Innes Rd new construction

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by Sens1992

Do you think that Starbucks on Innes is having a hard time staying in business? Don't think so.

hmm well if its a corporate run store then yes you are right. but i was under the impression that they are chain stores, individually owned.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by Sens1992

But what I am saying is that even if St.Jo. was a better place, more inviting, people would still favor the big ones.

I agree and i think it may because of all the parking on innes versus st joesph. orleans is totally car oriented and if you have a street with retail on it that has very limited parking theres going to be a problem.

[lrt's friend]

What you lose with the same stores and restaurants repeating over and over in big box centres in the suburbs is the reduction in overall product selection.

It is true that some independent stores will offer inferior product, prices and service, however, the opposite is also true, and it is those independent stores that we need to retain despite competition from the chains. Chances are, they will lose against this competition.

What we particularly lose is specialized products that big box stores simply can't offer because they are trying to satisfy everybody all within one store. Often the big box stores try to undercut the competition but their product range is designed to satisfy the majority, but not everybody.

This is particularly true with restaurants. Chains create a formula that will satisfy the majority, but for those wanting a quality dining experience or something different, they are left wanting.

By planning our suburbs to only accomodate chains, we leave out opportunities for businesses to offer specialized products, or diverse dining experiences.

[spotlight]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

What you lose with the same stores and restaurants repeating over and over in big box centres in the suburbs is the reduction in overall product selection.

It is true that some independent stores will offer inferior product, prices and service, however, the opposite is also true, and it is those independent stores that we need to retain despite competition from the chains. Chances are, they will lose against this competition.

What we particularly lose is specialized products that big box stores simply can't offer because they are trying to satisfy everybody all within one store. Often the big box stores try to undercut the competition but their product range is designed to satisfy the majority, but not everybody.

This is particularly true with restaurants. Chains create a formula that will satisfy the majority, but for those wanting a quality dining experience or something different, they are left wanting.

By planning our suburbs to only accomodate chains, we leave out opportunities for businesses to offer specialized products, or diverse dining experiences.

for diverse dining experience.. people go downtown... you can't expect suburbs to have all the services,amenities,variety, etc... that downtown offers.

the entire purpose and raison d'etre or suburbs is convenience and that normally spells chains

[CondoGirl]

Originally Posted by Sens1992

I totally agree with you that most of St.Joseph is gross. I fully agree that just by looking at the stores on Innes (esthetics), they win hands down compared to St.Jospeh (probably in service too in several of them). But what I am saying is that even if St.Jo. was a better place, more inviting, people would still favor the big ones.

I think you're touching on a matter of personal taste and perspective. IMO "gross" is not St. Joseph Blvd, "gross" is everything to do with Big Box: every time I drive by these stretchs I see the biggest eyesores in suburbia, not to mention cold, dehumanizing monoliths not unlike a Borg ship where the Collective -- soul deadened, brainwashed consumers -- wander mindlessly for their latest retail fix.

But I live downtown in a fraction of the space I could have in the 'burbs, walk most of the time, don't own a TV, and shop at SVdP... so clearly Big Box wasn't designed for the likes of me!

[Sens1992]

Originally Posted by CondoGirl

I think you're touching on a matter of personal taste and perspective. IMO "gross" is not St. Joseph Blvd, "gross" is everything to do with Big Box: every time I drive by these stretchs I see the biggest eyesores in suburbia, not to mention cold, dehumanizing monoliths not unlike a Borg ship where the Collective -- soul deadened, brainwashed consumers -- wander mindlessly for their latest retail fix.

Well I think St.Jo is not really attractive, thats what I mean. Many stores look run down and make you wanna go else where to spend your money. Streets like Bank st from Billings Bridge to pretty much downtown are really appealing to shoppers because both the city and merchants do their part to keep it up, but I am sorry, St.Jospeh is far from what Bank street looks like. I can see that you hate the Big Box Centres, so do I, for different reasons than yours, but unfortunalty, they look better, at least on Innes than mosts stores on St. Joseph.

I also think that these dehumanizing monoliths as you call them are only dehumanizing you if you feel that way around them. Finally, to say that people who shop there are soul deadened, brainwashed consumers, that's a bit of a stretch.

Remember, there is more than one vision in this world.

[Dundas]

image didnt work

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Sens1992

Well I think St.Jo is not really attractive, thats what I mean. Many stores look run down and make you wanna go else where to spend your money. Streets like Bank st from Billings Bridge to pretty much downtown are really appealing to shoppers because both the city and merchants do their part to keep it up, but I am sorry, St.Jospeh is far from what Bank street looks like. I can see that you hate the Big Box Centres, so do I, for different reasons than yours, but unfortunalty, they look better, at least on Innes than mosts stores on St. Joseph.

I also think that these dehumanizing monoliths as you call them are only dehumanizing you if you feel that way around them. Finally, to say that people who shop there are soul deadened, brainwashed consumers, that's a bit of a stretch.

Remember, there is more than one vision in this world.

I grew up in Orleans as well.

For all its faults, St-Joseph (compared to the new stuff of Innes at least) is at least retrofittable. The parking lots in front of most of the businesses on St-Joseph are small, which means the retail buildings are not separated from the street by a huge sea of asphalt. St-Joseph also has a decent tree cover and offers potential for an interesting integration with many residential streets nearby like St-Jean, Notre-Dame, Cousineau, etc.

Innes, really, has none of this, and giving it a more attractive urban feel would require much more work and money that urbanizing St-Joseph would.

[lrt's friend]

for diverse dining experience.. people go downtown... you can't expect suburbs to have all the services,amenities,variety, etc... that downtown offers.

the entire purpose and raison d'etre or suburbs is convenience and that normally spells chains

This may be true and always has been, but still we shouldn't deliberately plan the suburbs only for chains. At a time when we wish to encourage less driving, designing our cities should involve having more services closer to home. Let's face it, as congestion increases, downtown becomes less accessible for those living in the suburbs. And our transit plan is not making it any easier in the forseeable future.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

This may be true and always has been, but still we shouldn't deliberately plan the suburbs only for chains. At a time when we wish to encourage less driving, designing our cities should involve having more services closer to home. Let's face it, as congestion increases, downtown becomes less accessible for those living in the suburbs. And our transit plan is not making it any easier in the forseeable future.

Indeed. Many cities around the world have attractive suburbs that (from an urban perspective) tourists sometimes actually go and visit. Granted, they may not be able to rival the historic centre of their cities but there isn't such a dramatic drop-off in quality of built environment between centre and outskirts as there is between, say, the Byward Market and Merivale Road or Gréber in Gatineau.

[Dundas]

It be cool if there would be an multi level outdoor mall style shopping where the stores are more compact together so you could reach them with out driving all the time. With a multi level parking beside it.

I am curious to know what is goes to be built between Mer Bleue RD and the store Winners. There's a lot of land there nothing built yet. Does anyone have an idea?

[Sens1992]

Originally Posted by Dundas

It be cool if there would be an multi level outdoor mall style shopping where the stores are more compact together so you could reach them with out driving all the time. With a multi level parking beside it.

I am curious to know what is goes to be built between Mer Bleue RD and the store Winners. There's a lot of land there nothing built yet. Does anyone have an idea?

According to www.smartcentres.com, then in our centres, then Ontario, then Orleans and then Site Plan, you can see that there are plans to fill the gap between Winners / Homesense and Mer Bleue. It looks like more of the same big box retail with pads.

[bada$$]

Originally Posted by Sens1992

According to www.smartcentres.com, then in our centres, then Ontario, then Orleans and then Site Plan, you can see that there are plans to fill the gap between Winners / Homesense and Mer Bleue. It looks like more of the same big box retail with pads.

SmartCentres are selling the piece of land because its zoned residential. The city will not allow them to build any commercial on it. They are asking $19,000,000 if you're interested

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by bada$$

They are asking $19,000,000 if you're interested

Pocket change

[DEVPLAN]

Originally Posted by bada$$

SmartCentres are selling the piece of land because its zoned residential. The city will not allow them to build any commercial on it. They are asking $19,000,000 if you're interested

Ths SmartCentres property that fronts Innes road is zoned Arterial Main Street which permits a number of uses including retail, office, residential etc. They would be crazy to sell their land fronting Innes Road. I think your source could be wrong.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Sens1992

Also, Ottawa is weird... Every big box plaza being built is a newer copy of an old one. Barrhaven had once 3 localy owned (independant) restaurants: Terra Grill, Fiamma and Tuscan Grill. Terra Grill is now a Johnny Canuck's , Tuscan Grill is now closed and Fiamma has apparently changed owners and menus several times. Too bad that these places were better than the average franchise but Ottawa people prefer Boston Pizza, Montana's and Swiss Chalet...

Newsflash... businesses go under and change owners sometimes. That's just reality.

Remember that several Denny's restaurants across Ottawa have closed in recent years... so closing restaurants is not limited to independents.

Fiamma, even if it has changed owners, continues to be locally owned. Johnny Canucks is local... maybe not as classy as Terra Grill, but it is local. And Tuscan Grill is now a Fratelli, which while a chain, is a locally owned one.

I'm not sure I see the point of your examples.

I would also add: lack of taste. I love Ottawa, a copy and paste city!

I'm not sure how you can say that considering that you just listed 2 restaurants that are unique to Ottawa, and the restaurant that replaced the 3rd (Fratelli) is also unique to Ottawa.

[RTWAP]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I'm not sure how you can say that considering that you just listed 2 restaurants that are unique to Ottawa, and the restaurant that replaced the 3rd (Fratelli) is also unique to Ottawa.

Maybe he values unique restaurants of mediocre success, so any Ottawa restaurant with more than one location doesn't qualify.

And yes, I'm joking.

[Sens1992]

I'm not sure how you can say that considering that you just listed 2 restaurants that are unique to Ottawa, and the restaurant that replaced the 3rd (Fratelli) is also unique to Ottawa.[/QUOTE]

Okay then, Fratelli is a better than the others. As far as Johnny Canucks goes, well if thats up to your standards well great. I just wanted to point out that the people of Ottawa prefer by far Kelsey's, Boston Pizza, Montana's, East Side Mario's etc. than any other. Oh, I forgot, Johnny Canucks is local but gross and it is the perfect exemple of what I am pointing to, people will go there cause Ottawans love their burgers, fries and ribs (specially if frozen before serving). Hum, sounds tasty. Ottawa remains a city of very little taste.

[bada$$]

Originally Posted by DEVPLAN

Ths SmartCentres property that fronts Innes road is zoned Arterial Main Street which permits a number of uses including retail, office, residential etc. They would be crazy to sell their land fronting Innes Road. I think your source could be wrong.

I wonder why they have a sign saying for sale on it right on the propriety. I've also spoken to a rep from Smartcentre who says that they have to build condos or houses on the piece of land. SC doesn't do that and that is why they are selling it

[Dundas]

Innes Road & Belcourt Boulevard

It looks like they are building the final phase of their property. Which is B2, B3, and B4 on the pdf file on the link. The steel structure of B4 is up. Anyone know which tenants are going in?