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  #41  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2009, 10:59 PM
Neil Neil is offline
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Some things I didn't mention before...

In the presentation they touched on the Walk To Work tax incentive, and pointed out that a 1.25% tax break on purchase price would be worth $12,500 to $17,500.

I think that suggests the purchase prices would be in a range from $200,000 to $280,000

Somebody said they talked to the designers? There weren't any at our session.

In attendance was the appointed architect from chamberlain-online:
http://www.chamberlain-online.com/contact.htm

and some young sales reps from here:
http://www.pboline.com/

The sales reps seemed to only have cursory info, shifting questions over to the architect.

It's scary that the architect firm has such a low quality web site graphics, but they do have a nice portfolio of slick projects so maybe it's just their web dept that is weak.

There were a couple of well dressed people kind of hovering at the back that I suppose could have been owner-investors.

My instinct is that the hotel is a done deal and the residential tower is more of a speculation at this point. I got the feeling that the team was excited at the prospect of a fresh market for a formula that has run dry in other cities.

In other cities they've had lineups for >$250,000 shoebox sized condos, with buyers purchasing one to live in and one as investment. But I'm not sure this market is the same.

Perhaps if they do something dramatic like price units below $150,000 they'll get some fast action.

But in the center of Regina they'll be selling against re-sale units in Victoria Place, TD building and Hamilton building. And against new units in Canterbury, Evans Court and Leader Building. Then there are the constant development options springing up in the suburbs and other projects of a dozen spots here and a dozen there.

With a lot of supply coming on at the same time, things could get really competitive price-wise.
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  #42  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2009, 11:33 PM
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Nathan Nathan is offline
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Originally Posted by Neil View Post
Some things I didn't mention before...

In the presentation they touched on the Walk To Work tax incentive, and pointed out that a 1.25% tax break on purchase price would be worth $12,500 to $17,500.

I think that suggests the purchase prices would be in a range from $200,000 to $280,000

Somebody said they talked to the designers? There weren't any at our session.

In attendance was the appointed architect from chamberlain-online:
http://www.chamberlain-online.com/contact.htm

and some young sales reps from here:
http://www.pboline.com/

The sales reps seemed to only have cursory info, shifting questions over to the architect.

It's scary that the architect firm has such a low quality web site graphics, but they do have a nice portfolio of slick projects so maybe it's just their web dept that is weak.

There were a couple of well dressed people kind of hovering at the back that I suppose could have been owner-investors.

My instinct is that the hotel is a done deal and the residential tower is more of a speculation at this point. I got the feeling that the team was excited at the prospect of a fresh market for a formula that has run dry in other cities.

In other cities they've had lineups for >$250,000 shoebox sized condos, with buyers purchasing one to live in and one as investment. But I'm not sure this market is the same.

Perhaps if they do something dramatic like price units below $150,000 they'll get some fast action.

But in the center of Regina they'll be selling against re-sale units in Victoria Place, TD building and Hamilton building. And against new units in Canterbury, Evans Court and Leader Building. Then there are the constant development options springing up in the suburbs and other projects of a dozen spots here and a dozen there.

With a lot of supply coming on at the same time, things could get really competitive price-wise.
I really don't think they would price below 150,000 as anyone who bought that would likely be able to turn around and resell it for a profit very quickly. 150,000 would be a bit underpriced in my opinion... but the 200,000 area would be good I think. As a recent university graduate who's just starting out, something in the 200,000 area, would be great downtown... We will see though I guess. Just have to keep my fingers crossed.

Also, I took a look at the architects site... Look in the mixed-use section the fourth photo in, it's almost exactly the picture that was released regarding this project except that the hotel portion looks a little different. So maybe that was a bit of a stock photo type thing of a possibility and we might see something slightly different.
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  #43  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2009, 4:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Neil View Post
Some things I didn't mention before...

In the presentation they touched on the Walk To Work tax incentive, and pointed out that a 1.25% tax break on purchase price would be worth $12,500 to $17,500.

I think that suggests the purchase prices would be in a range from $200,000 to $280,000
Not sure how you calculated that incentive. Isn't it just a 5 year tax exemption. $2500/year would be worth $12,500? If they are building this to the specs they are suggesting, you should expect the prices to be near $400/square foot for the smallet units.
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  #44  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2009, 6:15 PM
timewilltell timewilltell is offline
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chamberlain construction

Last edited by timewilltell; Mar 21, 2010 at 9:02 PM.
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  #45  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2009, 5:24 PM
Neil Neil is offline
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Not sure how you calculated that incentive. Isn't it just a 5 year tax exemption. $2500/year would be worth $12,500? If they are building this to the specs they are suggesting, you should expect the prices to be near $400/square foot for the smallet units.
Here's how I reverse calculated their numbers to determine what they think the expected purchase price range would be:

Purchase price $200,000
Incentive @ 1.25% = $2,500
Incentive for 5 years = 5 x $2,500 = $12,500

Purchase price $280,000
Incentive @ 1.25% = $3,500
Incentive for 5 years = 5 x $3,500 = $17,500
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  #46  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2009, 5:25 PM
Neil Neil is offline
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chamberlain construction services provide a full range of construction services under various contractual agreements , incuuding DESIGN BUILD , general contracting , FAST TRACK PROJECT DELIVERY the latter says it all, who knows maybe it will be higher than 25 floors
Right on, every company should add that to their website, then all projects would speed up
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  #47  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2009, 5:37 PM
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I really don't think they would price below 150,000 as anyone who bought that would likely be able to turn around and resell it for a profit very quickly. 150,000 would be a bit underpriced in my opinion... but the 200,000 area would be good I think. As a recent university graduate who's just starting out, something in the 200,000 area, would be great downtown... We will see though I guess. Just have to keep my fingers crossed.
There have been numerous downtown condos in the low 200,000's that have been on the market through 2009.... several have gone to rental due to lack of buyer interest however. These are units with considerably more area than the 500-800 sq foot range also.

It suggests that getting above $200k for downtown condo is a tough sell. And with so many extra units flooding the buyer's attention, it doesn't bode well for selling 25 floors worth of units at $280k each.

However below $150,000 starts to become more tempting. As you prove, there's a certain price that attracts speculators. This is the EXACT model that's been used to develop high rise condo towers in other Canadian cities.... get the buyers on the hook for 2 or more units. That's how you sell the high number of units.

So if they start out selling at 150k and get strong interest, they can always change the price as the units start to sell out. It always looks better for a project to start off with a bang with limited time/units for pre-sale at the lower price. Doing it the other way doesn't work... start out at $280k, get no sales, then be seen slashing prices later on. Buyers don't feel any urgency, they worry about buying on speculation, and everyone wants to bargain hunt. At $150k people would be worried about whether or not they'd get the unit(s) they want or have limited selection.
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  #48  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2009, 7:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Neil View Post
There have been numerous downtown condos in the low 200,000's that have been on the market through 2009.... several have gone to rental due to lack of buyer interest however. These are units with considerably more area than the 500-800 sq foot range also.

It suggests that getting above $200k for downtown condo is a tough sell. And with so many extra units flooding the buyer's attention, it doesn't bode well for selling 25 floors worth of units at $280k each.

However below $150,000 starts to become more tempting. As you prove, there's a certain price that attracts speculators. This is the EXACT model that's been used to develop high rise condo towers in other Canadian cities.... get the buyers on the hook for 2 or more units. That's how you sell the high number of units.

So if they start out selling at 150k and get strong interest, they can always change the price as the units start to sell out. It always looks better for a project to start off with a bang with limited time/units for pre-sale at the lower price. Doing it the other way doesn't work... start out at $280k, get no sales, then be seen slashing prices later on. Buyers don't feel any urgency, they worry about buying on speculation, and everyone wants to bargain hunt. At $150k people would be worried about whether or not they'd get the unit(s) they want or have limited selection.
I understand what you are saying and it does definitely make sense, but I just have a hard time believing they would set the price-point that low off the start. I suppose it's more of a "too good to be true" belief on my part. I've wanted to live downtown for a long time now... and now that I'm done university and starting working life, this is coming along at about the right time for me to have a bit of a down payment saved up, and something that affordable at this time, in the area I want is sort of crazy. Here's to hoping though.
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  #49  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2009, 3:38 PM
Neil Neil is offline
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I understand what you are saying and it does definitely make sense, but I just have a hard time believing they would set the price-point that low off the start. I suppose it's more of a "too good to be true" belief on my part. I've wanted to live downtown for a long time now... and now that I'm done university and starting working life, this is coming along at about the right time for me to have a bit of a down payment saved up, and something that affordable at this time, in the area I want is sort of crazy. Here's to hoping though.
The model they seem to be following is the one from larger cities where buyers are enticed to get in early and buy multiple units in the hope of flipping one, renting one out, and using the profits to keep one. It's a model that worked for some buyers, but is quite risky and has since gone sour in many places.

They probably see Regina as fertile ground to work that same model. They seemed like a lot of their knowledge about the city and market was gleaned from statistics or googling which doesn't always tell you the true character or history of things.

If you are 'in the market' so to speak, you're a good sample point. How much would you be willing to pay for a 1+1 unit that's say 750 sq ft? (Generally shouldn't be more than 3x your income.) Also how much per month would you be able to devote to total living cost (mortgage, tax, utils, maintenance, insurance)
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  #50  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2009, 1:25 AM
timewilltell timewilltell is offline
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give the developers a chance please
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  #51  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2009, 1:52 AM
Devon Devon is offline
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give the developers a chance please
yes. as long as this project happens and succeeds, that`s all I want right now. It will most definately spark more interest in our downtown making the whole city more desirable. Upward spiral if you must.
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  #52  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2009, 2:31 AM
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yes. as long as this project happens and succeeds, that`s all I want right now. It will most definately spark more interest in our downtown making the whole city more desirable. Upward spiral if you must.
Why do you think it won't succeed? Has there been any indication from the city or the builder that it won't go through?

I was at the meeting and they said they are building it. I do realize that it is possible to walk away from a project like this, but at this point I have absolutely no reason to think that it won't be built.

So why live life with a negative attitude?
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  #53  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2009, 2:51 AM
Devon Devon is offline
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Why do you think it won't succeed? Has there been any indication from the city or the builder that it won't go through?

I was at the meeting and they said they are building it. I do realize that it is possible to walk away from a project like this, but at this point I have absolutely no reason to think that it won't be built.

So why live life with a negative attitude?
By succeeding I was talking about the condos selling well. I have a really positive attitude towards this project and pretty much any project happening in this city...I want nothing more than for this city to grow and become a city that everyone wants to visit.

If you like sneakers theres a new shop called Old Souls on 13th avenue where Morning Glory tattoos was.

Another thing, does anyone know if there are any plans on some improvements in the Old Warehouse District happening anytime in the nearish future? I have read on the community website that there were plans/ideas on things like a green boulevard, gateways to the District and more streetscaping and greenspaces. Would love to see some of that happening.
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  #54  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2009, 7:00 PM
Neil Neil is offline
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We attended and my gut impression is that the hotel is a definite go and the condos will only happen now if there's sufficient demand in the form of hard sales.

Please note that is not what was said to us, just my own impression of the situation.

In today's news there is another story about Bloor street condos where early discount sales to agents sparked a near riot in the lineups.

That's how developers generate hype, with early low pricing that people think will rise. They don't start high and then lower prices to meet the buyers and finish selling, at least not publicly. They start low and make people think they are better to put down a deposit now than to wait. There's always time later to discount the last few undesirable units if it comes to that. Those ones can be the last to get finished or serve as hotel overflow.

I'm not saying whether it's proper or smarter, it just seems to be the model for how projects like these get sold in Canada.

I think if they start at $150k they could get some hype, but if they start at $250k it's going to be so much harder. Maybe at $200k I could see them getting some interest but not the big bang they would be seeking.

Who here is buying a unit at $200k?
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  #55  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 4:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Neil View Post
We attended and my gut impression is that the hotel is a definite go and the condos will only happen now if there's sufficient demand in the form of hard sales.

Please note that is not what was said to us, just my own impression of the situation.

In today's news there is another story about Bloor street condos where early discount sales to agents sparked a near riot in the lineups.

That's how developers generate hype, with early low pricing that people think will rise. They don't start high and then lower prices to meet the buyers and finish selling, at least not publicly. They start low and make people think they are better to put down a deposit now than to wait. There's always time later to discount the last few undesirable units if it comes to that. Those ones can be the last to get finished or serve as hotel overflow.

I'm not saying whether it's proper or smarter, it just seems to be the model for how projects like these get sold in Canada.

I think if they start at $150k they could get some hype, but if they start at $250k it's going to be so much harder. Maybe at $200k I could see them getting some interest but not the big bang they would be seeking.

Who here is buying a unit at $200k?
250-300K I think is a reasonable price to pay. Seeing as my 900sf. condo is worth over 220k. Its a wooden framed structure. I also purchased it before markets went up and knowing what Im getting I would never pay current market price. But I would pay more then 300k today for a concrete structure. Did I also read somewhere that the units would be seperated by concrete walls??? If so, I think the current starting price is totally reasonable.
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  #56  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2009, 11:38 PM
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250-300K I think is a reasonable price to pay. Seeing as my 900sf. condo is worth over 220k. Its a wooden framed structure. I also purchased it before markets went up and knowing what Im getting I would never pay current market price. But I would pay more then 300k today for a concrete structure. Did I also read somewhere that the units would be seperated by concrete walls??? If so, I think the current starting price is totally reasonable.
Good points, the all-concrete is a plus.

Not saying this about you, but one thing I find is that there is a big gap between the amount of people who say sure they would buy something and the amount that in the end actually go the bank, get a loan, sign an offer, and actually close the deal. Again, not saying that's you, just a general observation about people and real estate. Would you put a cash deposit on a $300k concrete condo today for example?
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  #57  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2009, 4:01 AM
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Good points, the all-concrete is a plus.

Not saying this about you, but one thing I find is that there is a big gap between the amount of people who say sure they would buy something and the amount that in the end actually go the bank, get a loan, sign an offer, and actually close the deal. Again, not saying that's you, just a general observation about people and real estate. Would you put a cash deposit on a $300k concrete condo today for example?
I know exactly what your saying. At 25, 300k would be above my ceiling. I could see my self at 30 or so seriously looking at a property like that.
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  #58  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2009, 11:44 PM
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I know exactly what your saying. At 25, 300k would be above my ceiling. I could see my self at 30 or so seriously looking at a property like that.
I guess this kind of illustrates the point. You initially said "I would pay more then 300k today for a concrete structure"

But then on second thought, you said you would probably wait 5 years or so before you would consider pulling that trigger.

That's the reality of how these things sell. People think long and hard before parting with big money.

So if they want or need to sell 100 or 200 or however many units, they have to make the price is so tempting that people will snap them up without having those second thoughts.

They can't price them at $300,000, initial sales would be too slow to generate the necessary momentum.
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  #59  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2009, 2:47 AM
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I guess this kind of illustrates the point. You initially said "I would pay more then 300k today for a concrete structure"

But then on second thought, you said you would probably wait 5 years or so before you would consider pulling that trigger.

That's the reality of how these things sell. People think long and hard before parting with big money.

So if they want or need to sell 100 or 200 or however many units, they have to make the price is so tempting that people will snap them up without having those second thoughts.

They can't price them at $300,000, initial sales would be too slow to generate the necessary momentum.
I dont think you understood what I was getting at. What I was saying is there there is good value for the price. There are many wood structure condos out there going for more then 300k. So to pay around 300k for a brand new concrete structure with underground parking, there is amazing value there.

I believe it was also announced on the news talk this morning that they are adding 5 more floors to the condo complex. Did anyone else hear this?
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  #60  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2009, 2:55 AM
Devon Devon is offline
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I was listening to the mayor talk while I was working, but I must have missed that. Word around town is that yes, it will be taller than originally planned. Maybe even Sasks next tallest? Until that Hills tower gets announced haha
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