. I love watching soccer, but I have to admit, watching it at Foothills and McMahon was painful.

There really should have been a compromise on the fieldturf. If hockey and lacrosse can co-exist in the same venue, then surely football and soccer could have. McMahon would be fine for MLS/Int'l Soccer if it had proper turf. Not exactly scenic or memorable as far as soccer stadia go, but still passable.