Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[esquire]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

Hockey Canada thought they could combat this issue in Toronto and Montreal by letting them host back-to-back, with the cities alternating as the primary host.

The result was alright for the first tournament, but there was a major drop-off in interest two years later. No one in either city cared at that point.

I think the interest is there, it's stratospheric ticket pricing that kills it. Junior hockey is a small town, twenty bucks a ticket kind of event. Putting it in Toronto and charging $200 a pop or whatever, well, good for Hockey Canada and the IIHF if they think they can sell that ticket, but most people just tune out at those prices and maybe just opt to watch on TV instead.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I doubt that the NLL would make it in Moncton. There really isn't a lacrosse tradition in this province. Box lacrosse only arrived in the city about 15 years ago, and one of my sons played house league for a couple of years. The house league is only moderately successful.

I doubt any of the cities that have teams in the NLL have lacrosse traditions. The games are affordable family-friendly entertainment spectacles. I believe a team relocated to Halifax last season so Moncton would have a natural rivalry if they joined the league. Moncton should try to position itself as the sports entertainment capital of the Maritimes by landing an NLL franchise and then beating Halifax out to get a CFL team. Halifax had like 85 years to build a stadium so if they lose out tough shit for them--they can drive to Moncton for games.

[esquire]

Lacrosse is a niche sport at best but with the right amount of marketing you can make it a hot ticket. It has really caught on in Saskatoon, for example.

[SHOFEAR]

Originally Posted by esquire

I think the interest is there, it's stratospheric ticket pricing that kills it. Junior hockey is a small town, twenty bucks a ticket kind of event. Putting it in Toronto and charging $200 a pop or whatever, well, good for Hockey Canada and the IIHF if they think they can sell that ticket, but most people just tune out at those prices and maybe just opt to watch on TV instead.

I find myself caring about this event less and less each year. It was more fun when it was held in smaller non NHL cities.

15 or so years ago it would have been a fun vacation to go to a place like Halifax or Saskatoon and take in the games...now I can't even be interested in purchasing tickets for next year even though its here in Edmonton.

It's a Cash Cow for hockey Canada and the IIHF and I can't see a return to non NHL cities unless a Edmonton-Red Deer type of scenario.

Perhaps my lack of interest is a result of additional factors. I miss the days when Team Canada had players like Dion Phaneuf who were absolute wrecking balls to those European kids who have never seen such physical hockey. It was fun being the bad guys and the dram of having European refs calling bullshit calls on devastating big hits.

[SaskScraper]

^^
I'd like to see smaller centres like Moncton and London, ON get World Junior Hockey Championships in the years to come. I agree it's the non-NHL cities that stand to get the greatest benefit from these tournaments.

Originally Posted by Corndogger
Based on the photo I'd say you guys got good bang for the buck. Do you think Moncton could support an NLL team? It would add ~ 10 to 13 dates to the arena helping to make it more financially stable. Being the only pro sport in the area I think it would be doable.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

...I doubt that the NLL would make it in Moncton. There really isn't a lacrosse tradition in this province. Box lacrosse only arrived in the city about 15 years ago, and one of my sons played house league for a couple of years. The house league is only moderately successful...

I also like the idea of cities like Moncton, Regina, maybe a Southern Ontario city or Ottawa or Quebec or something getting NLL teams too someday, after the league grows by a division or two more. The NLL run mostly in NHL sized arenas, >10 thousand seats as a bare minimum though, Mohegan Sun Arena is by far the smallest arena in the league to have a team but is supported by a multi $Billion revenue Casino complex adjoining.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Lacrosse_League

[EpicPonyTime]

NLL is never going to go to Moncton, so this conversation is a moot point. The league's expansion plans are clearly focused on larger markets, and even Saskatoon and Halifax are a magnitude larger than Moncton.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

NLL is never going to go to Moncton, so this conversation is a moot point. The league's expansion plans are clearly focused on larger markets, and even Saskatoon and Halifax are a magnitude larger than Moncton.

I agree that Moncton isn’t getting an NLL team, but the Moncton CMA has about 155,000 people, so Saskatoon & Halifax are only 2.5-3x larger than Moncton, not “an order of magnitude”

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I agree that Moncton isn’t getting an NLL team, but the Moncton CMA has about 155,000 people, so Saskatoon & Halifax are only 2.5-3x larger than Moncton, not “an order of magnitude”

Not just the metro population that matters.

I know for the Rush in Saskatoon a lot of ticket holders travel from farther away to attend games. I have family that are season ticket holders and travel two hours each way for every game. Moncton could support a team but it would have to be done right. An owner with deepish pockets and a team embracing the province or region, ie NB team not Moncton team.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Not just the metro population that matters.

I know for the Rush in Saskatoon a lot of ticket holders travel from farther away to attend games. I have family that are season ticket holders and travel two hours each way for every game. Moncton could support a team but it would have to be done right. An owner with deepish pockets and a team embracing the province or region, ie NB team not Moncton team.

Plus, it's only about 10 home games/season which would make it comparable to the CFL. If the team was marketed correctly they could be successful.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Not just the metro population that matters.

I know for the Rush in Saskatoon a lot of ticket holders travel from farther away to attend games. I have family that are season ticket holders and travel two hours each way for every game. Moncton could support a team but it would have to be done right. An owner with deepish pockets and a team embracing the province or region, ie NB team not Moncton team.

Nothing makes q12's blood boil faster than a discussion about whether Moncton or Halifax has a larger "catchment" population, so I'm not going to go there...........

[SaskScraper]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

NLL is never going to go to Moncton, so this conversation is a moot point. The league's expansion plans are clearly focused on larger markets, and even Saskatoon and Halifax are a magnitude larger than Moncton.

That does seem to be the commissioners main goal...

"NLL commissioner Nick Sakiewicz said expansion conversations have been held with 36 cities or ownership groups, adding “there’s a high degree of interest".The most serious talks have been with NHL and NBA teams."
https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/pro/nl...-grain-of-salt

"WE WANT 18-20 TEAMS QUICKLY. ULTIMATELY, OVER THE NEXT DECADE, I BELIEVE 30 TEAMS OR MAYBE MORE" NLL COMMISSIONER NICK SAKIEWICZ Sept 2017

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I agree that Moncton isn’t getting an NLL team, but the Moncton CMA has about 155,000 people, so Saskatoon & Halifax are only 2.5-3x larger than Moncton, not “an order of magnitude”

Never say never, Saskatoon was on potential expansion list only when Edmonton team became available. The Saskatchewan success blueprint paved the way for a lot more interest in existing teams to uproot and move to new Canadian markets. Though if the Halifax team remains near bottom of attendance for the league, & even though it would be below average league attendance from the start, the Moncton arena could at least be a temporary home for a relocated team.

NLL expansion teams on the other hand seem to be mostly in The States, with Dallas currently believed to be at top of the list.
https://prolacrossetalk.com/nll-unve...ure-expansion/

Others include, Chicago, Minnesota, Detroit, Columbus, St. Louis, Nashville, Kansas City, Arkansas, Oklahoma City, Tulsa.
https://oneilllacrosse.com/blogs/pos...ground-in-west

In the last few years American cities mentioned include Pittsburgh, New Hampshire, Bay Area, Cleveland, Milwaukee, DC, Utah, New Jersey, Las Vegas, Tampa Bay, Seattle, Utah, plus even a few Canadian cities with NHL sized arenas.
https://inlacrossewetrust.com/what-t...kets-could-be/

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

I find myself caring about this event less and less each year. It was more fun when it was held in smaller non NHL cities.

15 or so years ago it would have been a fun vacation to go to a place like Halifax or Saskatoon and take in the games...now I can't even be interested in purchasing tickets for next year even though its here in Edmonton.

It's a Cash Cow for hockey Canada and the IIHF and I can't see a return to non NHL cities unless a Edmonton-Red Deer type of scenario.

Perhaps my lack of interest is a result of additional factors. I miss the days when Team Canada had players like Dion Phaneuf who were absolute wrecking balls to those European kids who have never seen such physical hockey. It was fun being the bad guys and the dram of having European refs calling bullshit calls on devastating big hits.

A
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[Nathan2280]

I would like to see baseball league resurface in Canada across the whole country. Ferguson Jenkins had one pop up in early 00s but died after one season. At least someone should start building the ball parks so something could move forward

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

Never say never, Saskatoon was on potential expansion list only when Edmonton team became available. The Saskatchewan success blueprint paved the way for a lot more interest in existing teams to uproot and move to new Canadian markets. Though if the Halifax team remains near bottom of attendance for the league, & even though it would be below average league attendance from the start, the Moncton arena could at least be a temporary home for a relocated team.

I imagine Edmonton and Winnipeg would be the top two Canadian cities for the NLL. The Oilers would probably love a team to fill up more dates at Rogers Place, plus there's natural rivalries with the other Western Canadian teams.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

I imagine Edmonton and Winnipeg would be the top two Canadian cities for the NLL. The Oilers would probably love a team to fill up more dates at Rogers Place, plus there's natural rivalries with the other Western Canadian teams.

Edmonton did have a team and they ended up moving to Saskatoon due to lack of fan support. Have the Oilers ownership shown any interest in owning a team? Or is the league not ready to give Edmonton another shot at a team?

[MacLac]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Edmonton did have a team and they ended up moving to Saskatoon due to lack of fan support. Have the Oilers ownership shown any interest in owning a team? Or is the league not ready to give Edmonton another shot at a team?

Nope! Not lack of fan support at all.....lack of the city's support....they never offered Rogers as a host venue......they own it. And the owner didn't want to sell to Katz....or else they would be playing in Rogers. But I did remember hearing that the OEG said they did want a team one day.....no biggie.....who cares.....

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Edmonton did have a team and they ended up moving to Saskatoon due to lack of fan support. Have the Oilers ownership shown any interest in owning a team? Or is the league not ready to give Edmonton another shot at a team?

One of the primary reasons the Rush left was because of the various disagreements between them and the Oilers. The Oilers never let the Rush put up advertisements or maintain a real presence in Rexall and so it limited their marketability. When it came time to move downtown they ultimately couldn't come to an agreement with the city to lease Rogers Place, which forced them to leave town (I don't think an exact reason why they couldn't reach an agreement has ever been said; you'd think the city with a brand new arena district would want to attract as many people as possible). Fan support was an issue, but it wasn't what led to the relocation.

I imagine the NLL would jump at the chance to have a team back in Edmonton, but it depends on the Oilers. There's been various rumours over the years that OSEG is interested in getting a team to fill dates a'la the Canucks/Warriors and Flames/Roughnecks, but nothing seems to have happened yet. I imagine if they officially decided to ask for one, they'd be granted one as quick as the league could do so.

[esquire]

I don't see there being much grassroots demand for the NLL in Winnipeg but I suppose that's what marketing departments are for.

I would guess that the most realistic path for Winnipeg to get a NLL team would be if the Manitoba Moose AHL team moved somewhere else, freeing up a bunch of arena dates and TNSE resources to reallocate to a NLL team instead.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by esquire

I don't see there being much grassroots demand for the NLL in Winnipeg but I suppose that's what marketing departments are for.

I would guess that the most realistic path for Winnipeg to get a NLL team would be if the Manitoba Moose AHL team moved somewhere else, freeing up a bunch of arena dates and TNSE resources to reallocate to a NLL team instead.

Calgary accommodates NHL, WHL and NLL in the same arena. NLL is only 9 home games in the regular season.

[Boreal]

I would agree with esquire, that there is likely next to zero demand for box lacrosse at the professional level in Manitoba. It isn't on the radar screen of many, if I were to hazard a guess. I think there are plenty of big sports fans that couldn't name one player in the whole league. I think it's tremendous that it has caught on in certain markets, I just don't see Winnipeg as being in that league now or any time in the near future. Soccer and basketball appear to have far more explosive growth potential in our local market.