Occupy Vancouver

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by touraccuracy

he'd make a good candidate. i'm at a loss to think of someone else still living that has been around long enough to witness all the economic and social changes of the 20th and 21st centuries while also influencing so many academic fields (computer science, mathematics, philosophy, linguistics, communications, and psychology). the guy's been a researcher at MIT for half a century and has immense knowledge on media, social movements, and social justice. who else would be in a better position to speak on this topic?

I don't know. One who hasn't described himself in his own words as an anarchist who (very ironically) also supports socialism?

He may be smart, but he's let his (confusingly scattered) political ideology take over. I think he'd actually be one person whose too far left to hypothetically be elected in Vancouver

Anywho, both Vancouver & Victoria have ordered the tents gone. They say the people can come back every day, they'll leave their stage and power source, but no tents or camping. Obviously this is not agreeable to them... it's far too reasonable!

[djmk]

Originally Posted by IanS

Well, it's not a clear sentence or two (to say the least), but now we do have a set of demands:

http://www.cbc.ca/bc/news/bc-111104-...er-demands.pdf

Apparently, this is only a draft document and should not be considered comprehensive.

I have to admit that I would agree about some of these demands. I would love so see the end of lobbyist and have "none-of the above" on my ballot. however, some of these items are laughable and even contradictory.

#40. we demand the release of all non-violent prisoners.

i would imagine this does not include the bankers from demand #3.

Also, as an accountant, I have never heard of the "dark pool of liquidity" tax loop hole. I went to university for 14 years and have had many years of experience, and I'm very surprised that the "occupiers" taught me something new. After I post this, I'm going straight to my trusty 3,000+ page income tax act (that I'm sure the occupiers studied diligently before their manifesto) to study this "dark pool of liquidity" tax loop hole. I'm sure I'm doing my clients a huge disfavour by not knowing this.

[Yume-sama]

Well, don't worry about those demands anyways. They have disavowed them said they're not official.

Wouldn't want anyone to think their protest actually had a clear point, after-all.

Neverminding the fact they're all pretty much unattainable on a local level, meaning they know their "protest" doesn't actually have an end game.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by touraccuracy

who else would be in a better position to speak on this topic?

Any intelligent person who is willing to be guided by reason, evidence and independent thought is in as good a position as anyone else to discover or verify philosophical truths.

Originally Posted by touraccuracy

the problem with some topics is that they're so complex that the average person can't even begin to grasp them without taking years out of their life to study the topic in detail. opinion leaders are a reasonable resource in complex debates. for example, i understand the gist of evolution but i've never handled any of the evidence myself and i have no understanding of how dna mutates, i largely have to side with the majority of scientists.

You have illustrated precisely why the logical fallacy argumentum ad verecundiam applies so perfectly in this situation. In the sciences, there is overwhelming agreement, if not total unanimity, on established scientific theories and laws, the truth of which can be strongly supported or conclusively proven through independent observation and experiment. But in the humanities, such as philosophy, there is no such agreement at all, even on the most fundamental and timeless issues faced by mankind, from metaphysics and epistemology to ethics and politics. Choose one hundred political philosophers at random, and you will get one hundred differing views on the ideal political system.

Thus, citing a famous thinker as supporting your philosophical argument carries no epistemological weight. What matters is the soundness of the argument itself, not the identity of any person who agrees with it.

[whatnext]

The Globe & Mail succinctly outlines how the Vision administration botched this whole issue, by ignoring the city's past experience:

The best way to end a protest camp is not to let one start in the first place – that was the lesson the city learned earlier this decade.

After dealing with a four-month squat in and outside the empty Woodward’s department store in 2002, along with homeless camps in several parks in 2003, the city’s legal department concluded that quick action is crucial.

That’s why the city has busted up protest camps with great alacrity in the past two years. One, during the Olympics, was taken down after two weeks. For a planned protest camp earlier this year at the Olympic Village, the city got an injunction in a single day to prevent a camp from being set up on private land near the village.

But police and city officials didn’t follow that same approach when the Occupy Vancouver protest got under way on Oct. 15 and tents started going up....
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle2228685/

[Yume-sama]

Calgary city council came up with a similar conclusion in their vote to seek removal of the protesters today

Best to have enforced the rules from the beginning for everyone...

[Prometheus]

And the city's failure to enforce its own by-laws in a timely manner has now all but guaranteed the very thing that Gregor and company professed they did not want: a violent outcome.

Not that things could get much worse than one near-death and one actual death.

[Yume-sama]

Supposedly things turned somewhat violent last night, and two police officers were sent to hospital after receiving... bite wounds lol
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...vancouver.html

Chu told reporters that a clash Monday night between police, firefighters and protesters proves it is no longer a peaceful exercise. He said protesters bent on violence have gone over the line.

"Last night, this element fought with firefighters and police, sending two police officers to hospital with human bite wounds," Chu said.

"Our officers received the full wrath of the protesters. In the scuffle, one officer had his ammunition clip stolen. This can no longer stand."

Chu said the once-peaceful protest has been infiltrated by dangerous people, creating a divide within the camp between militant and peaceful protesters.

Hope they test for rabies.

Here's a video of the little confrontation that erupted when the VFD tried to enter the site to put out a fire.

• Video Link

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

And the city's failure to enforce its own by-laws in a timely manner has now all but guaranteed the very thing that Gregor and company professed they did not want: a violent outcome.

Not that things could get much worse than one near-death and one actual death.

Drug overdoses in the streets of Vancouver have nothing to do with the Occupy Vancouver protest or any protest. They're an every day occurrence, regardless. You'd have to be quite naive to think this protest is responsible for two drug overdoses.

Really these squatters are using the occupy protest as an avenue to get in the face of the public and politicians and force them to acknowledge their existence, because normally they are treated as if they are not there, they are dismissed and dehumanized by being labeled as "junkies" and "crackheads". Maybe this is an opportunity for them to feel like they matter.

[osirisboy]

well they dont matter so lets move on

[Yume-sama]

Global just aired a segment interviewing one of the original occupiers who has left the group due to its takeover and being made in to a circus.

And, some guy threatened a riot in a church while interrupting the mayoral debate lol

Saying Roberston will be responsible for another riot if he tries to shut them down.

[whatnext]

Another clip illustrating the true nature of the Occu-idiots who, not content with usurping OUR public space, feel they have the right to shout down anyone else (as they did at the mayoralty debate). Pathetic bunch of losers.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI83Q...ature=youtu.be

[whatnext]

Surprised nobody's mentioned the effect of Occupy on the food cart vendors:

..they’ve lost their regulars “who have set paths, won’t deviate a block or don’t know where they’ve moved to,” says Neild. He says some protesters were urinating in front of the carts, harassing owners for free food and being racist towards friends he had sent to support the businesses. “I think the protesters need to know they’re killing these small businesses, but they don’t care at all...

http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/B...501/story.html

[GeeCee]

Probably because nobody else cares anymore but you keep bumping the thread.

[WarrenC12]

I care as a Vancouver taxpayer and downtown resident.

However neither major party will provide much help if elected tomorrow.

[Innersoul1]

Pot smoking hippies!

[LeftCoaster]

Yeah right.

The pot smoking hippies left ages ago, all that's left are heroin injecting junkies.

[WarrenC12]

On that note, injunction granted by the judge today. Not sure on the deadline yet, but in the mean time GTFO.

[AdrianT]

They have to clear out by 2pm Monday. Finally

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle2241873/

Anyone know if they'll move the Christmas Tree lighting back to the Art Gallery now that they're clearing them out? or will it stay at Jack Poole Plaza.

[BCPhil]

I just saw it on the news. I find it funny how when the cameras are down there to report on the overdose death the people of Occupy Vancouver were all like "don't film us, this is private". But today today they are all jumping infront of the camera all like "look at me!".