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  #141  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2005, 2:54 AM
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Originally Posted by sugit
I just do not undestand how getting financing plan can be so damn hard.
Don't the voters have to approve a proposition by 3/4 to get a loan like this?
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  #142  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2005, 2:56 AM
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^^ I'd grudgingly say hello new Natomas arena.
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  #143  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2005, 2:56 AM
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I don't think it needs to come down to that. I don't have the cost breakdowns from Turner Co. anymore, but depending on the location DT, it was only 100M more.
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  #144  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2005, 2:57 AM
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I agree..Natomas would suck, but at least we keep the Kings.

That's almost like saying if F500 company wanted to move its HQ to Sac and we said no unless you move DT.
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  #145  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2005, 2:58 AM
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Originally Posted by enigma99a
I don't think it needs to come down to that. I don't have the cost breakdowns from Turner Co. anymore, but depending on the location DT, it was only 100M more.
The K Street location was A LOT more than 100M more. The realistic estimates were like 700-800M. Buying out Westfeild would cost 200M in itself.

I really can't think of an "easy" DT location though. The city will just need to realize it's going to cost 400-500M+ to get it done DT.

Last edited by sugit; Nov 18, 2005 at 3:05 AM.
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  #146  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2005, 3:03 AM
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Originally Posted by sugit
Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma99a
I don't think it needs to come down to that. I don't have the cost breakdowns from Turner Co. anymore, but depending on the location DT, it was only 100M more.
The K Street location was A LOT more than 100M more. The realistic estimates were like 700-800M
Yes K st is a pipe dream. I think either the docks or railyards was in the 400 something range.
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  #147  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2005, 3:08 AM
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Its a whole another discussion, but something needs to be done to the K st mall, and I fear a proper revamp would in the billions. I hope someday Westfield will be willing to work with the city's funds to make something happen, probably not though
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  #148  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2005, 3:08 AM
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I don't think Mellenia wants the arena in the railyards

The docks might be the "easiest", but I would like site that is more imbeded in the real DT area. Not many access points though

Got to pay to play, I guess
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  #149  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2005, 3:15 AM
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Lastly, I want to say.... I think we have too many complex variables here.

First, we don't know where it will be built, so we don't know the cost... We are not saving the land for it.

And because of this, we don't know how much the Maloofs will need to pay for a fair share, and where other funding is coming from.

third, city leaders are doing a POOR job. Remember back when they decided on the 150M/150M split? Insane... But what about that 150M. 150M plus the Natomas land owners would have been 420M.. Enough for an arena. Hell with the Maloofs chipping in a small amount, it might have been easily in the Railyards or Docks.

Hope the Chamber has it right..... At least Step 1 has been figured out.. They are on a mission to bring it DT.
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  #150  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2005, 3:24 AM
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At least Step 1 has been figured out.. They are on a mission to bring it DT
Amen to that...
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  #151  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2005, 3:26 AM
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http://www.kcra.com/news/5351179/detail.html

Sacramento Chamber Says City Needs To Think Big
Chamber Pushing For Downtown Sports, Entertainment Arena

SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- Sacramento needs to stop thinking small and start acting big -- that's the conclusion of the Metro Chamber of Commerce, which is pushing for a downtown sports and entertainment arena after a fact-finding trip to a Midwestern city similar to Sacramento.

It was after a visit to Indianapolis and the Conseco Fieldhouse last month that Sacramento-area business leaders came away with a recurring theme.

It's not about Sacramento thinking big. We can think big. We (have to) act big and stop acting so damn small," said Sacramento business leader Bruce Starkweather.

"Observations of the Sacramento region, we think too small. We need to think bigger. That's no surprise," said Sacramento Metro Chamber of Commerce representative Dave Butler.

That assessment came during a Metro Chamber luncheon Thursday afternoon that addressed what to do about Arco Arena, which some say is already obsolete. The chamber said the next arena should go downtown, and area residents should look to Indianapolis as a city that does a lot of things right.

"Downtown is (Indianapolis') Disneyland. So, if you're a Californian, and you're promoting tourism in California, one of the things you promote is Disneyland. That's what they promote, is their downtown. That's their playground. That's their amusement park," Butler said.

Sacramento has looked at some downtown locations for a new arena, including a large chunk of Downtown Plaza near K Street and the old Union Pacific rail yard. But a spokesman for the mayor said those options are dead for now.

The Sacramento Kings organization is again trying to reassure the city and their fans.

"I don't want anybody to be confused about where our hearts are. It's right here in Sacramento," said President of Maloof Sports and Entertainment John Thomas.

The business leaders also said Sacramento needs to develop a region-wide strategy to come up with money for the project.
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  #152  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2005, 3:33 AM
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Originally Posted by sugit
The business leaders also said Sacramento needs to develop a region-wide strategy to come up with money for the project.
Whoever said that, thank you. This is a facility that all the cities in the area use. All of the municipalities need to work together, because it's a regional issue. Otherwise, Sacramento needs to take them over And we'll build it ourselves
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  #153  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2005, 3:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugit
http://www.kcra.com/news/5351179/detail.html

Sacramento Chamber Says City Needs To Think Big
Chamber Pushing For Downtown Sports, Entertainment Arena

SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- Sacramento needs to stop thinking small and start acting big -- that's the conclusion of the Metro Chamber of Commerce, which is pushing for a downtown sports and entertainment arena after a fact-finding trip to a Midwestern city similar to Sacramento.


It's not about Sacramento thinking big. We can think big. We (have to) act big and stop acting so damn small," said Sacramento business leader Bruce Starkweather.

"Observations of the Sacramento region, we think too small. We need to think bigger. That's no surprise," said Sacramento Metro Chamber of Commerce representative Dave Butler.

Now if our elected leaders at the City Council and Board of Supervisors would start thinking this way. Unfortunatley they are the biggest obstacle. (Or they've historically been)
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  #154  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2005, 3:42 AM
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This is dumb. Article after article after article and so on. Just ED whats needed on the K street small, TELL (and I empahsize the TELL part) the Maloofs the Arena is going on the such and such part of the K street mall and our studies have indicated it would cost xxx, accoriding to our studies the average fair share of a new area over the past x years is this, so $$ is your share in it.

I'm sure if the council got straight forward with them without all the bullshit negoiating they'd have a hard time saying no to that. Just fucking step up to the plate and tell the Maloofs how it is and get this shit going.

This is beyond ridiculous. I am so sick of this shit.
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  #155  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2005, 3:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Majin
This is dumb. Article after article after article and so on. Just ED whats needed on the K street small, TELL (and I empahsize the TELL part) the Maloofs the Arena is going on the such and such part of the K street mall and our studies have indicated it would cost xxx, accoriding to our studies the average fair share of a new area over the past x years is this, so $$ is your share in it.

I'm sure if the council got straight forward with them without all the bullshit negoiating they'd have a hard time saying no to that. Just fucking step up to the plate and tell the Maloofs how it is and get this shit going.

This is beyond ridiculous. I am so sick of this shit.

Wow, we're actually in agreement of the problem and the solution.


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  #156  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2005, 8:14 AM
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http://www.comstocksbusiness.com/ccr-story-1105.htm

Here are some highlights. Everything is so true.......


"Many of the equipment, seating and staging systems are even older than the arena building, having been recycled after three years of use in the original' Arco Arena." This was because the Lukenbill ownership group did not have the capital at the time to properly build and equip Arco Arena to 1988 standards.

When Lukenbill built Arco in 1988, the original roof had only a five-year lifespan. Seventeen years later, the roof has been repaired several times, but not replaced.

"The impact to the arena business is material because the configuration greatly limits the number of events that can be booked into the building and has already cost the market an indoor soccer franchise."

It's back-of-house facilities aren't seen by the average fan, but Arco Arena has smaller locker rooms, less kitchen space and fewer storage areas than newer arenas.

In addition to making it easier for people to get in and out of the arena, multiple concourses offer as many as double the points-of-sale for concessions that are available at Arco. This creates more sales opportunities for the NBA franchise, and reduces the waiting-in-line time for fans who want to buy T-shirts and caps.

But while Arco's shortcomings are readily apparent to local sportswriters who attend games at Arco and in Oakland, the difference isn't as apparent to local fans who attend Kings games but don't go to games out of town.


Non-fans -a huge group including many who are not sports fans and have never even seen the inside of Arco Arena ・are the most likely to insist that a new arena be built entirely with private money.

"What we need is some courageous elected official to help lead. We need two or three," Mahood says. "We need some folks in the business community to help lead. It's going to require a private-public partnership to fund a new arena. No single government jurisdiction is going to fund it ・the city's not big enough. The county is going to have to help. Other areas ・cities, counties ・could help."
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  #157  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2005, 2:16 PM
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Part of the problem is that both the City and County are sitting back hoping that the other will build a new arena. There is zero cooperation between the two, which considering how Sacramento County basically built a Triple A Ball Park for Yolo County, really irritates me.


Meanwhile the MaGoffs remain silent, casting a shadow over their true intentions...:sly
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  #158  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2005, 11:43 PM
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Nothing about an arena but intresting just the same.

Cha-Kings!
Cost to see game at Arco isn't deterrent

By Melody Gutierrez -- Bee Staff Writer
Published 2:15 am PST Sunday, November 20, 2005


If you need something to cool yourself off at Arco Arena, vendor Tim Taylor is just the man to see. He sells snow cones for $6 and lemonade for $4.50.

It's five minutes before tipoff on opening night, and the cash registers are still humming that familiar tune as fans filter into Arco Arena, picking up Kings dogs and 24-ounce Bud Lights on the way to their seats.
In a one-show town, Sacramento fans say they are willing to pay the inflated prices of concession stand food and the ever-increasing cost of tickets to see the Kings take the court.

On average, it costs $310.70 for a family of four to attend a game, when considering ticket prices, parking, food and souvenirs, according to a recent study by Chicago-based Team Marketing Report Inc.


Sacramento is the sixth-most expensive venue for fans of the NBA's 30 teams, according to the study, which concluded that the Golden State Warriors are the least expensive team.
A family of four can catch a Warriors game for $174.27.

So, how do impassioned Kings fans afford attending games these days? Here's a look:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While some people set aside money for Christmas shopping, others save for Kings tickets.
"That's Ben," said Pamela Wald of her husband, Ben Wald. The arena has special meaning for the Carmichael couple. They went to a Kings game on their first date in 1999.

"She wasn't a hard-core fan then, but she's getting there," Ben said.

He has been going to Kings games since they arrived in Sacramento in 1985, sitting in the same Section 121 every game.

"He got the tickets (back then) by pushing (on the phone) redial over and over," Pamela said.

Ben said he used to pay $18 to $20 for tickets that now retail at $140.

"Every year it's been a 10 percent increase," Ben said. "It's a lot, but I put aside money for it."

He shares two season tickets, valued at about $12,000, with three other people.

To split up the tickets, the foursome meet annually to have a draft.

"This year I had the first pick, and I chose the opening game," said Ben, an accountant.

He said they usually sell the tickets during the first round of the playoffs.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Feeling the material of an authentic Kings jersey at a counter outside the team store at Arco Arena, Ershad Ali debates whether he'll purchase one of the customized items, which go for $190 a pop.
Ali is a regular at Kings games, has been for years. He owns two season tickets, which he has had for four years, spending some $8,000 each season for them.

It's not chump change, Ali says, but he can't help himself.

"For me, it's hard to spend that much money," Ali said. But the business owner looks at it as an investment. His company, F.A. & Sons in Rancho Cordova, outfits some of the Kings with rims and tires, in "Pimp My Ride" fashion.

Ali said he sometimes fills the second seat with his 14-year-old son, one of his three daughters, his 65-year-old mom or a buddy.

"I try to go to every game, but it's a long season," Ali said.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Natasha Rice, 17, asks for the same birthday present every year - tickets to opening night. Sure, she's also fancying a new Kings jacket at the moment, a $100 black nylon one embroidered with purple jewels on the Kings lettering.
But at least she's a bargain shopper. Noticing a few jewels missing, she summoned a store employee to ask about a discount, while her parents looked on.

"Every opening game for the last five years, for her birthday that's all she wants," said mom Gaye Rice.

The Elk Grove family purchased four tickets on eBay, "nosebleed seats" said Gaye, for $119 on Nov. 3.

The seats are $10, but when sold on eBay, they retail for more. The Rice family paid three times face value and expected to spend around $300 total for the evening.

"It's worth it. We always have fun," Gaye said.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loading up the fixings on a hot dog, Russ Williams of Granite Bay just spent $22.75 to cover dinner for two. His 11-year-old son, Aaron, is feasting on a slice of pizza. Along with his hot dog, Russ has a $9.25 Bud Light.
"It's crazy," Williams said of how much he spent on his draft beer.

The two are in $40.50 seats, and Williams said he expected to spend some $200 during the evening.

He said he scrapes up the money wherever he can.

"It's hard," he said.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The hour-and-a-half commute from Brentwood doesn't keep Tom Burt from attending about 10 games a season.
Standing behind his seats on the top tier, Burt was especially excited about the season opener.

He brought his twin 5-year-old daughters to their first game.

"That's one of the neat things about coming here for parents," he said. "How cool is it to bring them to their first game when my parents used to bring me here?"

He also brought a co-worker, spending $65 on tickets he purchased from TicketMaster. He said he expected to spent about $150 after food, beer and souvenirs.

He said the price of attending a game is getting too high.

"Especially tonight, because it's opening night," he said. "The beers went from $8 to $10 in the offseason. It's amazing."

He said he has purchased tickets to nine games for this season.

"I'd say I have about $1,000 invested so far," he said. "It's pretty much you know when the tickets go on sale. You have to put money aside for it."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roma Vilash, 27, found a way to pay for her Kings addiction.
"I forgo shopping," said Vilash, of Sacramento.

She bought a packet of 10 games for $700, something she has done the last three years.

Seated next to her friend Valiant Ravarra, a first-time visitor to Arco Arena, she called the purchase of Kings tickets a "necessity."

As far as giving up shopping?

"No, she doesn't," Ravarra said.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Enrique Gonzalez found a way to keep the cost down when it comes to Kings games.
"I drink at home," he said, laughing.

In $25.50 seats, Gonzalez and Edgar Barajas, both of West Sacramento, said they usually spend about $50 each to attend a game.

Barajas said it's not the price that keeps them away.

"It's harder to get the tickets than it is to get the money," he said. "You'd spend just as much doing anything these days, like the movies."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the Cantina Bar on the fourth floor, Richard Iseger and Jeff Dagnault of Folsom drink beer served by a waitress as they watch the game on a projection screen.
Although they have seats on the upper level, the two remain planted at the bar, which overflows with beer-clenching fans before the game and at halftime.

Dagnault said if they don't have courtside seats, they will watch the game from the bar, which, on opening night, featured a variety band called Push Play.

With its purple walls, buffet-style food choices, full bar and Corona mini-bar stations, what's not to like?

"I just really don't like to walk to buy my beer," Dagnault said. "We socialize, too, aka meet women."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walking gingerly through a garlic fries-scented concourse, Darin Moore is what some would call a fanatic.
He has three season tickets and is currently trying to buy two more.

The developer from Fair Oaks uses the tickets to entertain clients. He also has season tickets for the Raiders.

Ask him what he spends, and his mind begins to add up the numbers, his eyes looking up as if asking his brain to calculate.

Not sure of the exact number, he shows his five tickets, which cost $89.50 each.

"It's the only game in town," he said to justify his obsession.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Kings game on just $40? Jason Taylor can do it. He gets $10 seats, pays the $10 parking, and then he has $20 for food.
The Kings fan in a Pistons jersey said he likes it when he can make it to Arco.

"The atmosphere is better than TV," Taylor said.
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  #159  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2005, 6:35 AM
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New Tsakopoulos proposal for a new arena...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacbee.com

http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports...14755073c.html

Tsakopoulos hands Kings new development-for-arena plan

By Mary Lynne Vellinga, Terri Hardy and R.E. Graswich -- Bee Staff Writers
Published 9:49 pm PST Tuesday, November 29, 2005
Get the latest news in sacbee.com's Kings Alert newsletter. Sign up here.

Local developer Angelo K. Tsakopoulos has submitted a new proposal to the Sacramento Kings that would involve rezoning agricultural land for development and using the profits to build an arena for the basketball team.

An earlier plan by Tsakopoulos to open up thousands of acres of North Natomas to development and use 20 percent of the profits for an arena fell apart in February after several landowners said they would not participate.

Sell It Yourself
Neither Tsakopoulos nor the Maloofs, owners of the Kings, would discuss Tuesday the details of the latest written proposal, or say exactly what portion of Tsakopoulos' extensive land holdings would be targeted for development.

"It's basically a deal similar to the one we talked about in North Natomas," Tsakopoulos said. "Some property has to be sold to raise the money for the arena."

Joe Maloof said the owners received the written proposal shortly before the Thanksgiving weekend. He said they need more time to evaluate the plan, but added, "There's an opportunity here."

Tsakopoulos did not sound optimistic on Tuesday, however. "We want the Kings to stay, and we want to do whatever we can to make that happen," he said. "I don't know what's going to happen, but I have to say, I don't think the chances are very good."

For months, Tsakopoulos has been talking to public officials and civic leaders about the idea of developing large tracts of rolling ranch land he owns on both sides of the El Dorado and Sacramento County lines, and paying for an arena with the proceeds.

Neither Tsakopoulos nor the Maloofs would specify which parcels were included, but people who have been briefed on Tsakopoulos' idea say it involves farmland that would have to be rezoned.

Tsakopoulos has large land holdings outside Sacramento County's urban growth boundary and outside any area contemplated for growth in the new El Dorado County general plan.

Public officials and planners in both counties said they didn't think the rezoning proposals would be an easy sell with the public, or could be accomplished in the rapid timeline needed to fund an arena.

The area lacks drinking water and major roads. Environmental groups have been working for years to establish southeastern Sacramento County as a permanent ranching corridor.

"That's an area that's been reserved for agricultural uses," said Peter Maurer, El Dorado County's director of planning services. "We've just completed a 12-year process of adopting a new general plan, and now we're going to change it to build a new Kings arena? It doesn't make sense."

Sacramento County Supervisor Don Nottoli, who represents the area, noted that it isn't designated for growth in Sacramento County's general plan. He said he doesn't think there's been a big shift in board sentiment since 1999, when the supervisors rejected a plan by developer C.C. Myers to build a gated senior community in the same vicinity.

Myers took his Deer Creek Hills proposal to the ballot, where it was rejected by 69 percent of voters despite his spending more than $2 million to promote it. The area has since been preserved as open space by the Sacramento Valley Conservancy.

"The people were pretty clear," Nottoli said.

If the Tsakopoulos funding proposal doesn't succeed, however, it's unclear where the Maloofs will turn to get the $400 million or so that they have said they need to replace Arco Arena, which they say is outmoded and undersized.

Local political consultants frequently cite polling data suggesting that Sacramento-area residents are unwilling to spend public money in order to fund professional sports facilities.

"There are people who have approached Gavin and me with ideas; a couple of them have merit," Maloof said. He offered no more specifics, however.

Tsakopoulos said the community has to decide if it wants the Kings to stay.

Previous arena discussions at Sacramento City Hall went nowhere. Mayor Heather Fargo twice tried and failed to advance plans to build a new arena downtown - either in the old Union Pacific railyard or at the end of Downtown Plaza. Both times, discussions fell apart over financing.

Maloof said Tuesday that his family still has no plans to move the Kings to another city, despite the rumor of a possible departure to Anaheim.

"We're going to stay focused and try to work something out," he said.

If the Maloofs did decide to leave town, they have no contractual obligations to the city that would tie them here, said city Treasurer Tom Friery.

In 1997, former Kings owner Jim Thomas in two separate loans borrowed more than $82 million from the city to keep the team afloat. The deal included an escape clause that obligated the team to stay in the city for 10 years, unless revenues and attendance slipped by certain amounts outlined in the contract.

During a player lockout in the 1998-99 season, the Kings lost money and met provisions outlined in the escape clause. It happened again in 2001, Friery said.

Although the team's financial fortunes turned around in following years, Friery said the team still would be able to exercise the escape clause.

"The Kings could give us notice, pay off the remainder of their loan and leave now," Friery said.

Friery said the Kings have given no such notice. If the Maloofs were to leave, they would be obligated to pay off their loan from the city. Friery estimated the balance at between $70 million and $72 million.

Watching developments in Sacramento will be Anaheim businessman Michael Schulman, the chairman of the board of Anaheim Arena Management, the private company that manages Anaheim's Arrowhead Pond Arena for the city under a long-term contract.

Schulman is also chief executive officer of the Anaheim Mighty Ducks National Hockey League franchise, which plays all its home games at the arena.

The arena and hockey team are both owned by Henry Samueli, the billionaire co-founder of wireless equipment maker Broadcom Corp.

Schulman declined to comment on possible meetings between members of the Maloof and Samueli families, saying: "I'm not going to answer that."

"My understanding is that their (the Maloofs') goal is to get a new arena in Sacramento and that if they don't get it, they will move," Schulman said.

"If the team wants to come here, the door is wide open," Schulman added.

"We're an arena that doesn't have a basketball team and we want one," Schulman said. "Our door is open to any team that wants to move here. And we don't have the corporate suite problem that Sacramento has - we have 82 suites."

The Bee's Mary Lynne Vellinga can be reached at (916) 321-1094 or mlvellinga@sacbee.com. Bee staff writer Andrew McIntosh contributed to this report.
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  #160  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2005, 6:38 AM
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Interesting: Anaheim want's the Kings? They should go after the Clippers.
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