New Downtown Calgary Arena

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by suburbia

UC-LAW - look at the numbers from nick.flood that I quoted. It showed percentages in 1998 and 2005 for both soccer and baseball, so those numbers answered your question.

They did not answer his question in the slightest.

Just because something is extremely popular in participation does not mean that it will be popular as a spectator sport. I play pool at a competitive level and the same types of studies are often quoted in an attempt to boost the interest of sponsors into the game but it does not work. Alot of people may casually play pool, alot might even partake in league play, but most of the people who "play" pool don't enjoy "watching" it be played, even at a professional level and thus the sport fails to get any viewership and the people who play it professionally make almost no money relative to other sports.

Kids might be playing soccer, some adults might be playing soccer in leagues, but that does not mean that all of those people are automatically going to be interested in going out and "watching" other people play soccer and paying money to do it. It is that interest people have in "watching" a sport where the money comes from and that leads to the ultimate success and failure of a professional sport.

[nick.flood]

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[UC-LAW]

Originally Posted by ZeDgE

Is that a serious question?

no it wasn't. Because soccer isn't; atleast to me anyways.

I love baseball, great sport. so many things that go on that the average person doesn't realize.

Do you know how hard it is to throw a slider?

anyways my posts are not to get into a subjective debate on which sport is "better". so I hope we will not get into that.

Anecdotally though, baseball is a far more popular sport to watch than soccer. i have friends that play both but in terms of watching professional games, the numbers are definately one sided (other than the World Cup which many people watch so as to go and have a few beers)

What happens in 20 years? who knows... but Calgary would more likely get an MLS franchise than an MLB franchise. Do we have anyone here willing to spend 2 billion on a baseball franchise and another 100 million a year on salaries? doubtful

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by UC-LAW

Anecdotally though, baseball is a far more popular sport to watch than soccer. i have friends that play both but in terms of watching professional games, the numbers are definately one sided (other than the World Cup which many people watch so as to go and have a few beers)

Say what? Do you have numbers to back this up? I find this a bit amusing to me honest. Billions watch the world cup, not to mention Champions league, Euro cup etc. Even the leagues in Europe and other parts of the world have huge viewer ship. Stadiums that seat 70k plus full for every game. Its not even a fair comparison. Soccer destroys baseball as far as fans and viewer ship or anything for that matter.. Maybe in your 'baseball bubble' this is true but cmon now. Just wow..

[fusili]

Originally Posted by UC-LAW

Do you know how hard it is to throw a slider?

Anecdotally though, baseball is a far more popular sport to watch than soccer. i have friends that play both but in terms of watching professional games, the numbers are definately one sided (other than the World Cup which many people watch so as to go and have a few beers)

Throwing a slider is nowhere near as hard as watching a single inning of that recreational activity (I refuse to call it a sport). I don't care how hard it is- that "sport" sucks.

Despite anecdotal evidence to the contrary, soccer is by far much more popular than baseball. The World Cup is the most watched event in the entire world (more than the summer Olympics). Something like 4 billion people watch the final match. My friend lives in Madrid and was there when Spain won last world cup. I believe over a million people were in the street celebrating.

Sorry to break this to you, but three countries in the world watch baseball (USA, Cuba, Japan), while every single country in the entire world enters a team for the world cup (except the Vatican and a few other city states). Even Bhutan and Montserrat enter teams. I mean, they suck really bad, but they do.

Baseball is fine, and you may like it, but saying that somehow this means it is more popular than soccer is lunacy.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by nick.flood

Haha. Yet you claim that Calgary will get a MLB franchise because they will get lots of support from surrounding communites and rural areas where softball is HUGE.

Baseball way bigger "than" soccer in this country?

Baseball and softball in the rural areas is huge in not only participation but as a spectator sport. Baseball tournaments bring out the whole community for the most part, players and spectators alike.

The draw that baseball can have on this country cannot be denied when looking at the 90's Blue Jays fever that swept across the entire of Canada.

As a "spectator" sport, I think baseball would do ALOT better then soccer in Canada. Your opinion may differ, that is cool, I am OK with that.

[Ayreonaut]

In spending my first two decades in Southern Alberta, I've met two people that watch baseball.
It was one of the first things I noticed when I came to St. John's - kids in my classes actually talking about the MLB. It was a foreign experience for me.

I know a lot of people that watch soccer, though. Mostly international games, Premier League, and Champions League.

[Ayreonaut]

Originally Posted by Tropics

The draw that baseball can have on this country cannot be denied when looking at the 90's Blue Jays fever that swept across the entire of Canada.

So the MLB would do fine as long as the team makes the World Series every year.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by Ayreonaut

So the MLB would do fine as long as the team makes the World Series every year.

As I said.

Originally Posted by Tropics

Your opinion may differ, that is cool, I am OK with that.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Ayreonaut

In spending my first two decades in Southern Alberta, I've met two people that watch baseball.

You've now met 3 (if online forums count). I love minor league baseball, in a decent facility. Foothills is a shithole, otherwise I'd probably have Vipers season tickets. It's relaxing, it's interesting, and anyone who is a statistics nerd should look into Baseball. It's one of if not the most analyzed sport from that perspective.

Baseball to me is a lot like curling. A lot of standing around, punctuated by brief moments of exciting action where millimetres count. Mind you, I also find Football to be somewhat like this. Soccer is plenty of running around with not much going on other than passing, with the occasional bit of excitement interrupting the diving and ref begging.

And all of these sports garner huge spectator audiences in the right places. Although an MLB franchise in Calgary is ... well laughable isn't a strong enough term. Calgary's baseball season is 3 months AT BEST.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by UC-LAW

Do you know how hard it is to throw a slider?

l

Maybe throwing a slider is hard, but this goal by Roberto Carlos is almost physically impossible.

YouTube Link (I still can't figure out how to embed in SSP).

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by Tropics

As a "spectator" sport, I think baseball would do ALOT better then soccer in Canada. Your opinion may differ, that is cool, I am OK with that.

I would like to know what alternate reality you live in?

There is one pro baseball team in this country which can barely muster 25k attendance, and what happened to the other team if its so good? We now have three MLS teams drawing crowds over 50k at some games. Soccer is on the upswing in North America, thats just a fact. World wide its not even open for discussion. Cricket or Rugby are bigger world wide for petes sake. Its fine if you like baseball, but soccer is already surpassing it as a spectator sport in this country, there is alot more desire for it.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by fusili

Maybe throwing a slider is hard, but this goal by Roberto Carlos is almost physically impossible.

YouTube Link (I still can't figure out how to embed in SSP).

[ youtube ] 6nHUCyNkezI [ /youtube ] <-- with no spaces

• Video Link

(Just quote my post and compare it to your link and you might have the light bulb go off)

That sort of goal happens in hockey from time to time. Plus, it's easy to curve the ball in soccer (semi-ironically, he's doing something baseball pitchers do all the time). Very, very skilled player - but impossible? Not by a long shot. I can't even imagine how *I* would do it but I can see how someone with tremendous skill does it. The only reason it's so impressive is that scoring in soccer is about as rare as scoring at church.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by freeweed

The only reason it's so impressive is that scoring in soccer is about as rare as scoring at church.

You just won the internets. That made my night.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by ZeDgE

I would like to know what alternate reality you live in?

There is one pro baseball team in this country which can barely muster 25k attendance, and what happened to the other team if its so good? We now have three MLS teams drawing crowds over 50k at some games.

It is simply the real reality.

Montreal did draw 58,912+ on March 17, 2012 in their franchise opener, but they also drew 23,120 to their second home game.

Vancouver drew 21,000 fans to the March 10th game, they drew 19,394 fans to their March 24, 2012 game.

Toronto drew 20,070 fans to the March 24, 2012 game, they drew 23,120 fans to the next on April 7 2012.

These are by no means disrespectful numbers, but your claim that we have three Canadian teams pulling in 50k+ fans at some games is BS, we have ONE team that did that ONE time. I don't mind debating this but if you are going to start pulling out numbers to push your arguement how about using real ones?

Of all the cities in Canada where soccer might really work I think it would be Montreal, I would NEVER have bet against them supporting soccer, but that market is nothing like Calgary. Toronto can support almost anyting given their size. Vancouver will have to work hard for their soccer team to not end up like their basketball team that so many people thought the city would support, instead that just ended up being a huge waste of money.

[Ramsayfarian]

I can watch soccer highlights all freakin' day, but watching an entire game is like watching paint dry for me.

[DizzyEdge]

Going to a baseball game is like going to a bbq. You enjoy the sun, drink some beer, eat a hotdog, and maybe watch the kids play croque..er watch the game. It's enjoyable.

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by Tropics

It is simply the real reality.

Montreal did draw 58,912+ on March 17, 2012 in their franchise opener, but they also drew 23,120 to their second home game.

Vancouver drew 21,000 fans to the March 10th game, they drew 19,394 fans to their March 24, 2012 game.

Toronto drew 20,070 fans to the March 24, 2012 game, they drew 23,120 fans to the next on April 7 2012.

These are by no means disrespectful numbers, but your claim that we have three Canadian teams pulling in 50k+ fans at some games is BS, we have ONE team that did that ONE time. I don't mind debating this but if you are going to start pulling out numbers to push your arguement how about using real ones?

Of all the cities in Canada where soccer might really work I think it would be Montreal, I would NEVER have bet against them supporting soccer, but that market is nothing like Calgary. Toronto can support almost anyting given their size. Vancouver will have to work hard for their soccer team to not end up like their basketball team that so many people thought the city would support, instead that just ended up being a huge waste of money.

You realize that 21k in Van is pretty much a sell out. Same for Toronto. and Montreal when they move to their permanent home. Also the TFC Galaxy game in Toronto drew 47k at Rogers Centre, so not just one game. Most MLS stadiums are around 20k, Seattle is one exception that draws 35k a game. They have an awesome stadium though. Calgary with a decent stadium could draw 20k for an MLS team if we tried. Better than baseball, how many teams have we had? 3, 4? Who could barely muster a couple thousand, usually hundreds. And they have a proper stadium, unlike the pathetic attempts we have had at soccer in this city, such a bloody waste. And regarding numbers..show me some. Where are all these baseball games happening with 20k or more all over Canada? Looks like one city, one team to me. Rest of the country couldn't care less. Our large immigrant population is surging the popularity of Soccer and its only going to continue to grow in this country.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by ZeDgE

You realize that 21k in Van is pretty much a sell out. Same for Toronto. and Montreal when they move to their permanent home.

<snip>

Most MLS stadiums are around 20k

OK, thays great, but don't say this then.

Originally Posted by Zedge

pro baseball team in this country which can barely muster 25k attendance, and what happened to the other team if its so good? We now have three MLS teams drawing crowds over 50k at some games.

You attempted to make out that baseball struggles to barely draw in 25,000 people and that soccer blows that number out of the water, but now you admit that the stadiums that the Canadian MLS teams play out of are not even capable of holding that number of people.

Originally Posted by Zedge

Calgary with a decent stadium could draw 20k for an MLS team if we tried.

I think that would be really hard to do in this city, we are not much of a soccer city compared to any of the other cities that actually have a MLS team and our population compared to those cities is alot lower.

Originally Posted by Zedge

Better than baseball, how many teams have we had? 3, 4? Who could barely muster a couple thousand, usually hundreds.

We have never had a major league team. The Cannon's did ok when they were here when I was young, I went to afew of their games and they sold out back then (25-30 years ago) at times. But minor league second teir sports teams never do all that well as far as fan support goes. People want to watch the top pros, not the second teir for the most part unless they are diehard fans. I would go watch the occasional pro baseball game if we had a major league team, I would not bother going to watch the Vipers.

Originally Posted by Zedge

And they have a proper stadium, unlike the pathetic attempts we have had at soccer in this city, such a bloody waste.

Perhaps a waste of "potential", but if they build a stadium for what, $100,000,000 and the team fails to catch on, if you are wrong, then it is not a waste of potential, it is a waste of that $100,000,000 which we could build 4 more bridges with!

Originally Posted by Zedge

And regarding numbers..show me some. Where are all these baseball games happening with 20k or more all over Canada?

Where the only major league pro team we have is. The only other team we had was in Montreal and that place is a whole other beast that barely supports any of their teams in any sport.

TBH, I think BOTH pro soccer and pro baseball would be a hard sell in this city due to our population and the interest in either sport the average person in this city has. I know alot of people who are diehard fans of soccer and go to the pubs to watch the league play, but I have also been in those pubs and seen how many people cram into the places to watch those games. It is not exactly playoff hockey numbers of people or Grey Cup/Superbowl numbers going to watch pro playoff soccer. Even the number of people who truly watch the World Cup is a drop in the bucket compared to hockey playoffs or a playoff football match.

My comment was that I think Baseball would do better then Soccer at the pro level as far as getting fans into the seats and getting people to watch the games on TV, but I think neither one would do well enough to support a team in this city at this time.

[nick.flood]

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