Canada Day Traffic Chaos Takes Over Vancouver

[jlousa]

I China if you were sentenced to death via a firing squad the family would have to pay the cost of the ammunition as it was seen as a failure on their part not to keep you out of a life of crime. Not sure if that is still the case but I wouldn't be surprised if it still is.

Fences and nets don't work, if the person is determined they will find a way. over 90% of the time these people are looking for attention or compassion and have no intent on doing it. Those that do find more effective ways of doing it.

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by tintinium

I know this isn't Japan... but generally, something like this happens and the person's family is sued for the cost of the hold-up.

Even if a train stops in time, if it's during rush hour, there is a cost calculated for every passenger on the train and the family bears the burden of the cost... or the person, if they survive.

They hold people guilty by association there?

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by Hong Kongese

Luckily I didn't go to Vancouver as planned because of there was one or more stupid virus screwing around in my computer and I decided to stay home trying to get rid of it. I ended up have to format it and reinstall everything back on my desktop and it took me almost a whole day to do it.

that woulda caused me to jump off the Second Narrows

[paradigm4]

Originally Posted by lightrail

What is it with people on this board - build another bridge because I'm inconvenienced when there's an incident. How often does that happen? Not often. A third bridge will make absolutely no difference. As soon as you build it, more traffic will start travelling into the city, so when there's an incident on one of the bridges, you've got gridlock to the other two.

The best option is the third seabus and more buses over the existing bridges, when this is running, it will provide 33% more capacity and can be brought in as needed.

Get a grip!

I second this motion! You took the words right out of my mouth

[jlousa]

Or build a tunnel, it's a little harder to jump off a tunnel.

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

They hold people guilty by association there?

In part. Lets say you jump in front of a train, your family is billed for the cleanup and the delay, which will amount to thousands of dollars. This was done to stop people from doing this so much, as they may want to kill themselves, but they do not want to publicly "shame" their family, or cause them any stress by having to pay money. It has worked, and now they are finding more creative ways to kill themselves. Of course one could argue if they did this for the peoples sake, or because Japan really wants the trains to be on time... they apologize PROFUSELY for interrupting your busy day if the train is late by 30 seconds (which is VERY rare), which can then of course ripple down and make you late for all of your connections throughout the day

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I China if you were sentenced to death via a firing squad the family would have to pay the cost of the ammunition as it was seen as a failure on their part not to keep you out of a life of crime. Not sure if that is still the case but I wouldn't be surprised if it still is.

They do still do that. To me its pretty stupid, but its low on the list of China's problems in my mind.

Originally Posted by jlousa

Fences and nets don't work, if the person is determined they will find a way. over 90% of the time these people are looking for attention or compassion and have no intent on doing it. Those that do find more effective ways of doing it.

Yes, somebody recently jumped out of another unit where I own my rental apartment. I only found out because I know some of the residents. The media doesn't publicize those things just because of the attention issue.

Nets might solve the traffic chaos those incidents create though.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

They hold people guilty by association there?

And to add to Yume's post:
It's like a collective sense of responsibility. Japan's a "group" culture, (which has its positives and negatives).

Parents tend to take more responsibility for their kids' actions if they're more responsible for them.

It's of note, that in the case of mentally sick people, this charge isn't always applied... happened to someone I know who was a victim of domestic violence... the train was stopped in time (some old lady ran to the station master to stop the train) so they would've only had to pay for the delay (probably in the 10s of thousands as it was rush-hour) but as she was mentally unstable and sent to a hospital and they never saw the bill.

[Rusty Gull]

Transport minister blasts Vancouver cops over bridge closure

John Colebourn and Maria Cootauco
The Province

Thursday, July 03, 2008


Transport Minister Kevin Falcon has slammed the Vancouver police for shutting the Second Narrows bridge for six hours while they helped a suicidal woman.

"I think this is a good example of how not to do things," said Falcon. "I want answers.

"It was a terrible situation. I was very unhappy with how the Vancouver Police Department handled it.

"I am utterly perplexed how it can take six hours to deal with an elderly female.

"In my view it is not acceptable and I am not happy about it and don't want to see it happen again.

"The broader issue here is we have to think how we respond to issues like this much better."

Falcon, who was among the thousands trapped in the Canada Day traffic jam and eventually turned around, said his staff will review the closure.

The two North Vancouver mayors say they were bombarded with complaints after police shut the bridge.

"We had total gridlock on one of the busiest days of the summer," District of North Vancouver Mayor Richard Walton said yesterday.

"We are going to be debriefing about this and determine a very clear protocol.

"People waited six hot hours in their cars and that is not good."

City of North Vancouver Mayor Darrell Mussatto is demanding a full review of the closure.

Police said they had no choice but to close the bridge at 1 p.m. while they tried to rescue the woman.

"A life was in the balance," Vancouver Const. Tim Fanning said.

"We're certainly aware of the inconvenience it caused people.

"But people have to understand the measures were absolutely necessary to guarantee the safety of the woman."

He said the bridge was shut in both directions because officers needed quiet to talk to the woman who was under the bridge deck.

"We couldn't hear her," he said.

"The only way we could deal with it was to close it all down."

Police did talk the woman around.

"We were able to get her to safety and get her some help," he said.

Mussatto said police should consider keeping at least one side of the bridge open for traffic.

And he said a suicide barrier needs to be considered. "I think we should be looking at a suicide barrier and making sure people can't get underneath."

He also said it would be a nightmare to have a similar traffic snarl-up during the Olympics.

"That would really throw a wrench in the system," he said.

Walton agreed that a fence or barrier on the bridge to prevent suicides needs to be studied: "I can assure you that and other ideas will be put on the table."

Falcon said it would cost "millions of dollars" to retrofit a suicide barrier.

"If people are trying to kill themselves, it is tough to stop them," he said.

mcootauco@png.canwest.com

jcolebourn@png.canwest.com

[officedweller]

The Golden Ears Bridge will have a suiicide barrier along it's length.

[twoNeurons]

Falcon said it would cost "millions of dollars" to retrofit a suicide barrier.

"If people are trying to kill themselves, it is tough to stop them," he said.

That's sick... when the minister of transportation displays such a lack of human emotion.

OF COURSE it's tough to stop them... but if she wanted to kill herself, she would've done it. People don't sit on a bridge for 6 hours when they WANT to kill themselves. They want someone to show them some compassion. They want to know that there is someone who actually cares about them. They want to know that living IS worth it.

They generally don't want death... usually they feel that the world would be a better place without them... what Falcon is essentially saying here, is "why didn't they just push her and get it over with?"

[Yume-sama]

Well, it would be sicker if he was the minister of health.

He speaks the truth, only, not in a way he probably should have.

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by tintinium

...what Falcon is essentially saying here, is "why didn't they just push her and get it over with?"

he's only saying what most of us were thinking

[Nutterbug]

Falcon, who was among the thousands trapped in the Canada Day traffic jam and eventually turned around, said his staff will review the closure.

I'm glad somebody in an influential position was there to feel the brunt of the problem first-hand.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Distill3d

he's only saying what most of us were thinking

Right, but you can't do that as a public official. What if the police had said "oh well, we can't hear her, lets go back to the station".

I'm not saying a 6 hour closure was the right thing to do. As usual, it was an over-reaction, just in a different direction.

Everyone has to remember these are the same police under scrutiny for various other "non-compassionate" actions.

[Rusty Gull]

The problem is that the response was so over-the-top that it could have resulted in deaths from the traffic chaos. I'm talking about people trying to get to emergency rooms, folks stuck in tunnels/etc for five hours, accidents occurring etc.

The Mayor of North Vancouver is a former paramedic who has done many calls on the 2nd Narrows, and he said that never have they had to close all six lanes of traffic down (including the bike/pedestrian crossings, by the way)

[Smooth]

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

The problem is that the response was so over-the-top that it could have resulted in deaths from the traffic chaos. I'm talking about people trying to get to emergency rooms, folks stuck in tunnels/etc for five hours, accidents occurring etc.

The Mayor of North Vancouver is a former paramedic who has done many calls on the 2nd Narrows, and he said that never have they had to close all six lanes of traffic down (including the bike/pedestrian crossings, by the way)

I was just thinking that as well. All the lower portions of the North Shore were gridlock because of the closure. As ferries unloaded from Horseshoe Bay and people returned from Whistler the North Shore just filled up with cars. Areas like Deep Cove would have been very difficult to access for emergency crews.

My mom is a nurse at Lions Gate and she mentioned that they were having staffing issues at the hospital due to the closure.

I don't think it's justifiable to completely close the bridge for that long whenever we get a hesitant-jumper. I also don't think a suicide barrier would be effective. I'd like to know what the San Fransisco PD's policy is for dealing with suicidal people on the Golden Gate Bridge. I hear that bridge is a magnet for jumpers. I'm quite sure they never close the bridge.

[Smooth]

Originally Posted by lightrail

The best option is the third seabus and more buses over the existing bridges, when this is running, it will provide 33% more capacity and can be brought in as needed.

If there are 2 and you add 1 isn't that a 50% increase in capacity?

[MistyMountainHop]

Just put a massive net under it (and the Lions Gate too). You could let people jump into it for a tourist attraction!

[David]

Falcon, who was among the thousands trapped in the Canada Day traffic jam and eventually turned around, said his staff will review the closure.

Wasn't Falcon also the one who decided that a review on Vancouver's taxis was ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED only after *HE* couldn't get a taxi home one night?

Selfish...